Bengals vs. Browns 2.0 and Mike Brown

[impactplaya]

There is no excuse to be 3 18 and 1 22 games in
How many 4th quarter leads can ZT let slip away
Before its unanimous that ZT is not ready.for a gig
That only 32 men in the US can have.??

Coaching is everything in the NFL.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(10-23-2020, 02:41 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Has our D got to and knocked around any QB this year?

Yes. Joe Burrow during practice.

[Essex Johnson]

(10-23-2020, 01:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We need to win at least 7 games this year and do so in a fashion that shows a team coming together and a coaching staff 
that is not completely inept. You don't ignore the O-line to get your new Franchise QB killed and to make sure you don't 
have any gaps for your newly paid Franchise RB. You don't primarily run Zone Defense with Man Corners, you don't ignore 
the QB sneak when it always fricking works etc.

So now we need to judge wins ? in that case judge losses.. do close ones count as better.. come on now.. if the bengals win 6 games that 3x better than last year..as for the line that is Front Office fault more than Taylor I believe and as for the draft LB was the worse than Oline last year so drafting there i understand.. maybe we should have went Lineman in 2nd round and passed on Higgins, is that something you would have done ? 
As for Burrow.. he was drafted by a bad team.. he is going to take hits etc... he young, he will handle it... that was QBs that are successful do. 

[Yojimbo]

(10-23-2020, 01:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We need to win at least 7 games this year and do so in a fashion that shows a team coming together and a coaching staff 
that is not completely inept. You don't ignore the O-line to get your new Franchise QB killed and to make sure you don't 
have any gaps for your newly paid Franchise RB. You don't primarily run Zone Defense with Man Corners, you don't ignore 
the QB sneak when it always fricking works etc.

I think there is a bigger problem than ignoring the Oline. They thought what they did would work:

Sign a backup to be a starter, XSF
Jordan taking a step forward
Williams coming back from injury
Sticking their fingers in their ears and say “Lalalala” when anybody criticizes Hart

The only thing working so far was getting a healthy Jonah Williams. The rest of their plan has just crumbled. I guess the Hart thing could be called ignoring.

[Essex Johnson]

(10-23-2020, 08:02 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I think there is a bigger problem than ignoring the Oline. They thought what they did would work:

Sign a backup to be a starter, XSF
Jordan taking a step forward
Williams coming back from injury
Sticking their fingers in their ears and say “Lalalala” when anybody criticizes Hart

The only thing working so far was getting a healthy Jonah Williams. The rest of their plan has just crumbled. I guess the Hart thing could be called ignoring.

XSF has been a starter and a backup at times.. he was a good signing I believe actually played a good first game. sadly out for the year.. which hurt a team thin at guard.  

[Yojimbo]

(10-24-2020, 09:17 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: XSF has been a starter and a backup at times.. he was a good signing I believe actually played a good first game. sadly out for the year.. which hurt a team thin at guard.  

He was a starter in Houston because he was a 2nd round pick. They didn’t even try to re-sign him. He was a backup in Dallas until Williams got hurt. He did play well for 40 snaps, then got hurt. Another one of his specialties.

[fredtoast]

Lots of mixed messages here on what fans think we should do.

It seems some of the same ones who claim we should trade all of our old players for draft picks to re-build also think the Bengals were "ignoring the O-line" because they gave Michael Jordan a year to develop at OG. You can't call for a team to "buuild through the draft" and then expect every rookie to step in and play great immediately. other than first round picks it is actually rare for draft picks to step in and flourish as rookies. We all hear about a handful of second or third rounders who do it, but don't realize that an overwhelming majority of them don't. In fact many many draft picks never develop into solid starters. Even the best teams are lucky to get 3 or more future high quality starters from a draft.

[fredtoast]

(10-24-2020, 11:11 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: He was a starter in Houston because he was a 2nd pick. They didn’t even try to re-sign him. He was a backup in Dallas until Williams got hurt.

They guy he replaced here, Jon Miller, got paid more in free agency than we gave Su'a-Filo.  But Xavier was supposed to be a "better fit for our system".

I still do not understand how our running game went from decent the last half of last season back to total garbage.

[Essex Johnson]

Interesting for those believers in PFF Hart rating this season is above average.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-23-2020, 07:59 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So now we need to judge wins ? in that case judge losses.. do close ones count as better.. come on now.. if the bengals win 6 games that 3x better than last year..as for the line that is Front Office fault more than Taylor I believe and as for the draft LB was the worse than Oline last year so drafting there i understand.. maybe we should have went Lineman in 2nd round and passed on Higgins, is that something you would have done ? 
As for Burrow.. he was drafted by a bad team.. he is going to take hits etc... he young, he will handle it... that was QBs that are successful do. 

Uh, yeah, last I heard you want to win games?

The Draft was fine, as was the great FA. Just saying that right now they should be picking up Spain off the street and looking for 
another Guard. These guys at Guard just aren't getting it done. Johnson and Jordan are awful. 

Hart is maybe okay, we need upgrades to keep Burrow upright and to open up lanes in the running game.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-23-2020, 04:35 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: dotdotdot




1. Marv was at least a couple years past his expiration date and probably hung around that time against his better judgement. 

2. Mike Brown's father was fired by Art Modell. Not the city of Cleveland. "The Browns" packed up and left Cleveland for Baltimore in 1995. Why would Mike Brown hate the city of Cleveland for something they had no part in?

3. This is the part of this message board that i hate and it drives me crazy. People say crazy shit, then all of the sudden it becomes a thing. 

If Zac Taylor gets fired, it's because of his shitty record up to now. It won't be because he lost twice to the Browns in the same year. What kind of logical or even common sense thought process is that? What if Marv had just happened to lose twice to the Browns anytime between 2011 and 2015? Was Mike gonna fire him then?


Make it ***** stop.

Quit being a dick Rfaulk, I was just talking about recent history. Damn.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-23-2020, 08:02 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I think there is a bigger problem than ignoring the Oline. They thought what they did would work:

Sign a backup to be a starter, XSF
Jordan taking a step forward
Williams coming back from injury
Sticking their fingers in their ears and say “Lalalala” when anybody criticizes Hart

The only thing working so far was getting a healthy Jonah Williams. The rest of their plan has just crumbled. I guess the Hart thing could be called ignoring.

Get Spain in here and I will say they are not ignoring the O-line.

The Guards suck. I doubt they would be able to find a RT right now so that is moot.

[Yojimbo]

(10-24-2020, 03:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Get Spain in here and I will say they are not ignoring the O-line.

The Guards suck. I doubt they would be able to find a RT right now so that is moot.

They do suck and that’s a bigger problem than ignoring. The coaches thought they would be good enough. Ignoring would be them saying they aren’t good, but we don’t care.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-24-2020, 03:40 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: They do suck and that’s a bigger problem than ignoring. The coaches thought they would be good enough. Ignoring would be them saying they aren’t good, but we don’t care.

No Spain, the Guards aren't good, so they don't care = IGNORING.

[Yojimbo]

(10-24-2020, 03:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No Spain, the Guards aren't good, so they don't care = IGNORING.

If they were ignoring it, they wouldn’t have cut Miller and signed XSF, they wouldn’t have tried 3 different guys at RG. What they are doing is worse than ignoring it. They are trying to fix it and it’s still terrible. They can’t coach and they are terrible talent evaluators.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-24-2020, 03:49 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: If they were ignoring it, they wouldn’t have cut Miller and signed XSF, they wouldn’t have tried 3 different guys at RG. What they are doing is worse than ignoring it. They are trying to fix it and it’s still terrible. They can’t coach and they are terrible talent evaluators.

All true, Turner needs to go for sure. Just saying they could bring in Quinton Spain and we would immediately be better in pass 
protection but they won't do it. Just makes me mad Yo.

[Essex Johnson]

(10-24-2020, 03:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Uh, yeah, last I heard you want to win games?

The Draft was fine, as was the great FA. Just saying that right now they should be picking up Spain off the street and looking for 
another Guard. These guys at Guard just aren't getting it done. Johnson and Jordan are awful. 

Hart is maybe okay, we need upgrades to keep Burrow upright and to open up lanes in the running game.

but you decided to judge wins in your eval.. so is a win a win ? and a lose a lose? or are there variables for both?  confused

[Yojimbo]

(10-24-2020, 03:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All true, Turner needs to go for sure. Just saying they could bring in Quinton Spain and we would immediately be better in pass 
protection but they won't do it. Just makes me mad Yo.

Hey, we agree on Spain, I’m the one who started the thread on him, and that this line isn’t good enough, I just think using the word ignore is giving them too much credit. Like, if they stopped ignoring it they could actually fix it. I think they’ve tried and don’t have the ability to.

[Essex Johnson]

(10-24-2020, 03:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Get Spain in here and I will say they are not ignoring the O-line.

The Guards suck. I doubt they would be able to find a RT right now so that is moot.

Well by the PFF rating, Hart is above average this year and improved last year from year before.. he is the 42 paid OT at 5.3 million and as i look at that list in the 5 million range, there are some good ones and and some duds in that range so I would have to say based on PFF Hart is not a bust for that price.. 

[KillerGoose]

(10-24-2020, 04:02 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well by the PFF rating, Hart is above average this year and improved last year from year before.. he is the 42 paid OT at 5.3 million and as i look at that list in the 5 million range, there are some good ones and and some duds in that range so I would have to say based on PFF Hart is not a bust for that price.. 

It’s because of his run block grade. Hart is graded very, very well when it comes to run blocking out is pretty piss poor in pass blocking. It is a huge discrepancy, something like an 81 grade at run blocking and 54 in pass blocking (not exact numbers, just working off of memory.)

The total grade is just an aggregation of those two, I believe. Hart would be a fine backup or a great swing tackle in unbalanced formations.