Zak needs 1 more year to change culture

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-16-2020, 12:51 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I feel like he calls a pretty good game. I don't feel like I can predict what play is coming next like I could under Marvin's offense.

That puts you far behind 31 NFL defensive coordinators who seem to anticipate almost every play Zac runs.  One who "calls a pretty good game" should not have a 4-20-1 record.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-16-2020, 10:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm trying to be realistic about this and think the Bengals will not move on from Taylor.  I could see them firing Anarumo, but at least he has an injury excuse on his side.  On offense, they had decent protection and couldn't do a damn thing.  

When the Bengals were at their best, they had great coordinators.   The HC doesn't matter as much in terms of the scheme.  I wish there could be some great improvements at the coordinator level on both sides of the ball.  I just don't know where it would come from.  A guy like Bienemy isn't going to come here to be an OC and leave Mahommes.  He wants to be a HC, and they will likely be in the Super Bowl again which means you can't talk to any of their coaches until very late in the season, leaving you scrambling for coordinators. 

Injuries can't be blamed when he's only sending 2-3 to rush the passer at times.
That's playcalling.

[wildcatnku24]

(11-16-2020, 11:06 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That puts you far behind 31 NFL defensive coordinators who seem to anticipate almost every play Zac runs.  One who "calls a pretty good game" should not have a 4-20-1 record.

If this were the case, how would we be dang-near 100% on fourth down?  And how would we be putting so many points up each week?  I think we're experiencing a heavy dose of Monday loss blues.  I know I am, but I do agree with the OP on Zac needing another year.  It's funny, prior and during his hire, we acknowledged (most of us) that it'd take a few years to build this thing.  But now we're supposedly expecting win-now.  While I'd absolutely love to win now, I expect this offseason to be a big one in terms of out with the old, in with the new.

EDIT: Also, our team doesn't quit. That to me is the sign of good coaching. We have fight, and we've been very competitive. As a fan, I have enjoyed watching MOST of the games this year, Baltimore and Pittsburg not withstanding.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-16-2020, 11:10 AM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: If this were the case, how would we be dang-near 100% on fourth down? 

The problem is being on fourth and short so much in the first place.  It means you failed on third down. 

[wildcatnku24]

(11-16-2020, 11:18 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The problem is being on fourth and short so much in the first place.  It means you failed on third down. 

Hard to argue that, so I won't.  ha!  But imagine having a rookie QB who has a few bad games his first year, yet lights it up every other game.  That's us.  We are pretty dang close to being such a potent offense that our defense only needs to keep a team under 30.  Am I the only one that sees that?  We expected offense with Zac, and we're getting it!  At least, we're closer than last year.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-16-2020, 11:18 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The problem is being on fourth and short so much in the first place.  It means you failed on third down. 

How is that relevant to his point though?

We converted 13/14 4th downs; whether, 3rd, 2nd, whatever, the point is we converted and seem to be doing a good job of it, not to mention we had the 6th best percentage league-wide, last year as well.

If you want to criticize the 3rd down %, by all means, but it has nothing to do with 4th down.

(11-16-2020, 11:10 AM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: If this were the case, how would we be dang-near 100% on fourth down? And how would we be putting so many points up each week? I think we're experiencing a heavy dose of Monday loss blues. I know I am, but I do agree with the OP on Zac needing another year. It's funny, prior and during his hire, we acknowledged (most of us) that it'd take a few years to build this thing. But now we're supposedly expecting win-now. While I'd absolutely love to win now, I expect this offseason to be a big one in terms of out with the old, in with the new.

EDIT: Also, our team doesn't quit. That to me is the sign of good coaching. We have fight, and we've been very competitive. As a fan, I have enjoyed watching MOST of the games this year, Baltimore and Pittsburg not withstanding.

To the bold, that is exactly the mentality I've gotten all year; execution has not been the greatest at times and our D has let us down more-often than not, but I don't find myself as angry/miserable on Mondays this year, as I am today, which means that they're doing things much-better than last year.

And to your first paragraph, that is the absolute truth; all of us INTELLIGENT fans, knew this would be a 2-3 year work in progress and not only have we looked markedly-better than at this point last year, we have 2 more wins than at this point last year, have started to cut bait and the team has never quit or packed it in at any point. Zac just needs consistency; the Titans game was called beautifully, as were about half a dozen games this year. His only two duds have been the Ravens and Stoolers (arguable on the Chargers, but that's the first game of a ******-up season) and he needs to eliminate those.

There are absolutely issues on this team (every team has issues), but if nobody can see that this team is indeed trending upward from the second half of 2018-2019, then you really need to re-evaluate things.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-16-2020, 11:24 AM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: Hard to argue that, so I won't.  ha!  But imagine having a rookie QB who has a few bad games his first year, yet lights it up every other game.  That's us.  We are pretty dang close to being such a potent offense that our defense only needs to keep a team under 30.  Am I the only one that sees that?  We expected offense with Zac, and we're getting it!  At least, we're closer than last year.

Joe Burrow has very impressive rookie statistics.  That's not even up for debate and I'm behind him 100%.  The trouble is this:  He's having issues with the exact same teams which gave Andy Dalton and Carson Palmer problems.  This is systemic with the Bengals in general, not Joe Burrow in particular.  This offense approaches semi-potency only when Joe Burrow throws a lot -- and this isn't good because a truly potent offense can beat you with the pass, with the run, or with both; whatever it takes.

Joe may well be lighting it up but as of yet his impressive rookie statistics have not translated into team wins.  That's my concern.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-16-2020, 11:31 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Joe Burrow has very impressive rookie statistics.  That's not even up for debate and I'm behind him 100%.  The trouble is this:  He's having issues with the exact same teams which gave Andy Dalton and Carson Palmer problems.  This is systemic with the Bengals in general, not Joe Burrow in particular.  This offense approaches semi-potency only when Joe Burrow throws a lot -- and this isn't good because a truly potent offense can beat you with the pass, with the run, or with both; whatever it takes.

Joe may well be lighting it up but as of yet his impressive rookie statistics have not translated into team wins.  That's my concern.

No, this is systemic with the league on the whole, as EVERY team has the same issues with the Ravens and Stoolers as we do; we aren't playing at a high-enough level to overcome it at this point, but when two teams have among the 5 highest records of teams in the past 15 years, it's because they're doing things well AGAINST EVERYONE, not just the Bengals.

[thompson19osu]

Taylor’s playcalling on offense leaves more to be desired. I’m with the others who have stated lets not waste Burrow’s contract waiting on ZT to get up to snuff. He still has sweet Lou at DC which is clearly a problem. Don’t know how many times we have to watch 4 man rush with a soft zone get torched. Rivers did it and now Ben did it. When you are being called out by the game announcers for allowing the same thing to happen over and over again, something is obviously wrong.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-16-2020, 11:46 AM)thompson19osu Wrote: Taylor’s playcalling on offense leaves more to be desired. I’m with the others who have stated lets not waste Burrow’s contract waiting on ZT to get up to snuff. He still has sweet Lou at DC which is clearly a problem. Don’t know how many times we have to watch 4 man rush with a soft zone get torched. Rivers did it and now Ben did it. When you are being called out by the game announcers for allowing the same thing to happen over and over again, something is obviously wrong.

I'm not advocating FOR Zac, but why doesn't anyone take in someone's full body of work, when making critical observations?

Nobody was saying anything about his play-calling in the Jax, Colts, Browns (both of them) and Titans games.

To the bold, if you're referring to yesterday, then you either need to stop watching games with commentators or get more-informed on who is saying the words.

Jonathan Vilma is easily one of the 3-worst colour guys on television today, if not ever.

[fredtoast]

If you are going to give a head coach 3 years tio turn a team around then you have to see big improvement in the second year.

I am not seeing it.

If Taylor had a track record of turning teams around or ever winning anything as a coach then I might consider giving him a third year, but he has nothing like that.

Mike Brown just Gave Dick Lebeau two drafts to turn the team around and he had deep roots as a Bengal assistant coach. I don't see Taylor getting another year unless we show a big improvement over the rst of the season. And not just beating some other horrible team like Washington, the Giants, or Houston.

[wildcatnku24]

(11-16-2020, 11:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If you are going to give a head coach 3 years tio turn a team around then you have to see big improvement in the second year.

I am not seeing it.

If Taylor had a track record of turning teams around or ever winning anything as a coach then I might consider giving him a third year, but he has nothing like that.

Mike Brown just Gave Dick Lebeau two drafts to turn the team around and he had deep roots as a Bengal assistant coach.  I don't see Taylor getting another year unless we show a big improvement over the rst of the season.  And not just beating some other horrible team like Washington, the Giants, or Houston.

There has absolutely been big improvement this year, specifically in offensive production.  We've outscored our 2019 selves by a decent amount.  

You won't hear me bang on the table for keeping Lou, but I won't even be upset if Lou stays too, as it'd be nice to see what would happen with a healthy team.  Sure, one player goes down sometimes or whatever, but our DL and CB's have been beyond decimated.  But also, give the guy credit for some of the other stuff, like Bates continuing to grow, our LB crew growing into their own, etc.

[Hoofhearted]

(11-16-2020, 11:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If you are going to give a head coach 3 years tio turn a team around then you have to see big improvement in the second year.

I am not seeing it.

If Taylor had a track record of turning teams around or ever winning anything as a coach then I might consider giving him a third year, but he has nothing like that.

Mike Brown just Gave Dick Lebeau two drafts to turn the team around and he had deep roots as a Bengal assistant coach.  I don't see Taylor getting another year unless we show a big improvement over the rst of the season.  And not just beating some other horrible team like Washington, the Giants, or Houston.

Kyle Shanahan had worse record his second year vs 1st,  then the 3rd he flipped the switch. I know the FO are night and day on the way they approach things, and Kyle had 6 wins his first year, but still it took him 3 years before he really figured it out. 

[thillan]

Are we ready to start the head coaching candidates thread again? I'm curious how the last one turned out, maybe we have a guru on the board?

[*ochocincos*]

(11-16-2020, 11:58 AM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: There has absolutely been big improvement this year, specifically in offensive production.  We've outscored our 2019 selves by a decent amount.  

You won't hear me bang on the table for keeping Lou, but I won't even be upset if Lou stays too, as it'd be nice to see what would happen with a healthy team.  Sure, one player goes down sometimes or whatever, but our DL and CB's have been beyond decimated.  But also, give the guy credit for some of the other stuff, like Bates continuing to grow, our LB crew growing into their own, etc.

Lou has had most of his pass rushers active for most of the year and they still are about at the bottom of the NFL.
A team with Dunlap, Lawson, Hubbard, Daniels, Reader, and Atkins should not be 30th in the NFL in sacks per game.

[R3stangs]

(11-16-2020, 11:53 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I'm not advocating FOR Zac, but why doesn't anyone take in someone's full body of work, when making critical observations?

Isn't his full body of work 4-20-1 at this point?

[fredtoast]

(11-16-2020, 12:01 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Kyle Shanahan had worse record his second year vs 1st,  then the 3rd he flipped the switch. I know the FO are night and day on the way they approach things, and Kyle had 6 wins his first year, but still it took him 3 years before he really figured it out. 

Actually Kyle Shanahan had it figure out his FIRST season.  He was 5-0 as soon as he got a decent QB (Garrapolo).  Only reason he had a bad second season was that he lost Jimmy G and went 3-10 with Nick Mullins and C.J. Breathard starting in his place.  The defense improved from 24th to 13th, but the offense struggled without Garrapolo.

[fredtoast]

(11-16-2020, 11:58 AM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: There has absolutely been big improvement this year, specifically in offensive production.  We've outscored our 2019 selves by a decent amount.  

We were 17th in scoring offense in 2018 the year before Taylor took over.

In his two seasons we are 30th and 22nd.

[Luvnit2]

(11-16-2020, 12:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We were 17th in scoring offense in 2018 the year before Taylor took over.

In his two seasons we are 30th and 22nd.

2018 we did not have a 29 year old AJ Green either. How much did that hurt the 2018 team? He did not play 1 game.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-16-2020, 12:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We were 17th in scoring offense in 2018 the year before Taylor took over.

In his two seasons we are 30th and 22nd.

But, he wasn't here in 2018. Fact of the matter is, Taylor's first year our offense was horrible and we've clearly shown improvement in his 2nd year. Whether or not that's enough improvement is certainly debatable, but you can't say he hasn't improved in his 2nd season.