Zak needs 1 more year to change culture

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(11-16-2020, 02:01 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: So things don't change because I'm a fan of a football team and do believe in the progress I'm seeing.  So if I change my mind and say he needs to go, we'll start winning?   That, sir, is garbage. 

But yep, I don't plan on posting what I did often, as I know this is a message board where people just want to fly off the handle with hatred and vent for mental health, just trying to talk some of ya'll off this ledge you've created for yourselves.  It ain't as bad as ya'll are making it to be.  

Ah, so you've figured this place out! 

I suspect we're going to be above .500 over the next 7 games (easier schedule), and some of those people won't know what to do with themselves. 

After a loss I usually wait a few days before I come back to this board. Made an exception this time and already regretting it. 

[JSR18]

(11-16-2020, 12:39 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: The drafts have been good and i think talent wise we are getting better. I think we could do a lot better as far as a head coach that can out coach the opposition.

THIS!! Since Sam Wyche, thisfranchise has lacked a coach with a set of balls that will get into a playersface, a referee's face or anybody else's face who needs it. Nor have they been able to out-coach any opposing coaches...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Tlawsonmariat82]

(11-16-2020, 07:26 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: Marvins team quit on him the last 3 years he was coaching. 6-9-1, 7-9 & 6-10 and that is with his buddies Kirkpatrick, AJ Green, Dunlap and Atkins trying their hardest. Zak has taken over a team that actually has the team captains quitting on their team. This is the culture he his trying to change. Very hard to do when you have to replace the captains. Did anyone really think this would take a year and a half.  We are much closer than people realize but we are still a year away. It would also help to have a preseason next year.

6-9-1,7-9.and 6-10 all more wins in 16 games than zac has in 25..Marvin was 7-5 in the afc north his first 2 seasons meanwhile zac is serious danger of going winless in year 2..ownership spent 96mill in the offseason to fix the roster Name me one time they actually went all out like this to enhance a marvin roster??

This was a bad hire it's just that simple,zac has no track record to go off at this point it's just blind faith and that's the last thing this franchise can afford..we should an experienced HC with the credibility to bring in a competent staff..Rex Ryan,Jim Caldwell or jay gruden someone of that nature..

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-16-2020, 08:42 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I wouldn't have hired Zac Taylor in the first place.

Are you sure about that? Really, really sure?

[Tlawsonmariat82]

(11-17-2020, 12:37 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Are you sure about that? Really, really sure?

I'm really really really really sure..

[Bengalitis]

Even watching Burrow lose all the time gets boring quickly.

Which would you rather save, Burrow or Zac.

Time to fire Zac. Not bit of improvement.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-16-2020, 01:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: 2018 we did not have a 29 year old AJ Green either. How much did that hurt the 2018 team? He did not play 1 game.

Yes he did, played about 6 of them if I recall correctly, it was LAST season that he didn't play a game.

[*ochocincos*]

Honest question here...
What is he trying to change that needed to be changed from a culture perspective?

To me, the biggest change seems to be trying to change schemes.
More specifically, I think it's the defensive scheme adjustment going from a more traditional 4-3 to a hybrid that more closely resembles a 3-4.

The unfortunate solution might be that they need new players who better fit that scheme rather than the current guys being able to adjust properly. We've seen how that's gone.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-17-2020, 01:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Honest question here...
What is he trying to change that needed to be changed from a culture perspective?

To me, the biggest change seems to be trying to change schemes.
More specifically, I think it's the defensive scheme adjustment going from a more traditional 4-3 to a hybrid that more closely resembles a 3-4.

The unfortunate solution might be that they need new players who better fit that scheme rather than the current guys being able to adjust properly. We've seen how that's gone.

And I believe this is where MB/F.O. interference comes in. AJ should have never been tagged. Atkins and Dunlap should have been traded. ETC

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-16-2020, 01:30 PM)BengalChris Wrote: What's this "culture" you are talking about? "Acceptance of losing while thinking good thoughts about yourself" is not a culture worth waiting for. The veteran player who are use to winning are leaving or wanting out. Who could blame them? 4 wins in 25 games is horrifically bad, especially when starting with a team that was much better than that.

There've been no accomplishments by Taylor and his pals. Losing is not an accomplishment. Having the worst record in Bengals history is not an accomplishment. Some might count sucking so bad too get the #1 pick as an accomplishment, but not people who expect to win.

Dave Shula looks like a genius compared to this Taylor fellow.

 

Who are these vets "used to winning"? We haven't won a playoff game in 30 years, and haven't had a winning season in FIVE years. LOL.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-17-2020, 01:57 PM)Wyche Wrote: Who are these vets "used to winning"? We haven't won a playoff game in 30 years, and haven't had a winning season in FIVE years. LOL.

The last time you could pair the word good with the Bengals was mid 2015. It's been straight downhill since. I guess he's talking about that pre mid 2015 era. But even then used to winning is sort of a stretch.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-16-2020, 01:37 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Crap team ML left them had a ton of cap space and won 6 games. 9 games into season two ZT has won exactly 4 games and lost 20, yet you wanna trash ML?????????????

Marvin's philosophy and and schemes are way different than what the current staff wants to do. Plus a lot of Marvin's core players are all in their 30s. The team had been circling the drain since 2015 to anyone paying attention. Last year was roster evaluation....as in, see how many of those players would translate. Answer was, a few of them. Green, Dunlap, and Dalton were sure fire shoulda been traded players. Maybe Atkins too. This year, they've cut a few more of those guys from the roster, and had a decent FA haul this off-season. Too bad not many of them are playing right now.   

They need to improve some more, but to act like this was gonna be a Super Bowl run in year two wasn't based much in reality.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-17-2020, 02:05 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The last time you could pair the word good with the Bengals was mid 2015. It's been straight downhill since. I guess he's talking about that pre mid 2015 era. But even then used to winning is sort of a stretch.

Yeah, which was my point. The only guy wanting out is gone. He had some good years, here, no question. I'm watching my college team go through this same process, and watching the same comments on social media...lol. We shit canned the last coach midway through year 2 and we're back to rebuilding with a totally new philosophy AGAIN. The previous coach won a national title, then just essentially quit coaching. He let the talent in the trenches go to shit, sound familiar? The team still hasn't rebounded 4-5 years later.

I'd like to see this team go on a tear against these lesser teams over the next few weeks, then show real improvement against Balt and Pitt to close it out. If they do that, then I'm intrigued for year 3. If they completely shit the bed to close it out, barring anymore significant injuries, then we probably need to consider a big change. As it stands, I'd evaluate Lou and some position coaches and replace accordingly. 

[Hoofhearted]

(11-17-2020, 01:53 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And I believe this is where MB/F.O. interference comes in. AJ should have never been tagged. Atkins and Dunlap should have been traded. ETC

AJ is the only one who I sorta understand why they did it. I do not fault them for doing what they did, but I do wonder if it's what is going on with AJ (for lack of better terms, not giving a $hit attitude). The other two they should have known that they were going to need to go through a rebuild. The team was on a downslide and they failed to let Zach build his team, or maybe Zach endorsed them. idk. But either way, it's been a half-in, half out approach, which really fits how they do things well. 

[Murdock2420]

(11-17-2020, 02:07 PM)Wyche Wrote: Marvin's philosophy and and schemes are way different than what the current staff wants to do. Plus a lot of Marvin's core players are all in their 30s. The team had been circling the drain since 2015 to anyone paying attention. Last year was roster evaluation....as in, see how many of those players would translate. Answer was, a few of them. Green, Dunlap, and Dalton were sure fire shoulda been traded players. Maybe Atkins too. This year, they've cut a few more of those guys from the roster, and had a decent FA haul this off-season. Too bad not many of them are playing right now.   

They need to improve some more, but to act like this was gonna be a Super Bowl run in year two wasn't based much in reality.

Couldn't agree more with you.

I get that people are upset and tired of the losses, but let's be honest, this is really year 1 of the rebuild and I don't think Zac is in any danger of being fired.

His first season, he got here late due to the Super Bowl. He had trouble getting the staff together. There was little activity in roster management, and the draft came and they seemed unprepared. 

This year, he has his guy at QB, and got to go out and get players he wanted in the draft and seemed more fluid and prepared. They participated in FA (and have lost several of those FA's to injury) to shore up the roster. 

If you look at it as this is year 1, with a rookie QB that usually means 3 to 5 wins. 

Overall if you take out the Ravens and steelers game, they've played better, been in games and have had a chance to win. I think you'll see Zac here again next season, and if there is no improvement, then you start thinking about him being done. However, if the FO is willing to do another off-season of being active in free agency and they have another strong draft, I doubt we are having this conversation next season.

[Wes Mantooth]

(11-17-2020, 02:17 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'm watching my college team go through this same process, and watching the same comments on social media...lol. We shit canned the last coach midway through year 2 and we're back to rebuilding with a totally new philosophy AGAIN. The previous coach won a national title, then just essentially quit coaching. He let the talent in the trenches go to shit, sound familiar? The team still hasn't rebounded 4-5 years later.
 

Florida State?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-16-2020, 06:12 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: What alot of people fail to realize is that zac Taylor doesn't have a successful history to use the change the culture mantra..Marvin used it in 2003 but the difference was that he had notable success to look back on with zac he dosen't have that..

It's been a popular notion on these boards lately that zac has them competing and that it's no quit in the team,Marvin teams never quit either and was still competitive down the stretch in 2018..

I was never a fan of this hire I was against it because the last thing we needed with the roster we had was an inexperienced hc..

Marvin's teams never quit? Remember the Minnesota game a few years back? 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-17-2020, 02:24 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Florida State?

Was it that obvious?  

[impactplaya]

(11-17-2020, 02:19 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Couldn't agree more with you.

I get that people are upset and tired of the losses, but let's be honest, this is really year 1 of the rebuild and I don't think Zac is in any danger of being fired.

His first season, he got here late due to the Super Bowl. He had trouble getting the staff together. There was little activity in roster management, and the draft came and they seemed unprepared. 

This year, he has his guy at QB, and got to go out and get players he wanted in the draft and seemed more fluid and prepared. They participated in FA (and have lost several of those FA's to injury) to shore up the roster. 

If you look at it as this is year 1, with a rookie QB that usually means 3 to 5 wins. 

Overall if you take out the Ravens and steelers game, they've played better, been in games and have had a chance to win. I think you'll see Zac here again next season, and if there is no improvement, then you start thinking about him being done. However, if the FO is willing to do another off-season of being active in free agency and they have another strong draft, I doubt we are having this conversation next season.

Kliff Kingsbury would have gotten more wins out of this 
Team this year. 
He got 6 out of the Cards last year.
Zac isnt getting 6 wins this year. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-17-2020, 01:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Honest question here...
What is he trying to change that needed to be changed from a culture perspective?

To me, the biggest change seems to be trying to change schemes.
More specifically, I think it's the defensive scheme adjustment going from a more traditional 4-3 to a hybrid that more closely resembles a 3-4.

The unfortunate solution might be that they need new players who better fit that scheme rather than the current guys being able to adjust properly. We've seen how that's gone.

It's that, it's a bit different offensive philosophy, and there was a "comfort culture" that had become pervasive among the veterans. They were never benched for much of anything. Hell, Taylor cut Preston Brown in year one. That's something that hadn't happened recently under the last staff. Things had gotten stale, and the team was used to losing. They're still used to losing...ha!