Possible 2021 Free agents

[*ochocincos*]

(11-19-2020, 05:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True, he is not a great pass rusher but decent. Damn good run stopper though. He was right behind Khalil Mack at one 
point on PFF I remember in stopping the run off the edge this season before he went down. Should of had that pick on 
the Pig too last game. That sure would of changed the game big time if he came down with that.

I think the best usage for Hubbard is to have him as a starter but rotate him with a pure pass rusher on obvious passing downs.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-19-2020, 05:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think the best usage for Hubbard is to have him as a starter but rotate him with a pure pass rusher on obvious passing downs.

Agreed. Until we get that pure pass rusher besides Lawson he is still our 2nd best pass rusher though.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-19-2020, 05:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Agreed. Until we get that pure pass rusher besides Lawson he is still our 2nd best pass rusher though.

Yep, but I'm already focused on next year. This year is very likely a losing season unless they win out.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-19-2020, 06:03 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yep, but I'm already focused on next year. This year is very likely a losing season unless they win out.

Who is the pass rusher you are wanting to bring in?

[*ochocincos*]

(11-19-2020, 06:06 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Who is the pass rusher you are wanting to bring in?

I'd look to re-sign Lawson, pick up a guy like Derek Wolfe to play 3-4 DE who can kick inside, plus draft two additional pass rushers.

I want two pass rushers in the first 3 rounds honestly.

That way, if Atkins doesn't actually get back to form after his expected offseason surgery, it won't be as big of a hit (hopefully).

For the mock I posted a couple weeks ago, I had traded back and got Carlos Basham in Rd 1 plus Joe Tryon in Rd 3.
In a 3-4 alignment, it would be:
OLB: Lawson, Hubbard with Tryon as a rotational pass rusher
DE: Wolfe, Basham
NT: Reader/Atkins

In a 5-2 alignment:
EDGE: Lawson, Hubbard with Tryon as a rotational pass rusher
Inside: Wolfe, Basham, Reader/Atkins

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-19-2020, 06:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'd look to re-sign Lawson, pick up a guy like Derek Wolfe to play 3-4 DE who can kick inside, plus draft two additional pass rushers.

I want two pass rushers in the first 3 rounds honestly.

That way, if Atkins doesn't actually get back to form after his expected offseason surgery, it won't be as big of a hit (hopefully).

I am down with that.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-19-2020, 06:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'd look to re-sign Lawson, pick up a guy like Derek Wolfe to play 3-4 DE who can kick inside, plus draft two additional pass rushers.

I want two pass rushers in the first 3 rounds honestly.

That way, if Atkins doesn't actually get back to form after his expected offseason surgery, it won't be as big of a hit (hopefully).

For the mock I posted a couple weeks ago, I had traded back and got Carlos Basham in Rd 1 plus Joe Tryon in Rd 3.
In a 3-4 alignment, it would be:
OLB: Lawson, Hubbard with Tryon as a rotational pass rusher
DE: Wolfe, Basham
NT: Reader/Atkins

In a 5-2 alignment:
EDGE: Lawson, Hubbard with Tryon as a rotational pass rusher
Inside: Wolfe, Basham, Reader/Atkins

As much as I know and like Joe Thuney, I don't want to spend that on the line if Spain can show he belongs and maybe XSF with Jordan learning/backing him up.  What the offense needs is a vertical weapon.  A Brandin Cooks-type player.  

The defense is horrible and needs a ton of help, starting on the line.  Not just edge rushers, but guys that can penetrate from the inside.  I don't think Geno is worth much anymore, but hoping to see more from him now that his wife and new baby have made it in to the world without complications from being 5 weeks premature.  

They have an outstanding safety in Bates, and solid CBs, but the front 7 is awful.  LBs asked to cover too long and defensive line doesn't generate near enough pressure nor do a very good job stuffing the run.  The easy way out is to blame the coach, but when these guys are engaged, they are done.  No one separates from their blocks, and no one maintains their edge very well.  Losing Reader was a big blow, but he is one guy.  

This team will never be competitive if against the best teams they are never allowed to punt because their defense can't get any stops.  

[Luvnit2]

In my opinion, this thread is premature. It is way to early to know who the free agents will be as teams will likely sign their own making this thread useless until the deadline to start the FA process.

I guess to some it is fun to speculate and dream, but to me huge waste of time. I suggest we revisit this thread and see how many guys actually made it it to the free agent market in about 3 to 4 months.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-20-2020, 11:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: As much as I know and like Joe Thuney, I don't want to spend that on the line if Spain can show he belongs and maybe XSF with Jordan learning/backing him up.  What the offense needs is a vertical weapon.  A Brandin Cooks-type player.  

The defense is horrible and needs a ton of help, starting on the line.  Not just edge rushers, but guys that can penetrate from the inside.  I don't think Geno is worth much anymore, but hoping to see more from him now that his wife and new baby have made it in to the world without complications from being 5 weeks premature.  

They have an outstanding safety in Bates, and solid CBs, but the front 7 is awful.  LBs asked to cover too long and defensive line doesn't generate near enough pressure nor do a very good job stuffing the run.  The easy way out is to blame the coach, but when these guys are engaged, they are done.  No one separates from their blocks, and no one maintains their edge very well.  Losing Reader was a big blow, but he is one guy.  

This team will never be competitive if against the best teams they are never allowed to punt because their defense can't get any stops.  

I'm honestly curious how much that really will help.
I'd like to not put Brandin Cooks-type money into a vertical weapon unless we know Burrow can actually hit him in stride and prove that it elevates the offense. Would you want to spend $12+ mill a year on Cooks if he ends up just being WR3 in terms of production? I'd prefer to just draft a vertical weapon.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(11-19-2020, 05:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think the best usage for Hubbard is to have him as a starter but rotate him with a pure pass rusher on obvious passing downs.

Not move him inside on obvious passing downs?

(11-20-2020, 11:23 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: As much as I know and like Joe Thuney, I don't want to spend that on the line if Spain can show he belongs and maybe XSF with Jordan learning/backing him up.  What the offense needs is a vertical weapon.  A Brandin Cooks-type player.  

The defense is horrible and needs a ton of help, starting on the line.  Not just edge rushers, but guys that can penetrate from the inside.  I don't think Geno is worth much anymore, but hoping to see more from him now that his wife and new baby have made it in to the world without complications from being 5 weeks premature.  

They have an outstanding safety in Bates, and solid CBs, but the front 7 is awful.  LBs asked to cover too long and defensive line doesn't generate near enough pressure nor do a very good job stuffing the run.  The easy way out is to blame the coach, but when these guys are engaged, they are done.  No one separates from their blocks, and no one maintains their edge very well.  Losing Reader was a big blow, but he is one guy.  

This team will never be competitive if against the best teams they are never allowed to punt because their defense can't get any stops.  

An inside pass rusher is my number one wish. Finding another Geno in the 4th round again would go a long way to setting up the franchise for the next decade but we'll be lucky to find someone as good as that with our next dozen first round picks.

As for the CBs the only two we have under contract for next season are on IR: one of those two has yet to play for the team and the other will be in the final year of his deal. This is a sneaky need that if not addressed this off-season will become a massive need by the time of the next draft. 

[*ochocincos*]

(11-20-2020, 01:38 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Not move him inside on obvious passing downs?


An inside pass rusher is my number one wish. Finding another Geno in the 4th round again would go a long way to setting up the franchise for the next decade but we'll be lucky to find someone as good as that with our next dozen first round picks.

As for the CBs the only two we have under contract for next season are on IR: one of those two has yet to play for the team and the other will be in the final year of his deal. This is a sneaky need that if not addressed this off-season will become a massive need by the time of the next draft. 

Perhaps, but only if he's one of the best pass rushers.
I dont' consider him a great pass rusher, so I'd hope they'd get better pass rushers that he wouldn't have to be in on obvious passing downs.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-20-2020, 12:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm honestly curious how much that really will help.
I'd like to not put Brandin Cooks-type money into a vertical weapon unless we know Burrow can actually hit him in stride and prove that it elevates the offense. Would you want to spend $12+ mill a year on Cooks if he ends up just being WR3 in terms of production? I'd prefer to just draft a vertical weapon.

I don't mean to imply that we need Brandin Cooks specifically, but that type of player.  As much as people hate Ross around here, when he was on the field, Green and Boyd and Eifert ate very well underneath.  You need someone to stretch the field and force defenses to defend every inch of it.  Look at how KC uses Hill, how pitt uses Washington,etc. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-20-2020, 01:38 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Not move him inside on obvious passing downs?


An inside pass rusher is my number one wish. Finding another Geno in the 4th round again would go a long way to setting up the franchise for the next decade but we'll be lucky to find someone as good as that with our next dozen first round picks.

As for the CBs the only two we have under contract for next season are on IR: one of those two has yet to play for the team and the other will be in the final year of his deal. This is a sneaky need that if not addressed this off-season will become a massive need by the time of the next draft. 

Basing it just on history, I can see WJIII walking, signing Mackenzie Alexander, and drafting CB #1.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-17-2020, 01:49 AM)J24 Wrote: 1.) They have William Jackson and Carl Lawson both as free agents. It will be interesting to see who they keep between those two. I think it will be Lawson and would not be surprised if they trade him to a team for a day 2 pick.
2.) Kwon Alexander will be a Bengal replacing Bynes as the yearly Lb signing.
3.) I would like to see what the Bengals do at 3T next year. To me that's the biggest need on the team. Wouldn't mind trading for a Grady Jarrett like player!

As of right now, neither is my answer. Jackson continues to distance himself further and further away from his impressive 2017 season, and I simply don't trust Lawson as anything more than a backup pass rush specialist.

Atkins will be fine once his shoulder gets healthy over the offseason.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-20-2020, 02:34 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: As of right now, neither is my answer. Jackson continues to distance himself further and further away from his impressive 2017 season, and I simply don't trust Lawson as anything more than a backup pass rush specialist.

Atkins will be fine once his shoulder gets healthy over the offseason.

Lawson still is our best pass rusher and we need pass rushers worse than anything. Pay the man is my opinion.

Lawson has also got better at stopping the run this year, something I always hated on him about.

Hope you are right about Geno.

[MasonDT70]

How about a fast wr? There are a few that should be available. Kenny stills and Curtis Samuel should be available and not too expensive.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-20-2020, 05:11 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Lawson still is our best pass rusher and we need pass rushers worse than anything. Pay the man is my opinion.

Lawson has also got better at stopping the run this year, something I always hated on him about.

Hope you are right about Geno.

I am fine with paying Lawson, just not as a starter. I don't know the backup pass rush specialist market so I can't propose a number.

Lawson has gotten better at stopping the run, but it's come at the cost of his pass rushing. It is hard to tell how much of it is Anarumo... but in the first 3 games Lawson played <60% of the snaps. He had 3 sacks. In the next 6 games he's played >60% of the snaps and he's gotten 0.5 sacks including 0.0 in the 4 games he started.

Lately he is still getting QB hits but no sacks. That makes me think the extra snap load has taken a step away from his pass rushing leaving him quick enough to get a hit, but too slow for a sack.

So it doesn't look like he can be a productive player both against the run AND pass (or with a large workload), and he has dubious-at-best durability. Just can't invest real money into that huge of a red flag. 

Dunlap would play 75-85% of the defensive snaps and stay healthy and productive. You're almost certainly never going to get that from Lawson.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-20-2020, 06:46 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I am fine with paying Lawson, just not as a starter. I don't know the backup pass rush specialist market so I can't propose a number.

Lawson has gotten better at stopping the run, but it's come at the cost of his pass rushing. It is hard to tell how much of it is Anarumo... but in the first 3 games Lawson played <60% of the snaps. He had 3 sacks. In the next 6 games he's played >60% of the snaps and he's gotten 0.5 sacks including 0.0 in the 4 games he started.

Lately he is still getting QB hits but no sacks. That makes me think the extra snap load has taken a step away from his pass rushing leaving him quick enough to get a hit, but too slow for a sack.

So it doesn't look like he can be a productive player both against the run AND pass (or with a large workload), and he has dubious-at-best durability. Just can't invest real money into that huge of a red flag. 

Dunlap would play 75-85% of the defensive snaps and stay healthy and productive. You're almost certainly never going to get that from Lawson.

Thanks for the snap count, didn't know all that. We just need a couple more pass rushers on this team to keep them all
fresh. The rest of the guys just aren't getting it done. This I think is the biggest reason why this Defense is sucking. No 
pass rush, so you keep guys like Lawson around at a reasonable price considering all you speak of.

Lawson is still always lost in coverage and this has to be taken into account with what we pay him, but pay him.

[DYT_Bengal]

Moneyball players tend to pan out the most for the Bengals whether it be Pac-Man Jones, Mackenzie Alexander, Reggie Nelson, etc. It sucks to have the majority of large cap players sit out for most of the season (Trae Wayne’s, DJ Reader). I would rather take on 4-5 more adequate players with upside and play the lotto.