Catching Ball in Space, Yards After Catch

[Wes Mantooth]

So, I've noticed something for quite awhile, and really the entirety of Zac Taylor's reign as head coach. And I'm curious if it's just me, or if others agree and can offer up an explanation.

Our receivers rarely catch the ball in space. Rarely are they wide open. And I don't necessarily mean streaking down the field, behind the defense, wide open. I'm talking about simply catching a ball and having plenty of room to turn around, or to keep running through the route.

It seems, even on the majority of our completions, that defenders are step for step with our guys, and are draped on then almost immediately. Often times the throwing windows are tight as can be.

Now, some of this can be explained by the offense's design. I realize Taylor runs a lot of quick throws/routes and shorter passes. But I really think there's more there than that.

What I'm seeing is our playcalling isn't fooling anyone. Our routes are blanketed. Outside of miscomunication (See Mixon's receiving touchdown), I don't see our offensive playcalling exploiting the defense.

I watch a lot of NFL football. Not as much as some, I don't watch film and I don't go back and watch other games on NFL Network. But I do watch the 1 o'clock, the 4'clock, and all the Primetime games, and having been doing so for years. And what I'm seeing strikes me as severe problem

You watch other games, there's plays all the time where a guys got at least 5 yards of space when he catches the ball. It's pretty routine. They either exploit a zone, confuse the defenders, run a pick, etc.. Yet I rarely see it with this team.

Am I nuts, or does anyone else see this too? It almost feels like a miracle sometime when Burrow gets a pass in there, past a defender or two that's all over our guy. I would hate to see what a really bad, inaccurate QB would like in this scheme. And it's more than a separation issue too. Again, I see routes run all the time where the defense is fooled, or they take advantage of the call.

I just don't think this offense, be it the scheme or playcalling (or both), is well designed. We make 10 yards and in look way more difficult than it needs to be.

Lastly, I don't think I've ever seen a team use the middle of the field less, beyond 10 yards. It's like they're scared to death of anything beyond that, that isn't down the sideline.

Thoughts???

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-20-2020, 04:22 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: So, I've noticed something for quite awhile, and really the entirety of Zac Taylor's reign as head coach.  And I'm curious if it's just me, or if others agree and can offer up an explanation.

Our receivers rarely catch the ball in space.  Rarely are they wide open.  And I don't necessarily mean streaking down the field, behind the defense, wide open.  I'm talking about simply catching a ball and having plenty of room to turn around, or to keep running through the route.

It seems, even on the majority of our completions, that defenders are step for step with our guys, and are draped on then almost immediately.  Often times the throwing windows are tight as can be.

Now, some of this can be explained by the offense's design.  I realize Taylor runs a lot of quick throws/routes and shorter passes.  But I really think there's more there than that.

What I'm seeing is our playcalling isn't fooling anyone.  Our routes are blanketed.  Outside of miscomunication (See Mixon's receiving touchdown), I don't see our offensive playcalling exploiting the defense.

I watch a lot of NFL football.  Not as much as some, I don't watch film and I don't go back and watch other games on NFL Network.  But I do watch the 1 o'clock, the 4'clock, and all the Primetime games, and having been doing so for years.  And what I'm seeing strikes me as severe problem

You watch other games, there's plays all the time where a guys got at least 5 yards of space when he catches the ball.  It's pretty routine.  They either exploit a zone, confuse the defenders, run a pick, etc..  Yet I rarely see it with this team.

Am I nuts, or does anyone else see this too?  It almost feels like a miracle sometime when Burrow gets a pass in there, past a defender or two that's all over our guy.  I would hate to see what a really bad, inaccurate QB would like in this scheme.  And it's more than a separation issue too.  Again, I see routes run all the time where the defense is fooled, or they take advantage of the call.

I just don't think this offense, be it the scheme or playcalling (or both), is well designed.  We make 10 yards and in look way more difficult than it needs to be.

Lastly, I don't think I've ever seen a team use the middle of the field less, beyond 10 yards.  It's like they're scared to death of anything beyond that, that isn't down the sideline.

Thoughts???

I watch the steelers and all their rub routes (legally executed) gives Piggy massive windows to throw to.  They were almost always running wide open.  It is like a JV QB could hit those receivers.  Burrow has to hit our guys in tiny windows.  I don't get it, either.  Boyd seems to generate decent separation but he is usually facing a lesser CB.  I don't know how much of it is the routes, but I see two deep safeties in almost every defense we face.  The best ways to poke holes in a cover 2 is with a good pass catching TE down the seams.  We rarely run that but have had moderate success when they have.  

[impactplaya]

Yes Ive brought this up before about our targets.
Did anybody watch that DeAndre Hopkins 61 yd catch last night?
Simple drag route , caught it at 8 to 10 yds in stride and simply
Outran coverage.

Any of our WRs and that includes John Ross can run that same
Route and make some YAC.

Rarely do our WR catch the ball with MOMENTUM OR IN STRIDE.

our WR dont run WHIP ROUTES...SLUGGO...OUT AND UP...PICK ROUTES...STOP.AND GO....

and it took Zac 6 games to figure out that a slant works to AJ.
And if it can work AJ it can work for the others.

[*ochocincos*]

A lot of it is the playcalling. Not just the play itself, but which receiver is running each route of the play.
Some receivers are better at certain routes than others.

IF AJ is really back to being a consistent 80+ yard guy, the Bengals have a good set of starting receivers to work with.
Sample is inconsistent but he's shown flashes. I'd still prefer Uzomah as the starter though.
Mixon and Bernard are good pass catchers.

Improve the playcalling and upgrade the OL to allow more time for routes to develop and I think you'll see the offense be far more productive.

[JSR18]

Unlike some of the previous posts, I don't think it has very much to do with the play call as it does with play design and formation. Creativity by the O coordinator is the key.

That's why Hue Jackson's Offense was so productive. He could run the same play out of 4-5 different formations. Helps keep the defense guessing. Except for the Hue OC years, how many times have we heard opposing defensive players say "we knew what play was coming".

Creativity.

[SunsetBengal]

Some want to blame predictable, simplistic, repetitive play calling for our WRs always seeming to be blanket covered. Yes, I do agree that many other teams do seem to have more instances of receivers being wide open, and able to catch the ball and have room to run. I don't think that other teams are benefitting from vastly superior play calling as much as simply having more time to let their receivers get open and their QBs study the field.

There are some of the same conversations we were having about the Bengals, the last 3 years that Andy was the QB. I've brought it up before, an OL must give their QB at least 3 full seconds of protection on every drop back (though more is preferred). In the current state of things on the line, Joe sometimes has defenders literally arriving about the same time the shotgun snap reaches his hands. It's not a QB/WR issue folks, it's the OL..

[Gdale_Bengal]

It’s see you Wes, but that also requires burrow to have time in the pocket for those plays to develop.

[thompson19osu]

I think its partly o-line and teams knowing our line sucks and they can blitz, therefore they are ready for shorter routes. The other half is scheming, drawing up plays that can get receivers open. I feel like most our calls are strictly dependent on players winning one on one matchups. It is aggravating for sure watching so many other teams having guys seemingly running free whhile we have to scratch and claw for every yard.

[Joelist]

Playcalling is part of the issue but also the formation gives away the play; and that is something the Bengals have CONSTANTLY been guilty of. Why we can't run and pass out of the same formation is a mystery.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-20-2020, 06:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Some want to blame predictable, simplistic, repetitive play calling for our WRs always seeming to be blanket covered.  Yes, I do agree that many other teams do seem to have more instances of receivers being wide open, and able to catch the ball and have room to run.  I don't think that other teams are benefitting from vastly superior play calling as much as simply having more time to let their receivers get open and their QBs study the field.

There are some of the same conversations we were having about the Bengals, the last 3 years that Andy was the QB.  I've brought it up before, an OL must give their QB at least 3 full seconds of protection on every drop back (though more is preferred).  In the current state of things on the line, Joe sometimes has defenders literally arriving about the same time the shotgun snap reaches his hands.  It's not a QB/WR issue folks, it's the OL..

I believe you're spot on as to the bulk of the problem.  But I also believe scheme/playcalling has a part as well.

When watching the better teams O's in the league and I don't mean just the Chiefs, several others as well. 6, 8, 10 plays a game or more they catch the opposing D zigging when they should have zagged. This happens with us in a "normal" game once or twice. 

In other words we don't fool anybody much.

[Essex Johnson]

(10-20-2020, 04:22 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: So, I've noticed something for quite awhile, and really the entirety of Zac Taylor's reign as head coach.  And I'm curious if it's just me, or if others agree and can offer up an explanation.

Our receivers rarely catch the ball in space.  Rarely are they wide open.  And I don't necessarily mean streaking down the field, behind the defense, wide open.  I'm talking about simply catching a ball and having plenty of room to turn around, or to keep running through the route.

It seems, even on the majority of our completions, that defenders are step for step with our guys, and are draped on then almost immediately.  Often times the throwing windows are tight as can be.

Now, some of this can be explained by the offense's design.  I realize Taylor runs a lot of quick throws/routes and shorter passes.  But I really think there's more there than that.

What I'm seeing is our playcalling isn't fooling anyone.  Our routes are blanketed.  Outside of miscomunication (See Mixon's receiving touchdown), I don't see our offensive playcalling exploiting the defense.

I watch a lot of NFL football.  Not as much as some, I don't watch film and I don't go back and watch other games on NFL Network.  But I do watch the 1 o'clock, the 4'clock, and all the Primetime games, and having been doing so for years.  And what I'm seeing strikes me as severe problem

You watch other games, there's plays all the time where a guys got at least 5 yards of space when he catches the ball.  It's pretty routine.  They either exploit a zone, confuse the defenders, run a pick, etc..  Yet I rarely see it with this team.

Am I nuts, or does anyone else see this too?  It almost feels like a miracle sometime when Burrow gets a pass in there, past a defender or two that's all over our guy.  I would hate to see what a really bad, inaccurate QB would like in this scheme.  And it's more than a separation issue too.  Again, I see routes run all the time where the defense is fooled, or they take advantage of the call.

I just don't think this offense, be it the scheme or playcalling (or both), is well designed.  We make 10 yards and in look way more difficult than it needs to be.

Lastly, I don't think I've ever seen a team use the middle of the field less, beyond 10 yards.  It's like they're scared to death of anything beyond that, that isn't down the sideline.

Thoughts???

Well part this year is Burrow.. when we have been in space he has not done a good job getting them the ball.. last week we finally made a couple plays