A PASSIONATE Dislike for ZT

[WhodeyRay]

The guy just has a very punchable face. The arrogance on top of his puchable face makes me want to roundhouse him right in the suck hole.

[muskiesfan]

(10-19-2020, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am too mature to let a coaches incompetence become a personal issue.

He may suck as a coach, but I don't have any opinion on him personally.

If anyone here was competent to coach at the NFL level I am sure they would be doing it.  What I generally see is a bunch of fans who are brilliant when given the gift of hindsight.  They brag about what great decisions they would have made in the draft, but never mention all the bust that they also wanted.  They talk about what trades they would have made even though they have no idea if another team was willing to take the deal.  they talk about what great players they would have signed in free agency without knowing if the player was even interested in coming here.  And, again, they never mention all the guys they wanted to sign who ended up being busts.  They always know what play would have worked when one Zac calls fails, but for some reason I have NEVER seen a single one of them complain about a play that worked and brag about what they would have done instead.  They complain about giving contracts to older players but they also complain when we DON'T give contracts to older players that they wanted to keep.
They always want to bench the starters because the players on the bench are better, but when the guys that were on the bench suck they complain about them also.

The fact is that it is very hard to win in the NFL.  Every year about half of the teams have a losing record.  There are a LOT more coaches and GMs that get a chance and fail than succeed.  Since coaching jobs in the NFL depend on winning I am pretty sure all the head coaches try as hard as they can to win and play the guys they think will help them win.  Just because they make wrong decisions does not mean they are bad people that I should hate on a personal level.  I think it is childish to do that.

This holds true for most organizations. The Bengals are a class all their own. I guarantee that I couldn't be that much worse of a GM than Mike Brown. If given 30 years, I cost post a losing record and not win a single playoff game. I can guarantee that. Who knows, I might accidentally win a few more games than Brown has. Even I didn't, he hasn't set the bar very high.

As for Taylor, 3-18-1 isn't promising. I don't feel good about the team, progress, or anything. If I were head coach, maybe I'd be 0-22. However, that's not a whole lot worse compared to Taylor. If he were 7-15, 8-14, or somewhere around there, I could get the argument that I'm just a stupid fan. Taylor isn't doing anything to make the team better, he's defending bum coaches, he's defending bum players, and it's getting really old really fast.

[impactplaya]

(10-19-2020, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am too mature to let a coaches incompetence become a personal issue.

He may suck as a coach, but I don't have any opinion on him personally.

If anyone here was competent to coach at the NFL level I am sure they would be doing it.  What I generally see is a bunch of fans who are brilliant when given the gift of hindsight.  They brag about what great decisions they would have made in the draft, but never mention all the bust that they also wanted.  They talk about what trades they would have made even though they have no idea if another team was willing to take the deal.  they talk about what great players they would have signed in free agency without knowing if the player was even interested in coming here.  And, again, they never mention all the guys they wanted to sign who ended up being busts.  They always know what play would have worked when one Zac calls fails, but for some reason I have NEVER seen a single one of them complain about a play that worked and brag about what they would have done instead.  They complain about giving contracts to older players but they also complain when we DON'T give contracts to older players that they wanted to keep.
They always want to bench the starters because the players on the bench are better, but when the guys that were on the bench suck they complain about them also.

The fact is that it is very hard to win in the NFL.  Every year about half of the teams have a losing record.  There are a LOT more coaches and GMs that get a chance and fail than succeed.  Since coaching jobs in the NFL depend on winning I am pretty sure all the head coaches try as hard as they can to win and play the guys they think will help them win.  Just because they make wrong decisions does not mean they are bad people that I should hate on a personal level.  I think it is childish to do that.

It's not hard to.win.if your organization has a blueprint for 
Winning more than you lose. 
Thats to.the film room custodian all.the way up.to.the owner 
And in between. 
Some franchises have a very.sound plan thats tried and  true 
When it comes to winning. 
Ravens, Steelers, Chiefs, Pats, Packers, Seahawks.
Then you have  franchises like the Jets and Bengals who are lead by ownerships that refuse.to.change their formulas 
For losing. That refuse to look.around the league and see how winning is achieved. 
Zac Taylor is much the Brown ownership. 
Too stupid to realize that whats not working isnt working. 

[fredtoast]

(10-19-2020, 02:05 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'll admit ZT is a better NFL HC than I would be.  With that being said, with this logic a man would have to sell a billion records before he can scoff at Justin Bieber, so ehh.

ZT isn't competing with us, he's competing with the rest of the NFL's head coaches and he's not hanging with them.

I don't think you will find posts from me supporting Taylor.  I say we need to give him the rest of the season, but I have seen nothing so far that makes me want him back next year.

I was not that impressed when we first hired him and everyone accused me of "defending Marvin".  But even then I was willing to give him a fair chance.  I was actually more concerned about the staff he brought in than Zac himself.

My main point is that I don't make it personal.  If he is not a good coach that does not mean that I have to dislike him on a personal level.  

[fredtoast]

(10-19-2020, 02:33 PM)muskiesfan Wrote:  Taylor isn't doing anything to make the team better, he's defending bum coaches, he's defending bum players, and it's getting really old really fast.

What would you do if you were head coach?

Would calling his team garbage result in better play on the field?

[fredtoast]

(10-19-2020, 02:40 PM)impactplaya Wrote: It's not hard to.win

Then. Why do.  Only 15. Of the NFL teams. have a winning record.  Right. Now?

[WeezyBengal]

(10-19-2020, 01:58 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: It’s unearned confidence.

He tells us every week, don’t worry I have a plan, we’re building a winning culture, blah blah blah. Problem is, there is nothing in his history before the Bengals or during his time here that suggests he has any ability to do any of the things required to rebuild and run an NFL team.

This. This is what bothers me. I couldn't but my finer on it but you nailed it. It's almost an arrogance when its not deserved. Marvin was arrogant, but at least he had some traces of success. 

[Bengalitis]

Zac is inexperienced to be a HC and the experience he does have does not have an impressive content. I was not happy with the choice as this team needed someone with a bonafide experience HC. Then his difficulty getting coaches, and then to top it off, the his coaches did not help his cause, more buddies than reputable coaches. Fasf forwad to now after drafting one of the best QBs that has come out of college ever and we are flopping horribly. The only difference i see now from last season is that the horrible coaching is standing out more and more than the player quality.

[*Nately120*]

(10-19-2020, 04:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think you will find posts from me supporting Taylor.  I say we need to give him the rest of the season, but I have seen nothing so far that makes me want him back next year.

I was not that impressed when we first hired him and everyone accused me of "defending Marvin".  But even then I was willing to give him a fair chance.  I was actually more concerned about the staff he brought in than Zac himself.

My main point is that I don't make it personal.  If he is not a good coach that does not mean that I have to dislike him on a personal level.  

We agree on the basis of things here.  I don't HATE Taylor and I don't think anyone who HATES him as a coach legitimately hates him...it's just message board talk.

I try to keep an even hand for the most part.  I took some heat this offseason for understand why the media would be wary of Burrow coming here and lo and behold weeks into the season the message board is full of posts about how this crappy organization is wrecking Burrow.

[thompson19osu]

(10-19-2020, 12:49 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Lets see throws established veterans under the bus, Doesnt play best personnel, wastes timeouts, Goes for moral victories to avoid shutouts, 3rd and 1 might as well be 3rd and 15, Doesn't use QB sneak nearly enough when you have perfect QB to run it, Shows no faith in young QB by kicking fieldgoals on 4th and 1, Dooesnt win road games, obviously not coaching on prevent defense. Anyone want to add be my guest

This sums it up for me. Nailed it. The part that gets me is 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 2 I feel like is a mile long. 3rd and 10 for the Colts from the 17....easy touchdown no problem. 3rd and 1 for the Bengals...can’t convert. I love how the announcers even called out the shitty playcalling there.

[JSR18]

(10-19-2020, 04:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think you will find posts from me supporting Taylor.  I say we need to give him the rest of the season, but I have seen nothing so far that makes me want him back next year.

I was not that impressed when we first hired him and everyone accused me of "defending Marvin".  But even then I was willing to give him a fair chance.  I was actually more concerned about the staff he brought in than Zac himself.

My main point is that I don't make it personal.  If he is not a good coach that does not mean that I have to dislike him on a personal level.  

Why give him the rest of the season? Do you see him becoming a better play-caller? Do you see him figuring out how to not be out coached?

Why not appoint an interim (Simmons) and start evaluating what it going to take to get better (all over) for next year..


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[fredtoast]

(10-19-2020, 06:35 PM)JSR18 Wrote: Why give him the rest of the season? Do you see him becoming a better play-caller? Do you see him figuring out how to not be out coached?

I saw him fix the run game in the middle of last season.

I just think you have to give a first time head coach at least 2 full seasons.

Everyone complains about his play calling, but their only gripe seems to be that the plays don't work.  So is the problem really play calling or is it lack of talent.  If it is lack of talent there is not  alot play calling can do to fix that.

(10-19-2020, 06:35 PM)JSR18 Wrote: Why not appoint an interim (Simmons) and start evaluating what it going to take to get better (all over) for next year..

How exactly does an interim coach evaluate anything more than Zac can?

We can't bring in a whole new staff midseason, and I don't see any great offensive or defensive minds on our current staff.  I would not mind letting Simmons get a shot a HC, but only if he brings in a new DC and OC and there is no one available on the street to fill those roles right now.

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-19-2020, 06:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Everyone complains about his play calling, but their only gripe seems to be that the plays don't work.

That seems like a pretty legitimate gripe.

[Mobster]

Looks like the second graders have taken over the board. Go to bed. Its past your bedtime.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

I’m not angry at Zac Taylor. He didn’t hire himself, did he?

[hoosierbengal]

There is obviously so much we don’t see but if you are coach at any level you have to have the respect of the athletes at your level that you know what you are doing. You can’t fake it. At this point in their careers they have been coached by all types of coaches. I suspect they can sniff out a pretender pretty quick. I have a feeling that is what we are seeing with ZT. I have coached at an amateur level and that even happens there as well. I could sense it when we would bring in a new established player that was considered one of the best and it’s kind of a test you go through as a coach. Hard to explain but it has to be that times 1000 at the professional level. I am sure those of you that have college experience as a player have had coaches you had no faith in even if you thought they were Good dudes. From the outside it feels like this with ZT but I could be way off.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-19-2020, 06:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I saw him fix the run game in the middle of last season.

But did you?

Because I pointed out in the offseason that the second half of the schedule was SIGNIFICANTLY easier than the first half. The only two teams that were any good absolutely stomped the Bengals. It's not particularly impressive if you run for 150-170 yards in a 3+ score loss and the Browns were in absolute coaching/locker room collapse when they played them.

Now sure enough here's the Bengals with the 24th overall and 30th in YPC rushing offense in 2020. That doesn't sound fixed.

[chopperbobby]

Not time to press the panic button yet. Zack said so. They will fix this and we will be on the band wagon soon. So stop pressing the dam panic button.

In Mike and Zack we trust, because there is no other choice.

[bengaloo]

Im not really even blaming Zac as much for the loss. It was definitely a team effort - Randy missing, Mixon's drop, AJs drop, Tee looking back, etc, etc could have been game winning plays. Certainly Zac made a couple calls that seemed pretty damn questionable, but it was going soft on D that gets the game ball for me. I think Lou has really began to turn our D around, but he should've kept calling more aggressive even after the lead. I like what Lou has done so far this year, and I think he drafted and brought in good players, but he's got to learn from that game or else he'll be gone soon. Dont back off into prevent or that deep soft zone crap just because we have a lead. Ive watched us blow so many games over the years because of that garbage. I hope he never does that again. In fact if we have a lead I would do what the Ravens do and blitz and play even more aggressive.

[JSR18]

(10-19-2020, 06:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I saw him fix the run game in the middle of last season.   Agreed.

I just think you have to give a first time head coach at least 2 full seasons.  Only if there is an upward trend, but there isn't

Everyone complains about his play calling, but their only gripe seems to be that the plays don't work.  So is the problem really play calling or is it lack of talent.  If it is lack of talent there is not  alot play calling can do to fix that.   Evaluating player talent is what I meant, should've made it plainer.



How exactly does an interim coach evaluate anything more than Zac can?  Interim coach (Simmons) with odds being made HC at season's end could be a better talent evaluator simply because he's been at it longer in the NFL, but also being a Special Teams Coordinator he used to evaluating All players for his Special Teams.

We can't bring in a whole new staff midseason, and I don't see any great offensive or defensive minds on our current staff.  I would not mind letting Simmons get a shot a HC, but only if he brings in a new DC and OC and there is no one available on the street to fill those roles right now.  Agreed. Simmons HC. Hue as OC and Kerry Coombs as DC.