'Bengals need to part ways with Carlos Dunlap, Geno Atkins now'

[Sled21]

(10-22-2020, 11:16 AM)fredtoast Wrote: All the current players have seen from Zac are moves like benching Dalton for Finley.  It makes him look clueless at evaluating talent.

After Dalton lost 8 straight games though, right? They needed to see Finley play to evaluate him. They played him, evaluated him, and went back to Dalton. Not really sure how that's clueless....

[fredtoast]

(10-22-2020, 11:40 AM)Sled21 Wrote: After Dalton lost 8 straight games though, right? They needed to see Finley play to evaluate him. They played him, evaluated him, and went back to Dalton. Not really sure how that's clueless....

Good coaches have an idea of how good a player is from watching him practice.  That is why you don't see every coach in the league giving starts to every back up on their bench in order to see how good they are.

[*jason*]

(10-22-2020, 11:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Good coaches have an idea of how good a player is from watching him practice.  That is why you don't see every coach in the league giving starts to every back up on their bench in order to see how good they are.

Or switching up linemen's positions each preseason game. They're already not very good, and now they couldn't even build any sort of cohesion.

[impactplaya]

(10-22-2020, 11:40 AM)Sled21 Wrote: After Dalton lost 8 straight games though, right? They needed to see Finley play to evaluate him. They played him, evaluated him, and went back to Dalton. Not really sure how that's clueless....

I had no.issue with the drafting of a QB last year. 
My issue is that Zac reached on Finely. 
Much like Sample. 
Now between 2 drafts picked in the top 105 the Bengals are 
Getting nothing out of them from 2019. 
Should have weathered it with Dalton. 

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-22-2020, 11:16 AM)fredtoast Wrote: All the current players have seen from Zac are moves like benching Dalton for Finley.  It makes him look clueless at evaluating talent.

Even I can't fault him for this.

The season was over.  They were 0-8.  And they just had invested a 4th round pick in Finley.  In fact that traded up to get him.  Everyone knew at that point it was going to be Andy's last season.  So they needed to see what they had in Finley before going into the offseason. 

We're pretty much guaranteed a top 10 pick at that point.  It makes perfect sense to see if you're most recent QB drafted had anything to build off of, before investing in another QB.

I think the people that look at that move, like Taylor thought Finley immediately gave them a better chance to win than Dalton, are looking at it the wrong way.  That wasn't his motivation.  His motivation was having nothing to lose, and wanting to see the kid play.

Now... if you want to have a talk about why they ever drafted him that high to begin with, I'm all ears.  Because he looked like hot garbage, and someone who either should have been a UDFA or out of the league all together.

[fredtoast]

(10-22-2020, 11:51 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Even I can't fault him for this.

The season was over.  They were 0-8.  And they just had invested a 4th round pick in Finley.  In fact that traded up to get him.  Everyone knew at that point it was going to be Andy's last season.  So they needed to see what they had in Finley before going into the offseason. 

We're pretty much guaranteed a top 10 pick at that point.  It makes perfect sense to see if you're most recent QB drafted had anything to build off of, before investing in another QB.

I think the people that look at that move, like Taylor thought Finley immediately gave them a better chance to win than Dalton, are looking at it the wrong way.  That wasn't his motivation.  His motivation was having nothing to lose, and wanting to see the kid play.

Now... if you want to have a talk about why they ever drafted him that high to begin with, I'm all ears.  Because he looked like hot garbage, and someone who either should have been a UDFA or out of the league all together.

If they were just evaluating Finley then they should have let him start the rest of the season.  Four games is nothing for a rookie QB.  He was barely getting his feet wet.

Instead they had watched Finley in practice all year and thought he might give them a better chance of winning than Dalton.  If they did not care about having the best chance of winning games they would have never returned to Dalton.

I honestly think that move has a lot to do with why so many players are questioning Zac's talent evaluation skills this year.

[Sled21]

(10-22-2020, 11:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Good coaches have an idea of how good a player is from watching him practice.  That is why you don't see every coach in the league giving starts to every back up on their bench in order to see how good they are.

There is a myriad of NFL players who prove the concept that some players play better than they practice, and some players practice better than they play. Have to actually put him in a game to see how he handles pressure. 

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-22-2020, 11:59 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If they were just evaluating Finley then they should have let him start the rest of the season.  Four games is nothing for a rookie QB.  He was barely getting his feet wet.

Instead they had watched Finley in practice all year and thought he might give them a better chance of winning than Dalton.  If they did not care about having the best chance of winning games they would have never returned to Dalton.

I honestly think that move has a lot to do with why so many players are questioning Zac's talent evaluation skills this year.

I think they saw all they needed to see. (He had no shot of taking over the job for 2020)

Again, I don't think they played him because they thought he gave them a better shot at winning.  They played him because winning games was secondary to evaluation at that point.

As far as Dalton being put back in, I think we all know the evalation was over (he failed).  Giving him more games wasn't going to change what was already apparent. (We definitely needed a new QB)

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-22-2020, 12:04 PM)Sled21 Wrote: There is a myriad of NFL players who prove the concept that some players play better than they practice, and some players practice better than they play. Have to actually put him in a game to see how he handles pressure. 

Yup. And I think this applies to QB's more than any other.

Seeing a QB practice is not at all similar to seeing him play in a game.  For one, he's not wearing a red jersey in a game.  Nor is he going up against the same defense every single week.  And leading a huddle and running plays in a practice enviorment isn't at all the same to trying to do these things with 50k+ fans going nuts.

You know who looked like one of the greatest practice QB's of all time?  Jeff George.  You who absolutely sucked in games?  Jeff George.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(10-21-2020, 08:56 PM)jason Wrote: That leaves us needing a DE, DT, and at least 4 O Linemen, maybe a WR... Burrow's rookie contract is basically wasted by the time we sort that all out.

Yep, Tobin has handled this really poorly. They needed to rebuild. By failing to trade away players last year when they were no longer in contention they failed to accumulate enough draft capital to rebuild properly last year and they are set to repeat that mistake again this year.

They will have had just 14 picks over two drafts whilst rebuilding. In contrast they had 11 picks in 2019 alone when they weren't rebuilding and were content to fritter away draft capital trading up for a back-up QB.

[samhain]

(10-21-2020, 05:58 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Here are the numbers if the cuts are made after the season:

Geno Atkins

2021 --- 14.8 mil salary --- 5.2 mil dead cap ---  9.6 mil in cap savings if cut.
2022 --- 16.0 mil salary --- 2.6 mil dead cap --- 13.4 mil in cap savings if cut.

Carlos Dunlap

2021 --- 13.5 mil salary --- 2.2 mil dead cap --- 11.3 mil in cap savings if cut.

Thanks.

I don't see any way they can bring back either, but the Atkins dead cap will be distasteful to ownership.  

[fredtoast]

(10-22-2020, 12:04 PM)Sled21 Wrote: There is a myriad of NFL players who prove the concept that some players play better than they practice, and some players practice better than they play. Have to actually put him in a game to see how he handles pressure. 

There are zero NFL head coaches who give all of their back ups starts in order to evaluate them.

Good NFL coaches need to be able to evaluate talent by watching them practice or play in preseason games.

[Sled21]

(10-22-2020, 04:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There are zero NFL head coaches who give all of their back ups starts in order to evaluate them.

Good NFL coaches need to be able to evaluate talent by watching them practice or play in preseason games.

Ok, Fred...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-22-2020, 11:51 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Even I can't fault him for this.

The season was over.  They were 0-8.  And they just had invested a 4th round pick in Finley.  In fact that traded up to get him.  Everyone knew at that point it was going to be Andy's last season.  So they needed to see what they had in Finley before going into the offseason. 

We're pretty much guaranteed a top 10 pick at that point.  It makes perfect sense to see if you're most recent QB drafted had anything to build off of, before investing in another QB.

I think the people that look at that move, like Taylor thought Finley immediately gave them a better chance to win than Dalton, are looking at it the wrong way.  That wasn't his motivation.  His motivation was having nothing to lose, and wanting to see the kid play.

Now... if you want to have a talk about why they ever drafted him that high to begin with, I'm all ears.  Because he looked like hot garbage, and someone who either should have been a UDFA or out of the league all together.

Exactly the way I feel, cannot fault Taylor at all on that move. Had to see what his pick could do and it was bad, real bad.

So was the pick as we all see, but we shouldn't fault Taylor for benching Dalton in a winless season to see what the backup had.

After a game or two though, I wanted to see Dolegala and it never happened.

[*pally*]

interesting but also fits with Geno's personality.

Geno Atkins hasn't been a single voice of negativity, actually. He doesn't say anything publicly, which helps. But - inside the building, he's made it clear that he doesn't want his name attached to those upset with playing time. His situation is very different.

— Jeremy Rauch (@FOX19Jeremy) October 22, 2020

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-22-2020, 06:36 PM)pally Wrote: interesting but also fits with Geno's personality.  

Geno Atkins hasn't been a single voice of negativity, actually. He doesn't say anything publicly, which helps. But - inside the building, he's made it clear that he doesn't want his name attached to those upset with playing time. His situation is very different.

— Jeremy Rauch (@FOX19Jeremy) October 22, 2020

Glad to hear this about Geno, he was hurt, cannot blame the coaches for playing the guys that are not.

The problem I had watching him was he looked out of shape, he can still keep in shape while recuperating a shoulder can't he?

I haven't had a problem with the players the coaches have been starting, I have had a problem with the coaching lol

[JSR18]

(10-22-2020, 02:53 PM)samhain Wrote: Thanks.

I don't see any way they can bring back either, but the Atkins dead cap will be distasteful to ownership.  

Tell them to put some hot sauce on it...[emoji2960]

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