John Ross wants to be traded

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-20-2020, 11:28 AM)Synric Wrote: Bengals fans hate on Ross but he is one of the best trade candidates on the team with his small contract that the Bengals partly eat. Also has the talent coaches love...

Hope so, if this is the case and someone will give us anything for him, I take it. 

[Whatever]

(10-21-2020, 07:52 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes, get rid of half your team in order to keep the 3-18-1 Offensive Assistant who got rapidly promoted way above his skill/talent level. That's the ticket!

Last time there was this much talk of mutiny on the team, it was because the Bengals wouldn't fire Zampese. Keeping Zampese wasn't the answer then and neither should keeping Taylor be the answer now. Regardless of who the players are, bad coaches are bad.

The issues aren't mutually exclusive.  Taylor isn't a great coach, but the guys doing the complaining aren't that good anymore, either.  You aren't getting anything in trade out of Zac .  You can get something for the malcontents.

The reality is that Marvin had his pecking order and his favorites were going to play regardless of if they produced or not.  They were used to not having to be accountable and now that they are, they can't adapt.  This team won't go anywhere with any coach as long as you have tenured leaders who are resistant to anything that isn't a Jay Gruden based offense or Mike Zimmer based defense.  

[motoarch]

(10-20-2020, 11:22 AM)Trademark Wrote: I know he hasn't lived up to the hype but he hasn't even been given much of a chance this year. Taylor would rather start a bum like Mike Thomas. Guarantee he will go to another team and he will go off. Zac Taylor is destroying this team.

Ross sucks, that why he's not on the field.  Taylor didn't pick this guy.  I'm not say taylor doesn't also suck.  But your logic sucks.
Mike Tomas is better than Ross so yeah he should get more snaps.
If ross want's out well bye.  He's terrible.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-21-2020, 12:34 PM)Whatever Wrote: The issues aren't mutually exclusive.  Taylor isn't a great coach, but the guys doing the complaining aren't that good anymore, either.  You aren't getting anything in trade out of Zac .  You can get something for the malcontents.

The reality is that Marvin had his pecking order and his favorites were going to play regardless of if they produced or not.  They were used to not having to be accountable and now that they are, they can't adapt.  This team won't go anywhere with any coach as long as you have tenured leaders who are resistant to anything that isn't a Jay Gruden based offense or Mike Zimmer based defense.  

Except how do you know if they aren't good anymore if their decline directly coincided with dumpster fire coaches arriving?

Just like how Zimmer could take Tank Johnson, Rey Maualuga, Roy Williams, and Chris Crocker and make a good defense with superior coaching and scheme.... Maybe Taylor and Anarumo are turning lemonade into lemons with vastly inferior coaching and scheme. It isn't like there is an abundance of people thriving under them.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-21-2020, 12:45 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Except how do you know if they aren't good anymore if their decline directly coincided with dumpster fire coaches arriving?

Just like how Zimmer could take Tank Johnson, Rey Maualuga, Roy Williams, and Chris Crocker and make a good defense with superior coaching and scheme.... Maybe Taylor and Anarumo are turning lemonade into lemons with vastly inferior coaching and scheme. It isn't like there is an abundance of people thriving under them.

I think Whatever's argument is these guys have been acting like malcontents on top of sucking it up...

But yeah, the coaching is just terrible, it is DEFINITELY part of it and a reason there is dissention in the first place.

[impactplaya]

(10-21-2020, 12:44 PM)motoarch Wrote: Ross sucks, that why he's not on the field.  Taylor didn't pick this guy.  I'm not say taylor doesn't also suck.  But your logic sucks.
Mike Tomas is better than Ross so yeah he should get more snaps.
If ross want's out well bye.  He's terrible.

Thomas isnt better than Ross. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-21-2020, 12:58 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Thomas isnt better than Ross. 

He is this year...

[motoarch]

(10-21-2020, 12:58 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Thomas isnt better than Ross. 

Yes he is.

See now we've both made cogent and succinct arguments supported evidence and logic.


Oh wait we didn't nevermind.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-21-2020, 12:44 PM)motoarch Wrote: Ross sucks, that why he's not on the field.  Taylor didn't pick this guy.  I'm not say taylor doesn't also suck.  But your logic sucks.
Mike Tomas is better than Ross so yeah he should get more snaps.
If ross want's out well bye.  He's terrible.

Don't agree with that at all except for ST.


Career production (Thomas has been in league a year longer than Ross):
Thomas - 46 games played, 21 receptions, 222 yards, 1 TD
Ross - 27 games played, 51 receptions, 733 yards, 10 TDs

[motoarch]

(10-21-2020, 02:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Don't agree with that at all except for ST.


Career production (Thomas has been in league a year longer than Ross):
Thomas - 46 games played, 21 receptions, 222 yards, 1 TD
Ross - 27 games played, 51 receptions, 733 yards, 10 TDs

I've seen the effort either has made on field.  

I stand by my statement.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Why do we automatically assume a great wide receiver coach from another team couldn't turn John Ross into a beast?  Why do we assume a player's stagnant skills in Cincinnati can't be improved?  Did Dre Kirkpatrick get better with Arizona?  Yes, because he is under Vance Joseph's tutelage now.  Is Rex Burkhead an integral part of the Patriots' offense now?  Of course he is.  Andrew Whitworth is playing better than ever in Los Angeles.  Nick Vigil looks vastly improved with the Chargers.

[Rubekahn29]

(10-21-2020, 02:38 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Why do we automatically assume a great wide receiver coach from another team couldn't turn John Ross into a beast?  Why do we assume a player's stagnant skills in Cincinnati can't be improved?  Did Dre Kirkpatrick get better with Arizona?  Yes, because he is under Vance Joseph's tutelage now.  Is Rex Burkhead an integral part of the Patriots' offense now?  Of course he is.  Andrew Whitworth is playing better than ever in Los Angeles.  Nick Vigil looks vastly improved with the Chargers.

I don't really think Dre K looks better. Only watched him in the Cowboys game and he still got beat a lot, and his interception, he flat out mauled the receiver, so looks the same. Rex Buckhead doesn't look better, he just is used better, but that's not a surprise. Whitworth is playing just as good there as he did here, only noticed more because he's in LA. Haven't really watched Vigil. 

[*Nately120*]

(10-21-2020, 07:52 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes, get rid of half your team in order to keep the 3-18-1 Offensive Assistant who got rapidly promoted way above his skill/talent level. That's the ticket!

Last time there was this much talk of mutiny on the team, it was because the Bengals wouldn't fire Zampese. Keeping Zampese wasn't the answer then and neither should keeping Taylor be the answer now. Regardless of who the players are, bad coaches are bad.

We want players who want to win but we also want players who don't cause a ruckus when we win 3 games out of 22.  Sticky wickett, this. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-21-2020, 02:43 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We want players who want to win but we also want players who don't cause a ruckus when we win 3 games out of 22.  Sticky wickett, this. 

I'd honestly feel worse about the team if they were content with 3-18-1 including 0 wins on the road. Nobody should be content with that because I know Tom Brady/Russell Wilson/Drew Brees/Patrick Mahomes wouldn't be okay with being a loser. Heck, they don't seem particularly pleased if they don't win a SB. The Bengals need that hunger and expectation. Not the "we're 1-4-1 and trending in the right direction" mentality.

[*Nately120*]

(10-21-2020, 02:48 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'd honestly feel worse about the team if they were content with 3-18-1 including 0 wins on the road. Nobody should be content with that because I know Tom Brady/Russell Wilson/Drew Brees/Patrick Mahomes wouldn't be okay with being a loser. Heck, they don't seem particularly pleased if they don't win a SB. The Bengals need that hunger and expectation. Not the "we're 1-4-1 and trending in the right direction" mentality.

I'm disappointed Burrow isn't going crazy and smashing everything in sight. He's good and all, but I hoped he'd be more like a maniacal junkie going through win-withdrawal. 

[*ochocincos*]

(10-21-2020, 02:35 PM)motoarch Wrote: I've seen the effort either has made on field.  

I stand by my statement.

So being better just means effort? Not actual statistical production and usage?
If Thomas was so good, wouldn't someone who is much better with offense like McVay have actually used him in his 4 years with the Rams? There's a reason he was 5th WR on the depth chart.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-21-2020, 02:50 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm disappointed Burrow isn't going crazy and smashing everything in sight. He's good and all, but I hoped he'd be more like a maniacal junkie going through win-withdrawal. 

Just grab a guy by the face mask and scream at him until he was too scared to ever make a mistake again. Then take a big 'ol dump on ZT's play sheet and just run his own damn offense that makes OL blocking pointless and WR's ability to get separation meaningless because he'd extend the play and throw everyone open. I almost feel like I was promised that in the offseason.   

[motoarch]

(10-21-2020, 02:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So being better just means effort? Not actual statistical production and usage?
If Thomas was so good, wouldn't someone who is much better with offense like McVay have actually used him in his 4 years with the Rams? There's a reason he was 5th WR on the depth chart.

Apparently the Rams had 4 better options.

The Bengals don't and Ross sure ain't one of them.

Ross got his chances because either.
A. No better option.
B. The team felt obligated to keep him on the field till it clicked for him based on his draft position.

I don't actually think A is the reason as I think we had a better receiver in Tate sitting behind him last season.

So that leaves B.

The thing is things didn't click and now he's on the bench again where he belongs.

Ross sucks.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-21-2020, 02:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Don't agree with that at all except for ST.


Career production (Thomas has been in league a year longer than Ross):
Thomas - 46 games played, 21 receptions, 222 yards, 1 TD
Ross - 27 games played, 51 receptions, 733 yards, 10 TDs

Yeah, but THIS year Thomas has been better correct?

And you know me, backed up Ross for years taking shit.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-21-2020, 03:08 PM)motoarch Wrote: Apparently the Rams had 4 better options.

The Bengals don't and Ross sure ain't one of them.

Ross got his chances because either.
A. No better option.
B. The team felt obligated to keep him on the field till it clicked for him based on his draft position.

I don't actually think A is the reason as I think we had a better receiver in Tate sitting behind him last season.

So that leaves B.

The thing is things didn't click and now he's on the bench again where he belongs.

Ross sucks.

Bengals don't have 4 better options than Thomas?
I count 4 - Boyd, Higgins, Green, Tate.
5 if you include Ross (which I would).

Personally, I think Thomas is similar to Erickson. Both have low ceilings, but both put in effort. Ross has shown he's far more dynamic than either of those guys has ever shown, but Ross's production comes in spurts due to drops, concentration, injuries, and sometimes effort.

I get why you and others don't like Ross. However, the Bengals will not win games based on the performance of Thomas or Erickson. Ross has the ability to have 100+ yard games at times throughout the year. I don't believe Erickson or Thomas will ever have that kind of game.