Zak Taylor's replacement

[thillan]

(11-18-2020, 12:18 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I will say, floating a bunch of potential replacements, no matter how qualified or good of a coach we believe them to be, is almost a futile exercise if another hire doesn't occur first.

Before the team looks for a new coach (not saying they will) they need to look for a GM.  Until that happens, I'm afraid none of it really matters in terms of building a true contender.

We'd all be better off listing off GM candidates than HC candidates.  Bring in the right GM, and he'll hopefully build out the right staff.

Is GM ever going to happen while Mike is still running the team? I really have just buried it a while ago. Hoping that in the future we will build scouting department, get a GM, etc.. you know, a NFL team.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-18-2020, 12:17 PM)RiverRat13 Wrote: Missed where I called him a genius. And I agree that he has more helium than maybe he should due to modernizing LSU's offense, a move that many other guys probably could have made.  But looking strictly at results, he does have two good seasons as a coordinator compared to zero for Zac (Carolina is 7th in DVOA offensively, the Bengals are 26th).  Especially looking at Zac's resume when hired.  Brady wouldn't be my first choice, but you have to be realistic in who the Bengals can attract.

Never said you did; that just me using the word.

DVOA is good, but the raw numbers haven't been stellar; the Panthers don't strike me as a feared or even above average offense and it's not like their D has been awful as well.

They are 3-7, after all.

[impactplaya]

Each day that goes by and each loss that accumulates
The Zac Taylor FanClub is running out of reasons to retain him

[Benton]

(11-18-2020, 11:14 AM)PhilHos Wrote: While I'm fine letting the rest of the year play out before deciding on whether or not to give Zac one more year (anything less than 5 wins after last season's 2 guarantees a boot to the ass if I'm the owner), let's not forget that Marvin Lewis took over a 2-14 team and went 8-8 his first season. Dude also has a winning record as HC of the Bengals. I'm not saying I want him back, but in today's NFL it is more than possible for a new HC to come right in and turn things around within a season or 2. 

Fair point, but marvin also walked in to a much more talented roster. Zac walked in to Andy dalton and aj on the back side of their careers, a bad ol and nothing on defense.

[Hoofhearted]

(11-18-2020, 12:18 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I will say, floating a bunch of potential replacements, no matter how qualified or good of a coach we believe them to be, is almost a futile exercise if another hire doesn't occur first.

Before the team looks for a new coach (not saying they will) they need to look for a GM.  Until that happens, I'm afraid none of it really matters in terms of building a true contender.

We'd all be better off listing off GM candidates than HC candidates.  Bring in the right GM, and he'll hopefully build out the right staff.

Good point, it'll be like replacing the gutters when the roof is leaking. But Duke out-lasted ML, if he didn't go with Marv, he's a lifer. It's really a non-discussion unless he wants to go IMO he's been here since the turn of the millennium. Sucks because he did well for a number of years, but the 2015 draft and the 2017 and 2018 first round busts should have cost him his job.

[kalibengal]

(11-18-2020, 11:06 AM)RiverRat13 Wrote: I doubt they'd replace a young, inexperienced guy with another, but Joe Brady would be a name to throw out there.  Unlike Zac, he actually has a couple of years of results on the resume.

I'm tired of hearing about these Joe Brady Offensive genius types.....THIS TEAM PLAYS 6 GAMES PER YR IN AFC NORTH. We need to adapt to what we are dealing with yr after yr  Pitt and Balt are smash mouth and always have been...Brownies are pretty close to that now too.....
We need a Del Rio hard nosed guy with a good Offensive Coordinator to whip these guys onto shape. Zack is too young and soft...and it shows.

[Sled21]

Any coach that was a HC and was fired was fired for a reason. That said, this is all an exercise in futility. MB has seen the disastrous results of the coaching carousel in Cleveland, and will give Taylor at least 3 years before making a change. The front office has said as much that they viewed the hire in such a way.

[wildcatnku24]

(11-18-2020, 12:22 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Each day that goes by and each loss that accumulates
The Zac Taylor  FanClub is running out of reasons to retain him

Nope.  I'm easily still a proud member of said fanclub.  We're still seeing the Bengals do things we haven't seen them do (FA, signing folks constantly, let's call it roster management) and that all started with Zac walking in the door.  We're improving.  I like seeing progress.  W's and L's aren't the only way progress is measured.  Sure, it is the only way from a standings perspective, but I firmly believe the wins will come based on the eye test weekly.  

Perhaps a less futile exercise than most on this board would be naming said fanclub!  

[Wes Mantooth]

(11-18-2020, 12:53 PM)kalibengal Wrote: .THIS TEAM PLAYS 6 GAMES PER YR IN AFC NORTH. We need to adapt to what we are dealing with yr after yr  Pitt and Balt are smash mouth and always have been...Brownies are pretty close to that now too.....

No offense, but there is no single thing I disagree more with this long outdated thinking.

People always say this, but this logic hasn't been true in forever.  People were still calling Pittsburgh a "smash mouth team" when they were near the top of the league in pass attempts under Arians.  They were throwing the ball more than almost every other team.  Ben was heaving the ball 500+ times a season.

Ben Roethlisburger is currently 7th in attempts this season.  The Steelers are 25th in rushing yards.  Pittsburgh hasn't been a smash mouth team in a long, long time.  Unless "smash mouth" has somehow morphed into just having a good defense.

The Ravens aren't a smash mouth team either.  They run a read-option for Christ sake.  They run a ton of shotgun, and employ a super modern QB.  This isn't smash-mouth football.  Again, unless smash mouth means having a good defense.

The Browns?  They run the ball well.  But also, not smash mouth either.  They employ one of the highest paid duo's of WR's in the enitre league.  They paid out the highest contract to a FA TE this season.  They have another 1st round TE they just drafted a couple of years ago.  They also drafted another one relatively high this year.  They employ a more than average mobile QB.  Their team is built with tons of weapons, not lets line it up and ram it down your throat smash mouth football.

And even if all the above wasn't true (it is), the idea that you have to build your team out to mirror your division peers is absolutely ridiculous.  You build the very best team you can, in the way you envision ultimate success.  You make, not only your division oppenents, but everyone else around the league.

We need to build the very best team we possibly can.  A team that cannot only beat Pittsburgh and Baltimore, but can also potentially beat teams like the Seahwaks, the Saints, the Chiefs, and the Bills.  I can't think of any other division, or team, that builds out their team with the thought process "this is NFC South football".

The AFC North isn't smash mouth and hasn't been in forever.  And even if it were (it's not), that doesn't mean we can't build out our team like any other successful team outside of the division.  The idea, that someone like the Chiefs or the Saints, couldn't compete in this division because they're not built for smash mouth football is the god damn dumbest thing I've ever heard.

tldr The term smash mouth football should've died around the turn of the century.

[thillan]

(11-18-2020, 01:30 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: No offense, but there is no single thing I disagree more with this long outdated thinking.

People always say this, but this logic hasn't been true in forever.  People were still calling Pittsburgh a "smash mouth team" when they were near the top of the league in pass attempts under Arians.  They were throwing the ball more than almost every other team.  Ben was heaving the ball 500+ times a season.

Ben Roethlisburger is currently 7th in attempts this season.  The Steelers are 25th in rushing yards.  Pittsburgh hasn't been a smash mouth team in a long, long time.  Unless "smash mouth" has somehow morphed into just having a good defense.

The Ravens aren't a smash mouth team either.  They run a read-option for Christ sake.  They run a ton of shotgun, and employ a super modern QB.  This isn't smash-mouth football.  Again, unless smash mouth means having a good defense.

The Browns?  They run the ball well.  But also, not smash mouth either.  They employ one of the highest paid duo's of WR's in the enitre league.  They paid out the highest contract to a FA TE this season.  They have another 1st round TE they just drafted a couple of years ago.  They also drafted another one relatively high this year.  They employ a more than average mobile QB.  Their team is built with tons of weapons, not lets line it up and ram it down your throat smash mouth football.

And even if all the above wasn't true (it is), the idea that you have to build your team out to mirror your division peers is absolutely ridiculous.  You build the very best team you can, in the way you envision ultimate success.  You make, not only your division oppenents, but everyone else around the league.

We need to build the very best team we possibly can.  A team that cannot only beat Pittsburgh and Baltimore, but can also potentially beat teams like the Seahwaks, the Saints, the Chiefs, and the Bills.  I can't think of any other division, or team, that builds out their team with the thought process "this is NFC South football".

The AFC North isn't smash mouth and hasn't been in forever.  And even if it were (it's not), that doesn't mean we can't build out our team like any other successful team outside of the division.  The idea, that someone like the Chiefs or the Saints, couldn't compete in this division because they're not built for smash mouth football is the god damn dumbest thing I've ever heard.

tldr The term smash mouth football should've died around the turn of the century.

Agreed. I mentioned this in another thread a few days ago, but if you put teams like the Chiefs or Saints in this division, do you think they are suddenly a bad team? You build a team to win the Superbowl.

[Murdock2420]

(11-18-2020, 11:44 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Here's a list of names of potentional options.  Whether you think they would come here or not, or if you think they're a good fit, is up to you.

Eric Bienemy (KC OC)
Robert Saleh (SF DC)
Joe Brady (Car OC, former Burrow OC at LSU)
Brian Drabol (Bills OC)
Dan Quinn (Atl HC, former Sea DC)
Raheem Morris (Atl Int HC, former TB HC)
Byron Leftwhich (TB OC)
Arthur Smith (Ten OC)
Gary Kubiac (Min OC)
Matt Eberflus (Ind DC)
Wink Martindale (Bal DC)
Greg Roman (Bal OC)
Josh McDaniels (NE OC)

College Coaches who have been floated as making the jump to the NFL:  Matt Campbell, Dabo Swinney, Lincoln Riley, PJ Fleck, David Shaw

There's tons of options, this is just what I came up with in about 5 minutes.  There's plenty of more potential and worthy candidates.  Maybe they're silk, or a thong.  Maybe there's someone really cool I don't even know about.  What, I thought we were in the trust tree?

I like the list but I'm passing on McDaniels. His disaster in Denver and the Indianapolis "I'm the coach, no I'm out" routine, I just feel like this guy is really getting press because of Belichick and so far his assistants who have left have all seemed to struggle.

Have to keep an eye on Mike Zimmer as well, as he could end up out in Minnesota still. Would love to have him back here as the head coach or even as the def coordinator again. He still lives in northern Kentucky, so it shouldn't be too hard to convince him to coach here. Biggest plus, he is used to dealing with Mike Brown's non-sense.

[fortyyearfan]

(11-18-2020, 11:10 AM)capitalist_pig Wrote: If there was a ton of talent on the roster I would get firing the guy, but that isn't the case.  The defensive line is second to last against the run in almost every metric, second to last in sacks and dead last in forced fumbles.  Your DB's get smoked in the red zone giving up the most passing TD's of any team.  To be honest I think your inability to stop the run is masking the deficiencies in your secondary but those same deficiencies are exposed in the red zone.

Offensively your offensive line is one of the worst in football talent wise.  The run blocking is abysmal and the pass blocking is suspect giving up the second most sacks on the season.

Zac Taylor's play calling sucked at the beginning of the year, but in the last few weeks I have found it to be way more creative tying together the run game and pass game very well using formations.  I thought the guy sucked to start the year looking very predictable but now, I think he has gotten it together and starting to put together an offense.

You have to have talent to succeed in the NFL, and right now you guys look to be 2 seasons away from fixing all of your problems.  But the good news is you have a franchise QB and an innovative offensive coach, which is 9/10ths of the puzzle in today's NFL.

Biggest mistake on the year in my opinion was not moving vets during the trade deadline to stack up draft picks and go younger.  AJ Green and Geno Atkins needed to be moved.

To me,this team just flat out SUCKS in every way, no defense, terrible special teams and just awlful players with the exception of a few.A.J.Green needs to go away,he is just awlful and is costing the team big time.I for one hope he is gone after this season unless he just lights it up rest of way,which is not going to happen. I still say Joe Mixon is not the same player as he once was. Zac Taylor is a massive yapper and I am starting to not like him.I mean we are NOT WINNING with him and I personally feel he is not tough enough. He thinks you can talk guys into winning and that does not work. Of course he will be back next year and I do not see him winning this division,its just too much for him. The way they played sunday finally did it for me. What a suck performance.They are once again a HUGE embarrassment for our city.This franchise is a joke. They may win one more game as players have already packed it in.

[TecmoBengals]

(11-18-2020, 09:29 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: To start off I for one would give him 1 if not 2 more years.

I don't have a replacement for him but laugh at the people on the board who think the best solution is always to fire the coach.
Firing coach should be the last thing you want to do. It could dramatically change how your team is being built and set you back 2-3 more years.

Those that are clamoring to have Zak Taylor fired, what staff are you going to bring in to replace him with. Before you say someone you need to make sure that they would actually coach here.

Bill Cowher - Would not come out of retirement to coach the Bengals.
Tony Dungy - Would not come out of retirement to coach the Bengals.
Rex Ryan - Would not come out of retirement to coach the Bengals and we would not want him as a HC.

Lets see who you got.

Well, somewhere right now there is a below average college offense mired in mediocrity. Eventually, through connections and luck the offensive coordinator of that under performing college offense will land an NFL job as a RB, QB, or WR coach. That dude will eventually replace Zac.

If defense is the 'it' thing, we'll be getting a scub DL coach from somewhere.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-18-2020, 01:30 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: No offense, but there is no single thing I disagree more with this long outdated thinking.

People always say this, but this logic hasn't been true in forever.  People were still calling Pittsburgh a "smash mouth team" when they were near the top of the league in pass attempts under Arians.  They were throwing the ball more than almost every other team.  Ben was heaving the ball 500+ times a season.

Ben Roethlisburger is currently 7th in attempts this season.  The Steelers are 25th in rushing yards.  Pittsburgh hasn't been a smash mouth team in a long, long time.  Unless "smash mouth" has somehow morphed into just having a good defense.

The Ravens aren't a smash mouth team either.  They run a read-option for Christ sake.  They run a ton of shotgun, and employ a super modern QB.  This isn't smash-mouth football.  Again, unless smash mouth means having a good defense.

The Browns?  They run the ball well.  But also, not smash mouth either.  They employ one of the highest paid duo's of WR's in the enitre league.  They paid out the highest contract to a FA TE this season.  They have another 1st round TE they just drafted a couple of years ago.  They also drafted another one relatively high this year.  They employ a more than average mobile QB.  Their team is built with tons of weapons, not lets line it up and ram it down your throat smash mouth football.

And even if all the above wasn't true (it is), the idea that you have to build your team out to mirror your division peers is absolutely ridiculous.  You build the very best team you can, in the way you envision ultimate success.  You make, not only your division oppenents, but everyone else around the league.

We need to build the very best team we possibly can.  A team that cannot only beat Pittsburgh and Baltimore, but can also potentially beat teams like the Seahwaks, the Saints, the Chiefs, and the Bills.  I can't think of any other division, or team, that builds out their team with the thought process "this is NFC South football".

The AFC North isn't smash mouth and hasn't been in forever.  And even if it were (it's not), that doesn't mean we can't build out our team like any other successful team outside of the division.  The idea, that someone like the Chiefs or the Saints, couldn't compete in this division because they're not built for smash mouth football is the god damn dumbest thing I've ever heard.

tldr The term smash mouth football should've died around the turn of the century.

Spot on.

[impactplaya]

(11-18-2020, 01:18 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: Nope.  I'm easily still a proud member of said fanclub.  We're still seeing the Bengals do things we haven't seen them do (FA, signing folks constantly, let's call it roster management) and that all started with Zac walking in the door.  We're improving.  I like seeing progress.  W's and L's aren't the only way progress is measured.  Sure, it is the only way from a standings perspective, but I firmly believe the wins will come based on the eye test weekly.  

Perhaps a less futile exercise than most on this board would be naming said fanclub!  

If Zac can get this team to finish above .500 this year and 
Beat the Steelers and Ravens in December than I.can 
Say there is progress. 
Anything less than.that is just regressing.
Even.the Browns after 1 year canned Freddie Kitchens.
Seems to be that has worked out in Cleveland

[BengalChris]

(11-18-2020, 09:29 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: To start off I for one would give him 1 if not 2 more years.

I don't have a replacement for him but laugh at the people on the board who think the best solution is always to fire the coach.
Firing coach should be the last thing you want to do. It could dramatically change how your team is being built and set you back 2-3 more years.

Those that are clamoring to have Zak Taylor fired, what staff are you going to bring in to replace him with. Before you say someone you need to make sure that they would actually coach here.

Bill Cowher - Would not come out of retirement to coach the Bengals.
Tony Dungy - Would not come out of retirement to coach the Bengals.
Rex Ryan - Would not come out of retirement to coach the Bengals and we would not want him as a HC.

Lets see who you got.

First off, I wouldn't bother with old head coaches who haven't seen the sidelines in over a decade like the ones you listed.

Secondly, there are some damn good college head coaches out there. There's an abundance of possibilities if you are willing to open your eyes and look.

Thirdly, Taylor hasn't been successful at any level, anywhere in his career. His failures with the Bengals is just a continuation of how well he performed before he arrived.

Lastly, you do not make something better by making is worse first. Taylor has made is worse and that's very easy to see on the field and in scores. Sucking so bad that you are handed Burrow, then continuing to suck ass, just shows that he truly has no legit plan, just like his game planning.

 

[Destro]

Coaches would also have to choose to come here. Regardless of who the players/talent are, they will be working for Mike Brown and the Bengals front office. For some people, those are cons and they may choose to go elsewhere, or stay where they are, instead of coming here.

[Big Boss]

Matt Campbell or Luke Fickell.

[Murdock2420]

(11-18-2020, 04:52 PM)Destro Wrote: Coaches would also have to choose to come here. Regardless of who the players/talent are, they will be working for Mike Brown and the Bengals front office. For some people, those are cons and they may choose to go elsewhere, or stay where they are, instead of coming here.

Very true, there will be several landing spots that are probably more attractive then Mike Brown's meddling.

1) Jets - I hate to say it, since this team is a dumpster fire, but you get the 1st pick, a game changing QB that is probably the best college prospect in the last 10 to 15 years, plus you can deal Darnold for another pick to help reload. The team is dysfunctional, but they will spend money. The right coach in here could flip this quickly, plus bigger market, better exposure.

2) Texans - Franchise QB in Watson, but need help in other areas. Overall the team isn't in a terrible place and again, they do have a good front office as the team isn't too far away from their playoff history.

3) Falcons - This is a really good landing spot. Talent at WR, talent at QB, smart owner, and a few good signings in FA and your back in the hunt.

Then you have the potentially opening places:

Lions, Jags, Cowboys, and Vikings. 

The Jaguars job is probably the only one on the list I can say that is worse then coming here. The Lions is another one that is a possible worse landing spot then here, as they have some history of futility as well.

With the other spots open though, I can't picture the top guys wanting to be under Mike's thumb versus any of the first 3 openings where they will have much more control.

[Murdock2420]

(11-18-2020, 05:15 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Matt Campbell or Luke Fickell.

You shut your ***** mouth!!!!!!

He is exactly where he needs to be!