Another indictment of Turner

[Daddy-O]

(11-26-2020, 08:44 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: All I know is; I feel sick to my stomach when I think about The Bengals right now- and I’m just a fan who really only invests passion in this team. Anyone associated with ownership (hell- the whole team really) should feel infinitely worse than I do.

Somebody has to pay the price for allowing our worst nightmare to happen- even if it was a ‘freak accident’. The organization must show it values accountability. Firing Turner should only be the beginning.

Zac Taylor’s job should be on the line (he should be fired, IMO). We have one more window of opportunity under JB’s rookie contract and that comes this offseason. Hoping Joe recovers and is available at some point early next season (we don’t really need him to be mobile- we need his brains and accuracy) any competent HC should see (and I’m pleading with anyone who can make any real decisions who may happen to read this) that we don’t need stars players at any other skill position on offense as long as JB is the QB. He makes those players stars (yes- he’s that good, even as a rookie), so Invest every single dime you can spare into protecting that guy. Hell, he makes our Michael Thomas look like the other Michael Thomas at times (exaggerated, but you get the point). We don’t need Joe Mixon or AJ Green. Sorry but that’s a fact and in my opinion an indictment against at least the coaches for underestimating Joe’s ‘it’ factor when spending time with the kid. He doesn’t need insurance at the other positions- he is the insurance. Put all the money on OLine and defense. When an offense player produces good seasons- remember it’s all because of joe- when that player wants a big contract- let him walk!!! The guy behind him will be just as good!!!

So the second window of opportunity is now because there good players on defense and we have Joe. This is easily rectifiable but time can’t be wasted.

Sorry for ranting/going off topic.

Well said.  New England and Pittsburgh have done this for years.  Brady made everyone better, even scrubs.  Big Ben, although he has very good receivers now, has carried Pitt on his back since 2004.

If the Bengals organization doesn't put all of their eggs in the o-line basket the next few years they are even more inept than they consistently show.  I'm not saying every draft pick but try to upgrade every year.  Not scrap heap re-treads as usual.  Draft Sewell and go after and get / pay the best free agent guard available.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-26-2020, 10:56 AM)samhain Wrote: Full disclosure: I never liked Turner as a person or a coach and hated the hire from day 1. 

I was on the side of "Hey, let's give him a chance".  We gave him a chance, now it's time to get a real OL coach.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-26-2020, 11:07 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I was on the side of "Hey, let's give him a chance".  We gave him a chance, now it's time to get a real OL coach.

Yes, I agree! Jim Turnstile needs to go.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-26-2020, 10:43 AM)TheBengalsMind Wrote: Still don't know why Willie Anderson isn't our offensive line coach for life. He loves it here, heck a lot of our players go to Willie anyway like Lawson to practice.

It gives the locker room someone that they can communicate too and someone they respect.

Communication is one thing players haven't liked under Zac Taylor. Well, that puts you in a position to change that.

Willie is a HOF. He should and is a Bengal for life.

Willie actually replied to that tweet. People will have up decipher what he meant (eyes emoji) for themselves...

[samhain]

(11-26-2020, 11:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Willie actually replied to that tweet. People will have up decipher what he meant (eyes emoji) for themselves...

I'd be happy to give Willie a shot at the job.  I do question whether he'd want it or not.  Private coaching in Atlanta where he's his own boss and dictating his own schedule/client list is a bit different from the grind of a NFL position coach.  He'll be under whoever the OC/HC is and whatever philosophy they may favor.  He also gets the players that the FO gives him.  

I'd love to see him here, but if I were him, I'd have my own reservations about it.  Lord knows that he doesn't need the money.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-26-2020, 10:59 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Well said.  New England and Pittsburgh have done this for years.  Brady made everyone better, even scrubs.  Big Ben, although he has very good receivers now, has carried Pitt on his back since 2004.

If the Bengals organization doesn't put all of their eggs in the o-line basket the next few years they are even more inept than they consistently show.  I'm not saying every draft pick but try to upgrade every year.  Not scrap heap re-treads as usual.  Draft Sewell and go after and get / pay the best free agent guard available.

Ehh...... The Stoolers didn't have a GOOD oline until about 2016 or so; before then, they continually ran out Trai Essex, Ramon Foster and Marcus Gilbert, below average and overrated guys, not to mention Pouncey, while good, is super overrated as well.

They also didn't get a competent LT until Beachum, but he wasn't a Villanueva-type (who is much better); they always had 1 or two really good players, but 2016 is when the whole line started to be excellent.

[samhain]

(11-26-2020, 11:35 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Ehh...... The Stoolers didn't have a GOOD oline until about 2016 or so; before then, they continually ran out Trai Essex, Ramon Foster and Marcus Gilbert, below average and overrated guys, not to mention Pouncey, while good, is super overrated as well.

They also didn't get a competent LT until Beachum, but he wasn't a Villanueva-type (who is much better); they always had 1 or two really good players, but 2016 is when the whole line started to be excellent.

Damned DeCastro is a cornerstone.  I wanted us to draft him so badly in 2012.  He had the same vibe that Sewell has around him now in relation to being a generational talent at his position.  Between him and Villanueva, they became one of the better units in the league.  Also goes to show that you don't need 5 all pros.  1 or 2 really good to great players can do a lot for a struggling line.  Same with Nelson when he went to Indy.  If you get a great one, everyone around them gets a little better.

[t3r3e3]

(11-26-2020, 08:41 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t think Taylor is going anywhere. I would settle for Anarumo and Turner being replaced at this point. I’m still sick over missing out on Bill Callahan. Complete opposite of Turner (well respected, proven track record etc). He has helped the Browns to probably their first playoff appearance in almost 20 years. And our guy is amidst his what, 3rd or 4th accusation of locker room/character issues? Ugh

Turner is a scumbag, this is well known. Why he keeps getting rehired is beyond me? It’s not like he’s an elite coach, or well known for his innovation. Both he and Anuramo on their best days are replaceable talents. Putting together a coaching staff on the cheap, much like putting together an o line on the cheap, is not a recipe for success. Instead of hiring respected, veteran staff members Zac hired buddies and underachievers.

Burrow getting hurt behind these bums was a logical conclusion. Turner facing accusations similar to his past transgressions was a logical conclusion.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-26-2020, 11:26 AM)samhain Wrote: I'd be happy to give Willie a shot at the job.  I do question whether he'd want it or not.  Private coaching in Atlanta where he's his own boss and dictating his own schedule/client list is a bit different from the grind of a NFL position coach.  He'll be under whoever the OC/HC is and whatever philosophy they may favor.  He also gets the players that the FO gives him.  

I'd love to see him here, but if I were him, I'd have my own reservations about it.  Lord knows that he doesn't need the money.

Those items may also have him best prepared to take the step into team coaching.  As a private coach, he's had to learn to teach specific fundamentals and skill sets tailored to succeed in whatever blocking scheme his clients are playing in.  That means he would have to have the broad knowledge base of all classic and contemporary blocking schemes, as well as the ability to identify players possessing the individual skill sets needed to thrive in each respective scheme.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-26-2020, 11:39 AM)samhain Wrote: Damned DeCastro is a cornerstone.  I wanted us to draft him so badly in 2012.  He had the same vibe that Sewell has around him now in relation to being a generational talent at his position.  Between him and Villanueva, they became one of the better units in the league.  Also goes to show that you don't need 5 all pros.  1 or 2 really good to great players can do a lot for a struggling line.  Same with Nelson when he went to Indy.  If you get a great one, everyone around the gets a little better.

That’s exactly why I don’t understand this “our OT’s are good enough” mentality by the few that don’t want Sewell. Hart might be halfway decent, but he sure as hell isn’t making any OG next him better. Sewell and Jonah could do that for us.

[t3r3e3]

(11-26-2020, 11:39 AM)samhain Wrote: Damned DeCastro is a cornerstone.  I wanted us to draft him so badly in 2012.  He had the same vibe that Sewell has around him now in relation to being a generational talent at his position.  Between him and Villanueva, they became one of the better units in the league.  Also goes to show that you don't need 5 all pros.  1 or 2 really good to great players can do a lot for a struggling line.  Same with Nelson when he went to Indy.  If you get a great one, everyone around the gets a little better.

DeCastro was the superior talent to Zeitler. The Bengals screwed that one up, all though, in fairness, Mike would not have resigned DD anyway.

[samhain]

(11-26-2020, 11:45 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: DeCastro was the superior talent to Zeitler.  The Bengals screwed that one up, all though, in fairness, Mike would not have resigned DD anyway.

Yeah, that's what I tell myself, too.  Dude wouldn't have lasted past his rookie deal here.

[Gdale_Bengal]

Said it all year. Fire Jim Turner.

Spend 175 million in FA and not use it on a better guard or tackle that isn’t often injured. That’s pathetic.

Fire Jim Turner.

[samhain]

(11-26-2020, 12:03 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Said it all year. Fire Jim Turner.

Spend 175 million in FA and not use it on a better guard or tackle that isn’t often injured. That’s pathetic.

Fire Jim Turner.

I still remember a photo on the homepage at the end of last season.  It showed Michael Jordan and Fred Johnson walking down the field together, talked about how ginormous they were, and basically insinuated that the line was fixed.  Ugh.

[*Nately120*]

Any time the media laments us drafting a good player they're just butthurt thst player is going to us and not the Steelers.......er, right?

[Sled21]

(11-26-2020, 08:17 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Anyway, how in the world is my sharing a tweet from a reputable OL coach trolling?

Played at Humbolt State (is that even D2?) and Arena league, did not play in the NFL and does not have an NFL line coach position. Sounds like just another poster....

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-26-2020, 01:10 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Played at Humbolt State (is that even D2?) and Arena league, did not play in the NFL and does not have an NFL line coach position. Sounds like just another poster....

And you sound like just another homer...

Also, you should do some research. He’s highly respected, and many NFL players go to him during the offseason.

[Sled21]

(11-26-2020, 01:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And you sound like just another homer...

Also, you should do some research. He’s highly respected, and many NFL players go to him during the offseason.

I'm not saying anything about firing Turner, I'm just talking about this guy. Played D3 and Arena. If he was such a great lineman, wouldn't he have at least played D-1? If he was such a great coach, wouldn't he at least have an assistant level job in the NFL? He's a salesman criticizing someone who coaches well above any level he personally reached, probably hoping to get a job. Lot's of players who couldn't cut it in the NFL become teachers. (Palmer, etc) This guy never did anything as far as I can tell. I believe there are posters on this board who played at a higher level.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

Just to give some background on the OP, one of Manyweather's clients is Isaiah Prince. I'm sure most of you know this, but apparently Turner called Prince a "thug" in a zoom meeting (and for those of you tone deaf on these things, yes that is racially charged). Manyweather definitely has it out for Turner (for good reason IMO), so it may or may not be because of his actual coaching ability.

Having said that, I never liked the Turner hire, and hope he gets fired. I don't think he will be though. I think much or all of the defensive staff will be gone, but I bet the offensive staff stays intact. For the worse, because Turner sucks.

[Sled21]

(11-26-2020, 01:33 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Just to give some background on the OP, one of Manyweather's clients is Isaiah Prince. I'm sure most of you know this, but apparently Turner called Prince a "thug" in a zoom meeting (and for those of you tone deaf on these things, yes that is racially charged). Manyweather definitely has it out for Turner (for good reason IMO), so it may or may not be because of his actual coaching ability.

Having said that, I never liked the Turner hire, and hope he gets fired. I don't think he will be though. I think much or all of the defensive staff will be gone, but I bet the offensive staff stays intact. For the worse, because Turner sucks.

So why did he call Prince a thug? He hasn't called Hopkins, Hart, Jordan, Spain, Adeniji or any other linemen a thug as far as we know, and they are all African American. Could it be Prince was acting like a thug? I don't know a thing about Prince. (and thug has been around for a long time, with the definition of a violent person, especially a criminal...... long before someone decided it was a racist word)