more player drama

[fredtoast]

(10-18-2020, 02:52 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: He was the highest ranked Bengals defender LAST WEEK!!!!! There's nothing funny about it. Truth is a painful son of a ....gun.

PFF individual player rankings are a joke.

[RunKijanaRun]

Am I the only one completely clueless as to what we’re passionately discussing here?

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-18-2020, 10:59 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: 4 posts in here and we’ve broke him.

Bengalized!

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-16-2020, 03:26 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Apparently, Sims played well-enough that he will start outside, Alexander will be back and start in the slot and Phillips will be demoted.

But that's just speculation on Twitter's part.

Starting Sims over Phillips would be a huge mistake, IMHO.  If this is the case, they are blatantly avoiding playing him so they don't have to PAY him as I believe he is a FA after this season.  Of course, as you stated, this is all twitter speculation, but if this turns out to be true, I will completely give up on this team.  There is no way he will sign here for less just because you didn't play him a lot.  He has been better than Dre in every phase of the game and with what you are paying Waynes already, Phillips might be the logical choice if you can't afford to sign WJIII. 

[fredtoast]

(10-18-2020, 03:24 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Don't take this as me agreeing with the guy you quoted, but there admittedly is more than just Toeaina (interesting dug up name, though). I'm sure there's a list like this for all teams. From just players added to the Bengals in '10-'15...

Evan Mathis was wasted for 3 years here before going on to be a 2x Pro Bowl, 1x All-Pro, and a SB Winner.
Clinton McDonald did nothing in a year (2 solo tackles) with the Bengals and went on to have 3 different 5.0+ sack seasons at DT and won a SB.
Dan Skuta left and got a 5 sack season with the 49ers.
Margus Hunt was terrible here but had a 5 sack season with the Colts.
Cobi Hamilton couldn't record a catch here over a couple years but put up 1 thoroughly mediocre year for the Steelers.
Cedric Ogbuehi went from pure dumpster fire with the Bengals to mediocre last year. Enough that the Seahawks offered him 1yr/$2.3m.

Evan Mathis had been cut by two teams in two years when the Bengals signed him.  He started in front of Livings in 2009 until he went down with injury.  In 2010 he was a fat out-of-shape slob who did not deserve to win.  there was tons of film on him yet he had to sign a league minimum contract.  He got back in shape and played great but the Bengal played him when he deserved to play here.

Hunt was a 3-4 DE who fit better with the Colts, but he still just had one decent season.  He did not deserve any more playing time with the 
Bengals because of the other players we had at DE.

Skuta, Hamilton, and Ogbuehi were never any better than average for a season or two with another team.

McDonald is probably thre only player who was actually a good player we let walk.

But compare that to the what the Bengals got out of guys who had been written off by their previous teams like Cedric Benson, Reggie Nelson, Richie Braham, Wallace Gilberry, Bobbie Williams, Kyle Cook, Terence Newman, and Dhani Jones

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-16-2020, 06:02 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I really hate it that players put this stuff on social media now.  It just seems so petty.

Do I understand that these guys want to play and are frustrated?  Of course.  Does sharing this with the world help the situation, or anyone involved?  Not one bit.

I mean, seriously.  What does this accomplish?  What benefit is there in sharing this with the masses?  Will it improve your chances at playing?  Will it help you secure more money when your contract is up?

It's one thing when a mic is shoved in your face, and you expected to react and answer questions.  But it's another thing entirely to go out of your way to cry on the internet like a little *****.

And if I'm one of these guys getting time ahead of these two, what am I thinking?  Does this help strengthen the relationships in the position group?  What about being the part of a team?  Why not just keep your mouth shut out of respect for your teammates.

Unfortunately, this is what happens when you lose.  These guys would never have the balls to say this if we were winning, because it would look even more stupid than it already does.  But when you're 3-17-1 over the last 21 games, it's going to open the flood gates.

Taylor better get some wins here, and soon.  These last few weeks have shined some light on some behind the scenes stuff that is not good.  And I fear it's just going to get worse.

While I agree that athletes have become more and more entitled (and is starts earlier and earlier), if he is making decisions based on future financial implications and not who best helps the team win, then it is all over.  They will NEVER be competitive and no one will want to play for this team.  Again, pure speculation at this point, but we will see what happens moving forward.  If you keep rolling out the likes of Jordan and Redmond (I will give him a few weeks pass as he just came up) and you leave Adeniji on the bench, don't talk to me about doing everything you can to help the team win and sit a guy like Phillips.  Phillips is probably the defensive MVP right now if not for Bates.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-18-2020, 11:26 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Starting Sims over Phillips would be a huge mistake, IMHO.  If this is the case, they are blatantly avoiding playing him so they don't have to PAY him as I believe he is a FA after this season.  Of course, as you stated, this is all twitter speculation, but if this turns out to be true, I will completely give up on this team.  There is no way he will sign here for less just because you didn't play him a lot.  He has been better than Dre in every phase of the game and with what you are paying Waynes already, Phillips might be the logical choice if you can't afford to sign WJIII. 

Sims has played really well.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-16-2020, 08:26 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: While this may or may not be a bad look for Taylor, it is certainly a bad look for Phillips. I have never been a fan of players taking what should be an internal discussion and making it public via social media or interviews. It shows a real lack of maturity from the player. Take Dunlap for example, he went off and very quickly realized it was the wrong move and apologized and kinda back tracked. Hopefully someone pulls Phillips aside and tells him he was out of line.

Exactly.  Isn't this where the winning culture/high character guys should be stepping in/up?  If Vonn Bell is a leader, bring your unit together.  I know it might be challenging with Reader out for the year, but again, we are stuck with no leadership on the field.  Burrow will be the leader of the offense (is already) but we have no real leaders out there.  A lot of folks will say it doesn't matter, but when we keep seeing crap like this....

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-16-2020, 09:20 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: I loled when John Ross retweeted it.

But there's probably some truth to Taylor losing the locker room. Everyone from vets to youngsters are making grievances known publicly.

I would've shrugged it off if it stayed with players knee-deep in the Marvin era, but it's extending to players that weren't around as long either.

I didn't see that, but hearing it makes me grind my teeth.  Dude was likely going to get a shot this weekend with Tate down.  You think Burrow likes him doing that crap?  He just guaranteed he won't be a part of the plans moving forward.  Frankly, I am done defending the guy.  I don't care if the coaching staff has no idea how to use you, there is still a MASSIVE paycheck showing up in your account every week and you seem to take that for granted.  Of course, he could easily outrun me, but if I was the QB of that team, I would bytch-slap him and say:  "Not on my unit, assbag".  

[jfkbengals]

(10-18-2020, 11:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Evan Mathis had been cut by two teams in two years when the Bengals signed him.  He started in front of Livings in 2009 until he went down with injury.  In 2010 he was a fat out-of-shape slob who did not deserve to win.  there was tons of film on him yet he had to sign a league minimum contract.  He got back in shape and played great but the Bengal played him when he deserved to play here.

Hunt was a 3-4 DE who fit better with the Colts, but he still just had one decent season.  He did not deserve any more playing time with the 
Bengals because of the other players we had at DE.

Skuta, Hamilton, and Ogbuehi were never any better than average for a season or two with another team.

McDonald is probably thre only player who was actually a good player we let walk.

But compare that to the what the Bengals got out of guys who had been written off by their previous teams like Cedric Benson, Reggie Nelson, Richie Braham, Wallace Gilberry, Bobbie Williams, Kyle Cook, Terence Newman, and Dhani Jones

We didn't let him walk.

We traded him for Kelly Jennings when we were in need for CB depth and had a glut of DT depth.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-18-2020, 09:36 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Taylor seems to be the type that rather lose his way. Rather than having an open mind to try something different and respect others input and possibly win not his way. Which is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.

So, if you're doing something, that you've done for a few years and you believe you know what you're doing--you're going to take other people's advice on how to do it, out of hand, instead of doing it your way? 

No one does that. Most everyone does things the way they want to do them because they believe they're right. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-17-2020, 12:20 AM)BengalsFanRealist2855 Wrote: What do you think bill belichick would do with this o line? Hed be mixing it up and finding other guys and hed get it looking good. I cant even tell you new Englands line right now. He takes low round guys and makes them a good unit. 

Exactly.  I follow them a bit because of Joe Thuney.  He grew up here and I know their family pretty well.  He was on my daughter's first soccer team...haha!  

Thuney has started at center this season, and both guard spots.  They will use him wherever they feel like they need to.  They develop their players and don't hang on to over the hill players that don't equal their cost.  Complete opposite of here, and we wonder why they keep winning and we keep losing. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-18-2020, 11:36 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Sims has played really well.

He made the one INT on a really bad throw, but I think Phillips has done better filling in for Waynes.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-16-2020, 10:01 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: If Zac hasn’t lost the locker room, he’s close to it.  Even bumbling Adam Gase has more wins in the last two years.  Zac is just not an NFL head coach.  He road McVay’s coattails to a job that he didn’t deserve.  His other coaching stints were not impressive, including his OC gig at UC.  Zac’s lack of pull resulted in a thoroughly underwhelming coaching staff.  It’s hard to overcome a bad front office and poor coaching.  Having a bottom three o-line is not helping.  It would be nice to see a no-nonsense type like Zimmer or Bienemy get the next shot.

I think our next HC should be Darrin Simmons.  OC would have to come from outside, potentially a hot college coach?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-18-2020, 12:18 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: He made the one INT on a really bad throw, but I think Phillips has done better filling in for Waynes.  

He’s had a few passes defended, too. He’s been a great under the radar pickup.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-17-2020, 03:43 PM)samhain Wrote: I don't like seeing Phillips getting pissy.  I think we'll need him sooner than later.  When it comes to re-signing Bates and Jackson, Alexander is likely to be the odd man out and Phillips should be able to slide into that role.  

I'm happy with the play of Sims.  I have zero problem with him getting to start if that's what's going on here.  

As for Williams, he and his salary should be purged with the rest of the older Marvin-era holdovers.  

Taylor does seem to have a tough time handling locker-room politics.  He's not a fire-breathing Parcells type, but he's not all that good at being a player's coach, either.  It doesn't seem to go well when he sends messages with his roster moves.  I criticized Marvin for being a player's coach, but at least he was consistent with it.  I have no idea what Taylor is as a playcalller philosophy-wise or as a locker-room manager.

Absolutely.  There is some odd "two camp" dynamic that appears to be forming.  As though the "old guard" doesn't care much for the new guard.  Turner seems to have problems everywhere he goes, but that is who ZT wanted, so he has to live with it.  

This just feels to damn familiar...all the drama, none of the wins.  Typical.  Excuse me while I vomit. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-18-2020, 11:47 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I didn't see that, but hearing it makes me grind my teeth.  Dude was likely going to get a shot this weekend with Tate down.  You think Burrow likes him doing that crap?  He just guaranteed he won't be a part of the plans moving forward.  Frankly, I am done defending the guy.  I don't care if the coaching staff has no idea how to use you, there is still a MASSIVE paycheck showing up in your account every week and you seem to take that for granted.  Of course, he could easily outrun me, but if I was the QB of that team, I would bytch-slap him and say:  "Not on my unit, assbag".  

Got a lot of experience doing that with co-workers?

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-18-2020, 03:24 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Don't take this as me agreeing with the guy you quoted, but there admittedly is more than just Toeaina (interesting dug up name, though). I'm sure there's a list like this for all teams. From just players added to the Bengals in '10-'15...

Evan Mathis was wasted for 3 years here before going on to be a 2x Pro Bowl, 1x All-Pro, and a SB Winner.
Clinton McDonald did nothing in a year (2 solo tackles) with the Bengals and went on to have 3 different 5.0+ sack seasons at DT and won a SB.
Dan Skuta left and got a 5 sack season with the 49ers.
Margus Hunt was terrible here but had a 5 sack season with the Colts.
Cobi Hamilton couldn't record a catch here over a couple years but put up 1 thoroughly mediocre year for the Steelers.
Cedric Ogbuehi went from pure dumpster fire with the Bengals to mediocre last year. Enough that the Seahawks offered him 1yr/$2.3m.

No statistical backing for this what-so-ever, but I still think if they had made Taylor Mays a LB from the get-go, he would have been something.

(Really only Mathis was the big miss from that list. McDonald would have been a nice player to have around, too.)
- - - - - - - -

Earlier back a big one is, you can't help but look at 2004 30-year-old Corey Dillon and wonder what his career could have been like on a better team.

I do wonder if we'll look back and think of AJ Green in the same way 10-15 years from now.

Villenueva is a starting tackle for an undefeated team.  Clinton McDonald had a very nice career with Seatte.  There are plenty of examples, but to be fair, other than the Pats, most teams are guilty of this to some extent.  They either make their minds up on a player too early, or just aren't the right personnel fit.  

[Sled21]

(10-17-2020, 04:46 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Ironic that Taylor hasnt benched Bobby Hart or Michael Jordan yet.
Those 2'have performed as poorly as some of these vets that ZT has benched.
You have to.be consistant across the board when.sit guys down. 

You have to have someone better step up and take the spot. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-18-2020, 12:18 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: He made the one INT on a really bad throw, but I think Phillips has done better filling in for Waynes.  

Phillips has def been better.

Phillips and Sims both have 2 pass break ups but Phillips hasn't given up a TD (or gotten an int while Sims has 1) while giving up a quarterback rating of 74.6 compared to Sims 105.7. Sims has given up 2 TDs. 

Phillips has 317 snaps while Sims has 128.