Zak Taylor's replacement

[Big Boss]

(11-18-2020, 05:15 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: You shut your ***** mouth!!!!!!

He is exactly where he needs to be!

[Wes Mantooth]

(11-18-2020, 09:29 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: Firing coach should be the last thing you want to do. It could dramatically change how your team is being built and set you back 2-3 more years.

Sometimes I think people take talking points from the college and apply it the NFL, somehow believing the logic holds true throughout both levels.  That's the only explanation I have for how a belief like this exists.

In college, yes, firing a coach, to then hire a new one, can be a 2 year+ process.  You may see players transfer out, you may see recruits decommit, and you now have to build an entitely new recruiting pipeline for the following years.  None of these things exist in the NFL.

In no way does hiring a new head coach set you back 2 to 3 years.  In fact, it doesn't set you back even for one year.

Did Marvin Lewis set us back from Dick Lebeau when he turned a 2-14 roster immediately 8-8 roster?

Did Kyle Shanahan set SF back when he turned a 2-14 roster into a 6-10 roster?  Would their Super Bowl appearance under him in year 3 occurred in sooner had they kept Jim Tomsula?

Did Brian Flores set back the great Adam Gase rebuild, or did he make it better?  How is Adam Gase looking in NY?  Does it look like the Dolphins cut bait too soon?

I could give endless examples, where teams not only didn't regress, they immediately improved.

To each their own, but I think the opposite of what you're saying is the actual truth.  If you hang on to a coach for a year or two too long, it can hinder your rebuild for the future.

It's real simple, you have to decide if you think a certain coach is the right guy for the job moving forward.  If your current coach is eliciting a lot of doubt, and showing himself to be incapable, the sooner you move on the sooner you can get things right.  And this process is only more urgent when you have a QB like Joe Burrow, who is playing on rookie contract.  We've only got 2 to 3 more years of him at a discount.  You can't afford to waste them.

If you like Zac Taylor, and you think he's the right guy, then that's fine.  You're entitled to your opinion, and a case can certinly be made as to why you believe in him.  But let's not pretend we have to keep him longer just because we'll set ourselves back if we move on.  That's simply not true.  And, no offense, but it seems like a desperate attempt by some to justify retaining him, because they have nothing else to lean on.

[Murdock2420]

(11-18-2020, 05:17 PM)Big Boss Wrote:

Sorry sorry.... I get touchy... UC looks good and that program needs to keep growing.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-18-2020, 09:29 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: To start off I for one would give him 1 if not 2 more years.

I don't have a replacement for him but laugh at the people on the board who think the best solution is always to fire the coach.
Firing coach should be the last thing you want to do. It could dramatically change how your team is being built and set you back 2-3 more years.

Those that are clamoring to have Zak Taylor fired, what staff are you going to bring in to replace him with. Before you say someone you need to make sure that they would actually coach here.

Bill Cowher - Would not come out of retirement to coach the Bengals.
Tony Dungy - Would not come out of retirement to coach the Bengals.
Rex Ryan - Would not come out of retirement to coach the Bengals and we would not want him as a HC.

Lets see who you got.

Wade Phillips to replace Lou and later Zak if he doesn't start winning some games in a row.

Heard Wade wants a job too. I think lots of coaches would want to coach a team with Burrow at QB.

Not like we don't have good players, we just have shitty coaches and have been hit big time with injury.

[Joelist]

The big problem is no self respecting coordinator with any sort of reputation will come in and coach under ZT. The Turner situation and Anuramo situations show that they key is not coaching well but rather whether ZT likes you.

[kalibengal]

(11-18-2020, 03:46 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Spot on.

Maybe its semantics or whatever regarding the word 'Smashmouth" (and maybe i'm showing my age and no I dont like that 90s band either) but the point I am attempting on making here is when i watch Pitt, Balt and now the Browns, they have more physical teams in my view. From the coaches down to the players. Statistically I agree maybe pitt passes alot but they also have a very physical O line with James Conner pounding it, yrs before that Bettis. Browns now have Chubb and Hunt and in my opinion a good physical O line. Ravens may do alot of RPO  but the O line is massive and very good. The Ds on all 3 of these teams have passionate  good to great players who basically dictate and whoop our asses every game. Coach comparisons: Tomlin vs ZT   comon?  I read something that Tomlin doesn't spend alot of time game planning, he lines it up and does what they do best and its up to the other team to figure it out. He sets the tone with that mentality.  We have ZT and the gang....who cant even sniff a Victory VS Pitt and Baltimore and has already lost to Browns 2X. 0-6 in the Div is not a plan that looks good either way you slice it. 

[bengals67]

I strongly believe that a coach like Dungy or Cowher could be recruited to coach Joe Burrow provided he was given authority to pick his coaches, run the team and hire a personnel guy that he supported.

See Raiders recruitment of Gruden and Mayock.

This franchise will never win the Super bowl or possibly another playoff game before they move if something like this does not happen.

Of course, I am not optimistic that it will happen.

Much more likely that Burrow will be ruined by year three or want out when his rookie deal expires.

[bengals67]

(11-18-2020, 05:18 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Sometimes I think people take talking points from the college and apply it the NFL, somehow believing the logic holds true throughout both levels.  That's the only explanation I have for how a belief like this exists.

In college, yes, firing a coach, to then hire a new one, can be a 2 year+ process.  You may see players transfer out, you may see recruits decommit, and you now have to build an entitely new recruiting pipeline for the following years.  None of these things exist in the NFL.

In no way does hiring a new head coach set you back 2 to 3 years.  In fact, it doesn't set you back even for one year.

Did Marvin Lewis set us back from Dick Lebeau when he turned a 2-14 roster immediately 8-8 roster?

Did Kyle Shanahan set SF back when he turned a 2-14 roster into a 6-10 roster?  Would their Super Bowl appearance under him in year 3 occurred in sooner had they kept Jim Tomsula?

Did Brian Flores set back the great Adam Gase rebuild, or did he make it better?  How is Adam Gase looking in NY?  Does it look like the Dolphins cut bait too soon?

I could give endless examples, where teams not only didn't regress, they immediately improved.

To each their own, but I think the opposite of what you're saying is the actual truth.  If you hang on to a coach for a year or two too long, it can hinder your rebuild for the future.

It's real simple, you have to decide if you think a certain coach is the right guy for the job moving forward.  If your current coach is eliciting a lot of doubt, and showing himself to be incapable, the sooner you move on the sooner you can get things right.  And this process is only more urgent when you have a QB like Joe Burrow, who is playing on rookie contract.  We've only got 2 to 3 more years of him at a discount.  You can't afford to waste them.

If you like Zac Taylor, and you think he's the right guy, then that's fine.  You're entitled to your opinion, and a case can certinly be made as to why you believe in him.  But let's not pretend we have to keep him longer just because we'll set ourselves back if we move on.  That's simply not true.  And, no offense, but it seems like a desperate attempt by some to justify retaining him, because they have nothing else to lean on.

:andy: :andy: :andy:

[Murdock2420]

(11-18-2020, 05:18 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Sometimes I think people take talking points from the college and apply it the NFL, somehow believing the logic holds true throughout both levels.  That's the only explanation I have for how a belief like this exists.

In college, yes, firing a coach, to then hire a new one, can be a 2 year+ process.  You may see players transfer out, you may see recruits decommit, and you now have to build an entitely new recruiting pipeline for the following years.  None of these things exist in the NFL.

In no way does hiring a new head coach set you back 2 to 3 years.  In fact, it doesn't set you back even for one year.

Did Marvin Lewis set us back from Dick Lebeau when he turned a 2-14 roster immediately 8-8 roster?

Did Kyle Shanahan set SF back when he turned a 2-14 roster into a 6-10 roster?  Would their Super Bowl appearance under him in year 3 occurred in sooner had they kept Jim Tomsula?

Did Brian Flores set back the great Adam Gase rebuild, or did he make it better?  How is Adam Gase looking in NY?  Does it look like the Dolphins cut bait too soon?

I could give endless examples, where teams not only didn't regress, they immediately improved.

To each their own, but I think the opposite of what you're saying is the actual truth.  If you hang on to a coach for a year or two too long, it can hinder your rebuild for the future.

It's real simple, you have to decide if you think a certain coach is the right guy for the job moving forward.  If your current coach is eliciting a lot of doubt, and showing himself to be incapable, the sooner you move on the sooner you can get things right.  And this process is only more urgent when you have a QB like Joe Burrow, who is playing on rookie contract.  We've only got 2 to 3 more years of him at a discount.  You can't afford to waste them.

If you like Zac Taylor, and you think he's the right guy, then that's fine.  You're entitled to your opinion, and a case can certinly be made as to why you believe in him.  But let's not pretend we have to keep him longer just because we'll set ourselves back if we move on.  That's simply not true.  And, no offense, but it seems like a desperate attempt by some to justify retaining him, because they have nothing else to lean on.

The set back occurs if you hire the wrong coach again. The track record under Mike Brown indicates that it is more likely he will hire the wrong guy then find the correct replacement.

You have some valid examples, but the non Bengal examples have something in common. A team with a plan and a front office that was committed to the plan. Everyone wants to sing the praises of Brian Flores in Miami, and sure he has done a nice job, but he also is coming into a situation that was put in motion last season. They gutted the roster last season, and ended up with 3 first rounders and 2 seconds, and etc, etc. Plus they were active in free agency. That is a total franchise commitment to doing it right.

For the Bengals to do it right, the fire sale should have happend. Green, Ross, Geno, Lawson (he's a FA), WJIII, etc all should have been shopped and out of here at the deadline. Only people you keep are guys who are part of it long term. Then you use all the draft capital correctly with a good scouting department and GM to turn it into the right players. Finally, you sign a few key guys to round out the roster and then pair it with a decent coach and you get... the Dolphins season.

The Bengals however, will simply fire Zac, extend A.J., ignore the GM and continue with the same old same old, and bring in a new coach and be like... "why is this still broken??" And we all will bang on the coach as being a failure. At some point, you have to ask, are the coaches we hire all failures or is the team just failing them?

I tend to think the franchise is failing them, not the other way around.

[ah5]

(11-18-2020, 12:53 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I'm tired of hearing about these Joe Brady Offensive genius types.....THIS TEAM PLAYS 6 GAMES PER YR IN AFC NORTH. We need to adapt to what we are dealing with yr after yr  Pitt and Balt are smash mouth and always have been...Brownies are pretty close to that now too.....
We need a Del Rio hard nosed guy with a good Offensive Coordinator to whip these guys onto shape. Zack is too young and soft...and it shows.

Yes, finally someone who gets it!!! Been saying this for like 10 years.

Sent from my BV9600 using Tapatalk

[*jason*]

(11-18-2020, 07:00 PM)bengals67 Wrote: I strongly believe that a coach like Dungy or Cowher could be recruited to coach Joe Burrow provided he was given authority to pick his coaches, run the team and hire a personnel guy that he supported.

See Raiders recruitment of Gruden and Mayock.

This franchise will never win the Super bowl or possibly another playoff game before they move if something like this does not happen.

Of course, I am not optimistic that it will happen.

Much more likely that Burrow will be ruined by year three or want out when his rookie deal expires.

Personally I don't want to hire a guy from 25 years ago to coach this team.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-18-2020, 05:53 PM)Joelist Wrote: The big problem is no self respecting coordinator with any sort of reputation will come in and coach under ZT. The Turner situation and Anuramo situations show that they key is not coaching well but rather whether ZT likes you.

Might be true on Turner, but Anarumo was his last choice. He tried to get some pretty big names first. Was it him, the historically bad defense, Mike Brown, or a combo of it all? Hard to say definitively, but there were a lot of negatives there....

[Coach513]

(11-18-2020, 11:14 AM)PhilHos Wrote: While I'm fine letting the rest of the year play out before deciding on whether or not to give Zac one more year (anything less than 5 wins after last season's 2 guarantees a boot to the ass if I'm the owner), let's not forget that Marvin Lewis took over a 2-14 team and went 8-8 his first season. Dude also has a winning record as HC of the Bengals. I'm not saying I want him back, but in today's NFL it is more than possible for a new HC to come right in and turn things around within a season or 2. 

Agreed, look at Arizona 

[Coach513]

(11-18-2020, 09:29 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: To start off I for one would give him 1 if not 2 more years.

I don't have a replacement for him but laugh at the people on the board who think the best solution is always to fire the coach.
Firing coach should be the last thing you want to do. It could dramatically change how your team is being built and set you back 2-3 more years.

Those that are clamoring to have Zak Taylor fired, what staff are you going to bring in to replace him with. Before you say someone you need to make sure that they would actually coach here.

Bill Cowher - Would not come out of retirement to coach the Bengals.
Tony Dungy - Would not come out of retirement to coach the Bengals.
Rex Ryan - Would not come out of retirement to coach the Bengals and we would not want him as a HC.

Lets see who you got.

We are already set back based off holding on to players who's overstayed their welcome. Miami coach tore a whole team down gain draft capital made smart FA moves all while showing progression towards winning. Zac has been a turd not to mention he's still winless on the road and only 4 wins in two years he's terrible.
As far as head coaches I already saw a person mention Joe Brady 
I for one if we were going to go big name 
Josh McDaniels or Jim Harbaugh 
My college Dark horse would be Mike leach 
Other capable guys is Eric bieniemy and kris Richard 
Bengals option- pauly G, Vance Joseph

Lastly zac doesn't know how to call a complete game 
only way he can get 1 more year is if he turnover playcalling duties switch to a 3-4 and fire anarumo 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-18-2020, 12:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'd look at Bieniemy as HC with Wade Phillips as DC.

I am good with this.

If not Phillips, then at risk of Murdock trying to murder me... maybe give Marcus Freeman a call. I also want Fickell to stay at UC, but Freeman is likely going to go somewhere regardless. Would happily put him as option 1b behind Wade as 1a.

[Murdock2420]

(11-19-2020, 01:16 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I am good with this.

If not Phillips, then at risk of Murdock trying to murder me... maybe give Marcus Freeman a call. I also want Fickell to stay at UC, but Freeman is likely going to go somewhere regardless. Would happily put him as option 1b behind Wade as 1a.

grumble grumble....

Fine... you can have him but you leave Fickell alone 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: grumble grumble....

Fine... you can have him but you leave Fickell alone 

Thought you were a Clemson fan? You must be one of those weird multiple team guy’s...

[Bilbo Saggins]

Kubiak or Harbaugh would be on my short list of desireable candidates, though it looks doubtful that they'd make themselves available.

I'd take a hard look at Darrell Bevell(current OC for Detroit, former OC for Seattle).  He was the guy who lobbied hard for the Seahawks to draft Russell Wilson.  He also helped to build the "jazz" offense from the ground up that makes Wilson so deadly.  KC's offense seems like a rehash of some of Bevell's concepts.

Don Martindale(Ravens DC) is another interesting candidate to my eyes.  The Baltimore defense was good before he was promoted from LB coach to DC, but it has been bona-fide elite ever since he took over the coordinator position.  Going with an "offensive minded" HC might be all the rage, but this guy has a sterling resume and likely has a great rolodex of contacts in the coaching world.

I've seen people make a good case for Pete Carmichael Jr.(Saints OC since '09), but the Saints offense was 1st in the league in '08.  I'd look for guys who built something from scratch or who have piloted a great turnaround over guys who walked into great situations and kept the ball rolling.

For GM I think that if he can make a convincing pitch that he can handle the contracts/math/bean counting aspect of the job, you offer the moon to Mike Borgonzi and never look back.  

I would NOT consider McDaniels after what he did to the Colts.  Absolutely untrustworthy type of a dude.

Jerrod Mayo and Anthony Lynn could be very interesting coordinator hires if they're available next year.

The current state of affairs just isn't fair to ZT, Joe Burrow, any of the players, or the fans.  The guy just wasn't ready.  There couldn't be a better time to start fresh with a total reboot.  If they find some good executive decision makers, this young core can be dangerous.

[Murdock2420]

(11-19-2020, 03:31 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Thought you were a Clemson fan? You must be one of those weird multiple team guy’s...

Fan of Clemson since I was in High School, wanted to go there actually just didn't work out. Graduated from U.C. so, it's only those two teams I follow. 

Plus, living in Cincinnati it would be nice if one local team didn't completely suck ass. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-19-2020, 05:10 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Fan of Clemson since I was in High School, wanted to go there actually just didn't work out. Graduated from U.C. so, it's only those two teams I follow. 

Plus, living in Cincinnati it would be nice if one local team didn't completely suck ass. 

We got a minor league hockey team that’s always pretty damn good.