Thuney and Warford

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-23-2020, 05:59 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: No on Warford.  He hasn't been very good recently.

I think Spain and a premier OG FA would be perfect.

Huh? He’s went to the Pro Bowl the last 3 years straight.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-23-2020, 06:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yes. All that matters is protecting the franchise. If the defense sucks for a couple more years so be it. Burrow has shown he can keep us in most games anyway even with a terrible defense. Imagine if he actually has a good OL and running game...

Meh.

If this team gets a really good OL but has a terrible defense, I see issues like we saw in the Chuck Bresnahan era: disappointing seasons because the team can't stop the opposition from scoring.

2005: 11-5 and postseason berth, but lost the last 4 games allowing 31+ points each (inc. playoffs). Defense was 22nd in points allowed, 28th in yards allowed.
2006: 8-8 record despite having 8th best offense in the league. Defense was 17th in points allowed, 30th in the league in yards allowed.
2007: 7-9 record despite having 11th best scoring offense and 10th best in yards. Defense was 24th in points allowed, 27th in yards allowed.

While I get what you are saying, the defense continuing to be bad would frustrate me.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-23-2020, 07:00 PM)Whatever Wrote: Hopkins is a bad run blocker and Hart is a bad pass blocker, though, so they are average at best, overall.  With Spain, you have to consider that the Bills are a playoff team and didn't even value him as quality depth in case a starter went down.  While he's been better than what we've put out there, he is still far from good.  I give him credit for playing well considering the circumstances, but he's shown nothing to me that says he should be resigned and penciled in as a starter.

They've had Tate through 2 TC's and got an extended look at him last year.  He isn't the answer.  He hasn't impressed outside of the Titans game.  Even worse, undersized CB's have shown how you can erase his size advantage through solid positional play.  If you sit AJ to plug him in as the #3, people will just blame Finley if he doesn't produce, anyways.

We are more than a year away, sadly.  We can't keep refusing to accept the situation.  We need to get away from this "If this scrub and that scrub step up, we get immediate starters with our first 3 picks, and nobody gets hurt..."mindset.  

I didn't really watch football through the lost decade.
I don't know how many more seasons I can stay interested without getting back to the postseason.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-23-2020, 07:09 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Meh.

If this team gets a really good OL but has a terrible defense, I see issues like we saw in the Chuck Bresnahan era: disappointing seasons because the team can't stop the opposition from scoring.

2005: 11-5 and postseason berth, but lost the last 4 games allowing 31+ points each (inc. playoffs). Defense was 22nd in points allowed, 28th in yards allowed.
2006: 8-8 record despite having 8th best offense in the league. Defense was 17th in points allowed, 30th in the league in yards allowed.
2007: 7-9 record despite having 11th best scoring offense and 10th best in yards. Defense was 24th in points allowed, 27th in yards allowed.

While I get what you are saying, the defense continuing to be bad would frustrate me.

We just spent a fortune on the defense in FA. It would be nice to see Waynes, Reader, and Bell all on the field together to really know where we stand with those additions. One thing I know for sure is I don’t think WJ3 or Lawson are worth overpaying for. If they want top tier money let them walk. We can concentrate on CB and DL heavily in the draft the next couple years if we do the right thing and bring in immediate help on the OL in FA.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-23-2020, 07:14 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We just spent a fortune on the defense in FA. It would be nice to see Waynes, Reader, and Bell all on the field together to really know where we stand with those additions. One thing I know for sure is I don’t think WJ3 or Lawson are worth overpaying for. If they want top tier money let them walk. We can concentrate on CB and DL heavily in the draft the next couple years if we do the right thing and bring in immediate help on the OL in FA.

Waynes and Bell aren't stellar in coverage and Reader isn't a great pass rusher.
So I'm not hopeful that they will make a big difference.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-23-2020, 07:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Waynes and Bell aren't stellar in coverage and Reader isn't a great pass rusher.
So I'm not hopeful that they will make a big difference.

That’s what you want to hear after spending 150 million in FA!

[Whatever]

(11-23-2020, 07:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I didn't really watch football through the lost decade.
I don't know how many more seasons I can stay interested without getting back to the postseason.

History shows us that you can get to the playoffs with a great offense and a crap defense.  It should be even easier now that the playoffs have been expanded.  Focusing on building a great offense doesn't necessarily mean missing the playoffs, though it does mean we aren't true SB contenders.  Get 2-3 actual good OL, a legit deep threat WR3, and an RB2 that can carry the load if Joe goes down and that's a scary offense.  Plus, you've got at least two more years of your offensive core being under contract to fix the D.

I get that people want immediate success, but Burrow has the makeup of a guy who's going to play at a high level for 15-20 years unless you get him completely physically destroyed.  

[*ochocincos*]

(11-23-2020, 08:35 PM)Whatever Wrote: History shows us that you can get to the playoffs with a great offense and a crap defense.  It should be even easier now that the playoffs have been expanded.  Focusing on building a great offense doesn't necessarily mean missing the playoffs, though it does mean we aren't true SB contenders.  Get 2-3 actual good OL, a legit deep threat WR3, and an RB2 that can carry the load if Joe goes down and that's a scary offense.  Plus, you've got at least two more years of your offensive core being under contract to fix the D.

I get that people want immediate success, but Burrow has the makeup of a guy who's going to play at a high level for 15-20 years unless you get him completely physically destroyed.  

I didn't think the expanded playoff change was permanent? I thought it was only for this season.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-23-2020, 07:47 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That’s what you want to hear after spending 150 million in FA!

I feel they were brought in more for their run defense, but the playcalling for defending the run is not good, so that's why I think that.
We've had Bell this whole time and we had Reader for the first month, yet the defense was still bad.
Waynes is a solid CB, but he's not a game changer.

More and better pass rushers would go a long way for this defense.

[Whatever]

(11-23-2020, 08:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I didn't think the expanded playoff change was permanent? I thought it was only for this season.

The owners voted to expand the field to 14 early in the year.  The possibility of 16 this year is due to COVID.

[Essex Johnson]

(11-23-2020, 07:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Funny I was told for years on this very board the exact opposite about the Pats OL..

Well start naming all pros or pro bowl lineman for NE over last 10 years.. hard pressed.. since 2010 they drafted 2 tackles in 1st round and no lineman in 2nd round. They developed well but Brady made them better.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-23-2020, 11:14 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well start naming all pros or pro bowl lineman for NE over last 10 years.. hard pressed.. since 2010 they drafted 2 tackles in 1st round and no lineman in 2nd round. They developed well but Brady made them better.

Convenient to limit it to just from 2010 on. Matt Light was 3X Pro Bowler. Logan Mankins was a Pro Bowler. Thuney was 2nd team All Pro just last year.

Plus they’ve always employed a top OL coach like Dante Scarnecchia. OL has always been a strength up there.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(11-23-2020, 04:12 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: AJ alone frees up 18 million. Plus Dunlap’s money will be off the books.

Whilst that is true DJ Reader gets an extra $3.5m in 2021, Trae Waynes costs an extra $6m, Mixon another $6.5m, Boyd a further $2m and there's your $18m from AJ Green's salary going already accounted for and they aren't the only ones whose money is going up.

Plus the salary cap looks like it's actually going to drop about $25m to $175m.

That's not to go all Hobson and say the Bengals can't do anything but they don't have the space many are assuming they will looking at some of the names coming off. They currently have around $40m but they need to sign their draftees ($12m) and that would still leave another dozen or so to fill out the roster (say another $20m). So in order to add (or to re-sign Lawson/WJIII who are free agents this year or Bates and Hubbard who will be in their last year) they will have to cut. Cutting Hart and Finney saves $9.4m; cutting Geno saves $12.2m and cutting Uzomah saves $5.075m

[Essex Johnson]

(11-24-2020, 03:01 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Convenient to limit it to just from 2010 on. Matt Light was 3X Pro Bowler. Logan Mankins was a Pro Bowler. Thuney was 2nd team All Pro just last year.

Plus they’ve always employed a top OL coach like Dante Scarnecchia. OL has always been a strength up there.

Well that is 12 years i believe of Brady tenure.. convenient that you want to leave that out.. facts back up that NE has won without great lineman as a whole... which again supports the point that a very good to great "franchise" QB can survive and win without a top notch line.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-24-2020, 04:51 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well that is 12 years i believe of Brady tenure.. convenient that you want to leave that out.. facts back up that NE has won without great lineman as a whole... which again supports the point that a very good to great "franchise" QB can survive and win without a top notch line.  

Or you know...we could judge the level of OL play on more than just Pro Bowl appearances...

Really good players get snubbed every single year.

[Essex Johnson]

(11-24-2020, 08:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Or you know...we could judge the level of OL play on more than just Pro Bowl appearances...

Really good players get snubbed every single year.

Amazing coming from someone that mentions all pro.and pro bowl alot.. many are voted by their peers also just admit NE has done well with less at line.. can u ?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-24-2020, 09:45 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Amazing coming from someone that mentions all pro.and pro bowl alot.. many are voted by their peers also just admit NE has done well with less at line.. can u ?

Now NE had a “lesser line” all those years? You’re clueless.

[Hammerstripes]

(11-23-2020, 07:05 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Huh? He’s went to the Pro Bowl the last 3 years straight.

Yeah and he got cut and nobody really showed any interest.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-24-2020, 10:54 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Yeah and he got cut and nobody really showed any interest.  

He opted out. He’d probably be on a team right now if he hadn’t. Regardless, we’re not in a position to be thumbing our noses at a player like Warford. He’d instantly be the best OG on the team. He graded out at 75.8 last year.

[samhain]

Bad news: I strongly doubt that the Bengals will shell out 13-14 mil a year for a player like Thuney.

Good news: They don't need a 14 million dollar player to improve on the guys they currently have.