Atkins and Dunlap Frustrated with Being Phased Out

[jfkbengals]

(10-19-2020, 09:30 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: How many #1 overall picks have gone to first year head coaches though, thus elimatiing someone like Taylor from the conversation?  (I'm guessing a lot of them)

It's much easier to say this coach deserves a 2nd year with this QB when it's his 2nd year on the job.  What you're calling for is a 3rd year total, 2nd with QB.

Most coaches don't survive a season where it results in a 1 pick, so I'm assuming an apples to apples comparison is going to be hard to find.

Not what I'm calling for, what I expect to happen.  And what I considered the norm.  But as we can see from other posts, I was off about that being the norm.

[Wes Mantooth]

Jaimis Winston was drafted in 2015. Lovie Smith was fired after the end of the season.

Jamarcus Russell was drafted in 2007. Lane Kiffin was fired after the end of the season.

I suspect I can find more (these were the first two I thought of), but with these examples + the others listed, I think the idea that a head coach should keep his job, just because they recently drafted a QB #1, isn't all an accurate statement.

[*bfine32*]

(10-19-2020, 09:30 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Mitch Trubisky was #2 overall but the 1st QB taken.  Jim Fox got a single year with him before he got the boot.

Lovie Smith got fired after Winston's rookie year

Lane Kiffin got fired during Jamarcus Russel's second year

Rams fired Spagnuolololo after Bradford's second year

Yeah, I think we're seeing it's not that unusual to fire a HC after one year of getting a QB early. HCs are easier to replace than franchise QBs

[Murdock2420]

Everytime someone commented fire Zach, he actually seemed to get annoyed and mad. Called it bullying

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(10-19-2020, 09:39 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Jaimis Winston was drafted in 2015.  Lovie Smith was fired after the end of the season.

Jamarcus Russell was drafted in 2007.  Lane Kiffin was fired after the end of the season.

I suspect I can find more (these were the first two I thought of), but with these examples + the others listed, I think the idea that a head coach should keep his job, just because they recently drafted a QB #1, isn't all an accurate statement.

I think it's more that HCs who draft and develop a QB who looks like being a franchise QB don't tend to get sacked. If you draft Jamarcus Russell someone's going to get fired.

For all ZT's faults he's actually done a pretty solid job in prepping Burrow, especially during a pandemic without rookie minicamps, pre-season games etc. Remember his background is QB coaching rather than as an OC and so Mike Brown will see Burrow's development as justification for the hire.

[jfkbengals]

(10-19-2020, 09:39 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Jaimis Winston was drafted in 2015.  Lovie Smith was fired after the end of the season.

Jamarcus Russell was drafted in 2007.  Lane Kiffin was fired after the end of the season.

I suspect I can find more (these were the first two I thought of), but with these examples + the others listed, I think the idea that a head coach should keep his job, just because they recently drafted a QB #1, isn't all an accurate statement.

There have been several examples, but this one isn't exactly accurate.  Kiffen was fired during Russel's second season because Russel sucked and Kiffen was refusing to play him.  Remember Davis' statement “I do realize that you did not want us to draft JaMarcus Russel. He is a great player. Get over it and coach this team on the field, that is what you were hired to do. We can win with this team!” (Kiffen wanted to draft Megatron).

[*jason*]

(10-19-2020, 09:58 PM)TJHoushmandzadehs Shiny Shoes Wrote: I think it's more that HCs who draft and develop a QB who looks like being a franchise QB don't tend to get sacked. If you draft Jamarcus Russell someone's going to get fired.

For all ZT's faults he's actually done a pretty solid job in prepping Burrow, especially during a pandemic without rookie minicamps, pre-season games etc. Remember his background is QB coaching rather than as an OC and so Mike Brown will see Burrow's development as justification for the hire.

Joe Burrow wasn't exactly a raw prospect.

[*bfine32*]

(10-19-2020, 09:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, I think we're seeing it's not that unusual to fire a HC after one year of getting a QB early. HCs are easier to replace than franchise QBs

How can we Bengals fans forget Bruce Coslet

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-19-2020, 10:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How can we Bengals fans forget Bruce Coslet

Did you just reply to your own post?

(I didn't even know this was possible.)

[*bfine32*]

(10-19-2020, 10:45 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Did you just reply to your own post?

(I didn't even know this was possible.)

Yes. I was chastising myself for not thinking of Coslet...I'm really the only one I listen to. 

[Housh]

How you gonna phase a dude out for a way worse player?


This shows the coaches are trash

[StoneTheCrow]

So nothing of note was said?

[sandwedge]

(10-19-2020, 03:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Why can't it be both?

I think those complaining about both are mad at the fact that these guys are taking up a large amount of cap space while not being key contributors to the team.

If these guys were not going to be a big part of the plan, they should never have been kept.

Maybe they were part of the plan? Geno was injured, can't blame the coach for taking it easy on him. Dunlap, is just straight up sucking this year. He's lazy and pretty much takes 75% of the plays off.
People ***** when coaches stay with vets that aren't performing and then when they change it up, they *****. Why is that? 

[GreenCornBengal]

(10-19-2020, 11:14 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: So nothing of note was said?

Sounds to me from what people said he was groveling for his job back. Yeeesh. Isn’t he close to some team sack record? He must have his eyes on that.

[sandwedge]

(10-19-2020, 11:09 PM)Housh Wrote: How you gonna phase a dude out for a way worse player?


This shows the coaches are trash

Are seriously suggesting Dumlap is lighting it up? Maybe these young guys need practice and game experience?

[GreenCornBengal]

(10-19-2020, 11:25 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Are seriously suggesting Dumlap is lighting it up? Maybe these young guys need practice and game experience?

Are you suggesting the new guys are tearing it up? Bledsoe isn’t quite a household name yet lol, not as a DE anyways.

[Murdock2420]

For all of those saying fire Zach, keep in mind a new coach could also mean a new QB....

Think Kyler Murray and Kliff Kingsbury. One year after drafting a first round QB the new coach wanted his guy, and picked a new QB.

A new coach may come with a new system and want a guy who he feels fits it better, or is worried that a 2 win season and all the sacks would have made Burrow damaged goods.

Just something to think about.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-19-2020, 11:33 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: For all of those saying fire Zach, keep in mind a new coach could also mean a new QB....

Think Kyler Murray and Kliff Kingsbury. One year after drafting a first round QB the new coach wanted his guy, and picked a new QB.

A new coach may come with a new system and want a guy who he feels fits it better, or is worried that a 2 win season and all the sacks would have made Burrow damaged goods.

Just something to think about.

1. We're not getting Lawrence. He's worse than Burrow anyways.
2. There are 7 teams with worse records than us and that isn't going to change (if anything, we'll be going up).

Give it the **** up.

[Murdock2420]

(10-19-2020, 11:38 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: 1. We're not getting Lawrence. He's worse than Burrow anyways.
2. There are 7 teams with worse records than us and that isn't going to change (if anything, we'll be going up).

Give it the **** up.

Never mentioned him, and trust me with how badly we have mismanaged the career of our latest rookie QB, I actually don't want him to come here and be wasted.

Going up?? How is this team going to go up?? They just gave up a 21 point lead.... if you can't win a game up 21, how are you going to beat anyone left on the schedule with the exception of Washington.

[*pally*]

(10-19-2020, 09:43 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Everytime someone commented fire Zach, he actually seemed to get annoyed and mad. Called it bullying

or was he reacting to all the comments about teammate Bobby Hart?