Biggest heartbreaking season at mid point?

[Tony]

I know we have been through alot of heartbreaking seasons as a Bengal fans, and alot didn't expect much this year. IMHO this has been one of the most nail biting ,/ heartbreaking starts we have had in a while. This team is literally a play each week away from 5-2 / 4-3... The Chargers game ended on a iffy push off call and a cramp away from winning Burrows NFL debut. Browns beat us straight up. PHILLY , we had so many chances to put that away. Wentz juking Carlos in the 4th QTR comes to mind in this one. Jacksonville dominating win. Baltimore dominated us, Burrows 1st bad rookie game. Defense played well. Indy , blown 21 point lead. Burrow , plays lights out , but the D cant stop Mayfield's 4 2nd half TDs and no incompletions but a spike.. Lose in the last seconds..

It seems like playing as a complete team been one of our biggest downfalls for the longest time... Either the offense shows out and D sucks or the other way around. Never a complete performance. We are as close as you cant get to being a contending team. Atlanta is the NFC Bengals. This season also reminds me alot of Boomers first year starting in 1987. The Bengals lost 7 games by 5 or less or something close to that. We all know what happend in 1988... We are getting their guys.. Gotta keep faith in the process at this point. We dont really have another choice..

[Sled21]

(10-30-2020, 02:07 PM)Tony Wrote: I know we have been through alot of heartbreaking seasons as a Bengal fans, and alot didn't expect much this year. IMHO this has been one of the most nail biting ,/ heartbreaking starts we have had in a while. This team is literally a play each week away from 5-2 / 4-3... The Chargers game ended on a iffy push off call and a cramp away from winning Burrows NFL debut.  Browns beat us straight up. PHILLY , we had so many chances to put that away. Wentz juking Carlos in the 4th QTR comes to mind in this one. Jacksonville dominating win. Baltimore dominated us, Burrows 1st bad rookie game. Defense played well. Indy , blown 21 point lead. Burrow , plays lights out , but the D cant stop Mayfield's 4 2nd half TDs and no incompletions but a spike.. Lose in the last seconds..

It seems like playing as a complete team been one of our biggest downfalls for the longest time... Either the offense shows out and D sucks or the other way around. Never a complete performance.  We are as close as you cant get to being a contending team. Atlanta is the NFC Bengals. This season also reminds me alot of Boomers first year starting in 1987. The Bengals lost 7 games by 5 or less or something close to that. We all know what happend in 1988... We are getting their guys.. Gotta keep faith in the process at this point. We dont really have another choice..

Just that close in so many games.... one more successful draft and a couple of more free agents and this team will have a very good record.

[Tony]

(10-30-2020, 02:10 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Just that close in so many games.... one more successful draft and a couple of more free agents and this team will have a very good record.

That's how I feel at this point. No one wins with rookie QBs. I mean even Peyton threw 28 picks in year 1. Burrow every week gets better and better and he started average/ good with no pre season or offseason. I'm telling you this reminds me alot of the 87 season and the close losses.  This is gonna galvanize this team....

[bengals67]

I agree with the national commentators that the future is bright but that depends on getting a competent coaching staff, an improved personnel department to evaluate college players, and hoping Burrow is not killed or completely discouraged playing behind our current incompetent o line

They need to dump the bigger contracts of older players like AJ, hit on their draft picks next year, and be just as active in free agency as they were this year.

When you get a QB with Burrow's potential its time to go all in.

[KillerGoose]

(10-30-2020, 02:36 PM)Tony Wrote: That's how I feel at this point. No one wins with rookie QBs. I mean even Peyton threw 28 picks in year 1. Burrow every week gets better and better and he started average/ good with no pre season or offseason. I'm telling you this reminds me alot of the 87 season and the close losses.  This is gonna galvanize this team....

The league, and game, was so different when Peyton was a rookie that making any comparisons there doesn’t work. If a rookie came in and threw 28 picks, that would be seen as a failure in today’s game.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-30-2020, 02:53 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The league, and game, was so different when Peyton was a rookie that making any comparisons there doesn’t work. If a rookie came in and threw 28 picks, that would be seen as a failure in today’s game.

It wasn’t seen as particularly good back then either. Peyton had 575 attempts his rookie season. Burrow is already at 293 through 7 games, so he should end up with well over 600. And he’s only only pace for about 11 INT’s.

[HarleyDog]

(10-30-2020, 02:10 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Just that close in so many games.... one more successful draft and a couple of more free agents and this team will have a very good record.

Agree. It’s refreshing to see the team more aggressive in making FA moves and maybe 1 more round of draft picks will be all it takes to turn the corner. If not, it’s still better than watching the FO sitting on their hands and doing little to nothing like we’re used to seeing.

[*SHRacerX*]

The losses have been BS and heartbreaking, yes. It would have been so much for Burrow to be "in the mix" for the playoffs as the kid just seems to rise in the biggest games, but the thing that we should focus on is the positive. We most definitely have a QB that can win a Super Bowl. That is the hardest part. That is a huge positive. Add in the draft picks 1-5 have had significant playing time and are doing very well (#6 getting his shot this weekend) is another positive.

If I am being honest with myself, as much as I hated watching Baker throw something like 20 consecutive completions and douche it up after beating the Bengals last weekend, that win would have only cost the Bengals a draft pick. They are likely to get a pretty high pick next year, and with just a couple more moves in FA with healthy players returning, the Bengals will be a contender next year. Nothing heartbreaking about that.

[fredtoast]

I still have some optimism for this season, but not really based on the fact we have a lot of close losses.

For example, you can say we just lost the Chargers game because of a bad call, but the Chargers are a bad team who have only won one game since then and they outgained us 362 to 295. So actually we were lucky to even be within one score of winning against a bad team.

We were one play away from winning against the Eagles, 2-4 against everyone else, but we were also one play away from losing that game. And they outgained us 381-304.

Our only win is against the Jags and they are pathetic.

If we did have a .500 record at this point I would actually be thinking we were lucky to be there.



So my optimism is based on things like the fact that Burrow is still just a rookie, and his up-and-down play should continue to trend upward. That is not just a wish, that is a reasonable expectation for any rookie QB.

Our O-line started out bad, and is now mostly back ups. So I don't have much hope for the offense being great, but AJ is returning to form and Tee Higgens is looking great for a 2nd round pick. Mixon is a gifted RB, so we have good skill position players in place.

Defense is a nightmare, I know we have lost a lot of guys to injury, but even at the start of the season when we were healthy we were getting gouged by the run. The only hope here is that rookies like Logan Wilson and Davis-Gaither get better as the season progresses, and that some of the injured players return to form.


Overall I am willing to give Zac and this staff the rest of the season to show marked improvement. But if we just beat a couple of more really bad teams I am not going to be impressed. Zac added a ton of talent to the team since last year. I know we have had injuries, but when you add talent that should mean you have better depth also. That is why good teams deal with injuries better.

[fredtoast]

(10-31-2020, 11:14 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:  We most definitely have a QB that can win a Super Bowl.  

I like Burrow a lot, but comments like this are ridiculous when talking about a guy with one career win against the worst team in the league.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

To my mind the 2018 season had the biggest mid-season disappointment. Starting out at 5-3, the Bengals lost five straight games and eventually finished 6-10.

2019 and 2020 are not heartbreaking. They are nauseating.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-31-2020, 12:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I like Burrow a lot, but comments like this are ridiculous when talking about a guy with one career win against the worst team in the league.

If you don't see it, that is on you.  And that is ridiculous...

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-31-2020, 12:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I like Burrow a lot, but comments like this are ridiculous when talking about a guy with one career win against the worst team in the league.

He didn't say 'with the Bengals'. Just that he had the ability and i don't see how that's even a stretch considering how he finished last year and what he's shown this year. There's even a handfull of "experts" that have said the same thing, in the national media. 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(10-31-2020, 11:14 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: We most definitely have a QB that can win a Super Bowl.

This is a strong statement and I don’t totally disagree with it. Joe Burrow has played very well between the 20 yard lines but I want to see more Red Zone dominance before I’ll say “definitely.” Joe has amazing touch and excellent decision making ability and these skills will help immensely.

The unfortunate truth here is Joe is surrounded by a team which cannot win a Super Bowl. That’s painful to write but we must always look at what is, not how we want things to be. I’m not sure the coaches know to set the team up for success in general and set up Joe for success in particular. If a quarterback is throwing for > 300 yards per game and the team is 1-5-1 then that’s a bad team.

[fredtoast]

(10-31-2020, 12:31 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: If you don't see it, that is on you.  And that is ridiculous...

So you were not around here when everyone said that it doesn't matter how many good games a QB has if he can't perform well in prime time or playoff games or against winning teams?

And college doesn't count because Andy Dalton did more with less talent at TCU (13-0, #2 in country in 2010, 12-1, #5 in 2009) than Burrow did at LSU with a record number of NFL draft picks around him.

I believe Burrow can be a great QB.  But it is just a "hope".  There is nothing really to prove it yet.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-31-2020, 12:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you were not around here when everyone said that it doesn't matter how many good games a QB has if he can't perform well in prime time or playoff games or against winning teams?

And college doesn't count because Andy Dalton did more with less talent at TCU (13-0, #2 in country in 2010, 12-1, #5 in 2009) than Burrow did at LSU with a record number of NFL draft picks around him.

I believe Burrow can be a great QB.  But it is just a "hope".  There is nothing really to prove it yet.

He has improved every week.  He has shown he can read defenses, has great accuracy, and had his team in position to win the majority of the games this season.  I guess if you don't think that is proof as a rookie with no preseason, then you won't see it.  That's fine.  Agree to disagree.  

[J24]

I would say 2018 was more heartbreaking then this year. We lost our two best Offensive players in Eifert and Green. Plus our new defensive star in Carl Lawson tore his ACL against the Bucs. We were 5-3 but it felt like their was zero hope left in the season.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-31-2020, 02:59 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: He has improved every week.  He has shown he can read defenses, has great accuracy, and had his team in position to win the majority of the games this season.  I guess if you don't think that is proof as a rookie with no preseason, then you won't see it.  That's fine.  Agree to disagree.  

But has he? He's looked really really good at times, and not good at others. There hasn't really been a upward trend, but just a zigzag. (Which is to be expected by a Rookie.)

Week 1-3: 5 TD/1 INT, 89.0 QB Rating
Week 4-6: 1 TD/3 INT, 79.7 QB Rating

I think Burrow will be fine and turn out great, but the idea that he's improved every week just isn't based in reality.

(10-31-2020, 03:26 PM)J24 Wrote: I would say 2018 was more heartbreaking then this year. We lost our two best Offensive players in Eifert and Green. Plus our new defensive star in Carl Lawson tore his ACL against the Bucs.  We were 5-3 but it felt like their was zero hope left in the season.

Star is a bit generous for a part time role player who only made 16 total tackles in 482 defensive snaps (plus another 157 on ST). He was a good pass rushing specialist, but even PFF (if you put any stock into that, but I would understand if you didn't) graded him at 64.8 overall in 2017.

Even in 2018 before getting hurt he only had 1 sack and 6 total tackles in 7 games.

[*jason*]

(10-30-2020, 02:36 PM)Tony Wrote: That's how I feel at this point. No one wins with rookie QBs. I mean even Peyton threw 28 picks in year 1. Burrow every week gets better and better and he started average/ good with no pre season or offseason. I'm telling you this reminds me alot of the 87 season and the close losses.  This is gonna galvanize this team....

RG3, Russell Wilson, and Andrew Luck all made the playoffs as rookies. I believe Deshsaun Watson did too. Hell our last QB did it. The Cowboys with Dak? Teams win with rookie QBs... It's worth pointing out that only Luck was the number 1 overall pick... And he went to a team that was a perineal contender before Manning went down.

[*jason*]

(10-31-2020, 11:14 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The losses have been BS and heartbreaking, yes. It would have been so much for Burrow to be "in the mix" for the playoffs as the kid just seems to rise in the biggest games, but the thing that we should focus on is the positive. We most definitely have a QB that can win a Super Bowl. That is the hardest part. That is a huge positive. Add in the draft picks 1-5 have had significant playing time and are doing very well (#6 getting his shot this weekend) is another positive.

If I am being honest with myself, as much as I hated watching Baker throw something like 20 consecutive completions and douche it up after beating the Bengals last weekend, that win would have only cost the Bengals a draft pick. They are likely to get a pretty high pick next year, and with just a couple more moves in FA with healthy players returning, the Bengals will be a contender next year. Nothing heartbreaking about that.

I feel it's a bit early to be worrying about draft position... That win would have done way more than drop us a pick or two... It would have been this coaching staff's first win against a team with a winning record. It also would've taught some of these guys what it takes to win a close game. Hanging our hats on close losses is stupid... Most losses are close. Even if the game is more of a blowout than it appears on the surface (Titans/ Steelers this past week comes to mind). Bad/ poorly prepared teams lose close games every week, while the good teams routinely find a way to win those games... Just like we did not too too long ago.