Argument for and against Sewell.

[lone bengal]

Simple you draft Sewell and protect the franchise. Quality over quantity would be my argument for trading down. If you think Sewell is a can’t miss prospect you take him we can’t afford to miss on anymore draft picks. Plus if you trade down there’s no guarantee the guy you want will be there. Far as Jonah Williams goes I think he can play either side, same with Sewell. Having two good tackles on there rookie contracts would be ideal. Sign Thuney or Scherff in the offseason to address guard and pick the best available player in round 2.

[KillerGoose]

(12-02-2020, 08:01 AM)Jpoore Wrote: We have 0 money for free agency. 0. If we roll out a line of Sewell Redmond/mj, Hopkins, Spain, Jonah. Worst in league. Now, a line of leatherwood, Davis, Hopkins, Spain, Jonah. One of the best on paper.

No it isn’t, on either account. Leatherwood and Davis don’t make this “one of the best on paper” while adding only Sewell doesn’t make this the “worst on paper”. Hell, the Bengals don’t even have the worst offensive line in the league right now.

You always have the possibility of kicking Jonah inside as well.

Sewell - Jonah - Hopkins - Spain - Hart/Hakeem

[Whatever]

(12-01-2020, 09:35 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Just to be out there in left field a bit...it's things like (what you mentioned) that, which make me wonder if someone isn't just bored and trolling on one of their many accounts. 

Not saying anything. Just thoughts that go through my head...

I don't think he's a troll.  He's just an extreme OSU homer that rationalizes ways to draft OSU guys.  He tore down Murray and pimped Haskins hoping we would take Haskins if he fell to us.  He tore down Burrow so we would take Chase Young instead.  This year, it's we are so cap poor that there's no way we can sign a FA G so our only option is to trade down and draft Wyatt Davis.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-02-2020, 12:29 PM)Whatever Wrote: I don't think he's a troll.  He's just an extreme OSU homer that rationalizes ways to draft OSU guys.  He tore down Murray and pimped Haskins hoping we would take Haskins if he fell to us.  He tore down Burrow so we would take Chase Young instead.  This year, it's we are so cap poor that there's no way we can sign a FA G so our only option is to trade down and draft Wyatt Davis.

So he's just the kind of guy that's incredibly wrong most of the time and just doesn't care how it looks?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-02-2020, 08:01 AM)Jpoore Wrote: We have 0 money for free agency. 0. If we roll out a line of Sewell Redmond/mj, Hopkins, Spain, Jonah. Worst in league. Now, a line of leatherwood, Davis, Hopkins, Spain, Jonah. One of the best on paper.

Not using the franchise tag on Green frees up $18M.

Draft Sewell in 1 and best interior OG/C on the board in 2 gives the Bengals Sewell, Spain, Hopkins, rookie, Williams.

[Goalpost]

(12-02-2020, 12:47 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Not using the franchise tag on Green frees up $18M.

Draft Sewell in 1 and best interior OG/C on the board in 2 gives the Bengals Sewell, Spain, Hopkins, rookie, Williams.

Under that scenario, give me Tre Smith in round two. 

[Whatever]

(12-02-2020, 12:32 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So he's just the kind of guy that's incredibly wrong most of the time and just doesn't care how it looks?

In the past, I thought he was just being overly critical of guys to make the OSU guys he pimps every year look better by comparison.  For example, there was some debate for awhile on whether Haskins or Murray was QB1 and Chase Young was considered a generational talent from a schoil that's put out a ton of great pass rushers the past few years.  This year, he's completely off the rails.

For example, he claims we won't have money for a FA G because a Bates extension will be a $15 mil cap hit next year.  I pointed out to him that Budda Baker's extension only carried a $3.7 mil cap hit in year one and extensions usually leave the player's base salary the same and just add signing bonus proration to the cap figure.  He says the Bengals always front load.  I point out that Joe Mixon only has a $4.3 mil cap hit this year.  He still maintains that they will ridiculously front load the deal in a year where the cap is going to down.  Reason being, that's the only way he can rationalize not getting a FA G so he can justify trading down to draft Wyatt Davis.

[*Synric*]

(12-02-2020, 01:36 PM)Whatever Wrote: In the past, I thought he was just being overly critical of guys to make the OSU guys he pimps every year look better by comparison.  For example, there was some debate for awhile on whether Haskins or Murray was QB1 and Chase Young was considered a generational talent from a schoil that's put out a ton of great pass rushers the past few years.  This year, he's completely off the rails.

For example, he claims we won't have money for a FA G because a Bates extension will be a $15 mil cap hit next year.  I pointed out to him that Budda Baker's extension only carried a $3.7 mil cap hit in year one and extensions usually leave the player's base salary the same and just add signing bonus proration to the cap figure.  He says the Bengals always front load.  I point out that Joe Mixon only has a $4.3 mil cap hit this year.  He still maintains that they will ridiculously front load the deal in a year where the cap is going to down.  Reason being, that's the only way he can rationalize not getting a FA G so he can justify trading down to draft Wyatt Davis.

Drafting Penei Sewell and having Adeniji and Johnson gives the Bengals 4 tackles so that makes Bobby Hart a cap casualty. Cutting him would save 6mil that would be nearly what Larry Warford is likely to get (7m to 9m), and I see him as a 1 year prove it deal after being cut for conditioning plus sitting the entire 2020 season.

A line of Sewell - Spain - Hopkins - Warford - Williams would be a nearly veteran offensive line.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-02-2020, 03:43 AM)Jpoore Wrote: And look at that? We should have traded back. Would u rather have burrow or Herbert and 2-3 other high picks? Answer seems pretty obvious. We should have traded back last year and we should trade back this year. But sure go ahead and draft Sewell and still have worst oline in nfl.

Oh stop it, man. The answer IS obvious and it's blatant: Burrow and Burrow any day.

Are you for real?

[Jpoore]

(12-02-2020, 09:34 AM)Synric Wrote: They have money to work with by drafting Penei Sewell that that makes Hart a cap casualty saving almost 6m. Bringing back Spain for 4m and signing say Larry Warford to a 1 year prove it at 8m would put a total of 6m off the cap with Hart's saving.

That brings a mostly veteran line of Sewell - Spain - Hopkins - Warford - Williams.

Finding solid Guards cheaper or later in the draft is more likely than finding a Top Offensive Tackle without paying top dollar. Look at guys that could be available in that 3rd or 4th round pick Deonte Brown, Zion Johnson, Ben Cleveland, Landon Dickerson, Trey Hill...Its a deep IOL draft. I'd like to see them add Trey Hill in the 4th as a possible replacement for Trey Hopkins.


What would you do when the trade offer doesn't come?....Which is more likely.

If we don’t have opportunity to trade down then u draft sewell. But doing that means we’re essentially giving up for next 2 years. We have no pass rush we have a bad secondary.

(12-02-2020, 12:29 PM)Whatever Wrote: I don't think he's a troll.  He's just an extreme OSU homer that rationalizes ways to draft OSU guys.  He tore down Murray and pimped Haskins hoping we would take Haskins if he fell to us.  He tore down Burrow so we would take Chase Young instead.  This year, it's we are so cap poor that there's no way we can sign a FA G so our only option is to trade down and draft Wyatt Davis.

It has nothing to do with osu. I want the best guard in the draft and he plays rg. I also believe leatherwood to be the 2nd best tackle in the draft. In addition we need dline help which trading down would get us.

(12-02-2020, 12:47 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Not using the franchise tag on Green frees up $18M.

Draft Sewell in 1 and best interior OG/C on the board in 2 gives the Bengals Sewell, Spain, Hopkins, rookie, Williams.

No it dosent? We have 41 million not including green.

(12-02-2020, 04:35 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Oh stop it, man. The answer IS obvious and it's blatant: Burrow and Burrow any day.

Are you for real?

Lmfao. Herbert has been just as good if not better than burrow, and u wouldn’t take that plus a couple extra high picks? U off ur rocker?

[Essex Johnson]

(12-02-2020, 04:35 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Oh stop it, man. The answer IS obvious and it's blatant: Burrow and Burrow any day.

Are you for real?

I agree Burrow has had a very good  year but Herbert has played just as good and probably has surpassed him for their rookie season... 




  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-02-2020, 08:58 PM)Jpoore Wrote: If we don’t have opportunity to trade down then u draft sewell. But doing that means we’re essentially giving up for next 2 years. We have no pass rush we have a bad secondary.
It has nothing to do with osu. I want the best guard in the draft and he plays rg. I also believe leatherwood to be the 2nd best tackle in the draft. In addition we need dline help which trading down would get us.
No it dosent? We have 41 million not including green.
Lmfao. Herbert has been just as good if not better than burrow, and u wouldn’t take that plus a couple extra high picks? U off ur rocker?

Oh, in the span of 10 hours the Bengals have gone from $0 cap space in 2021 to $41M. And $18M of that projected $41M comes from not using the franchise tag on Green. According to Over The Cap, there will only be 5 teams with more cap space than the Bengals.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-02-2020, 10:22 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I agree Burrow has had a very good  year but Herbert has played just as good and probably has surpassed him for their rookie season... 




  

On a team that won a game with Tyrod Taylor at QB. You think the Bengals will win a game without Burrow?

[*ochocincos*]

(12-02-2020, 12:47 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Not using the franchise tag on Green frees up $18M.

Draft Sewell in 1 and best interior OG/C on the board in 2 gives the Bengals Sewell, Spain, Hopkins, rookie, Williams.

The tag doesn't "free up" $18 mill. The Bengals only currently are expected to have about $42 mill after rollover is brought into cap, as cap is expected to drop to $175 mill for the whole league. AJ's $18 mill is not factored into that $42 mill.

The Bengals have 30 upcoming FAs including:
WJ3
Carl Lawson
Shawn Williams
AJ Green
John Ross
Mike Thomas
Alex Erickson
Quinton Spain
Alex Redmond
Josh Bynes
Randy Bullock
Kevin Huber
Clark Harris
Brandon Wilson
Xavier Williams
Mackensie Alexander
Leshaun Sims

Obviously, we probably don't want most back, but the point is that's A LOT of roster spots to fill. So that cap is going to get eaten fast, as you can't fill all those spots with just draft picks and the guys coming back from IR/opt out.

About $10 mill will be reserved for draft picks and injury reserve, so the Bengals really only have about $30 mill to work with. Their internal FAs are going to eat into that quite a bit. They may not have the ability to sign a big-name FA unless they make a big cut or two. Guys like Atkins, Hart, Uzomah could (or should) be on the chopping block.

With all that said, I will happily embrace the addition of Sewell and even a guard in Rd 2, but know that the defense is likely going to stay bottom of the barrel for another year. At least if Anarumo is in charge of it with no significant upgrades in FA or the draft.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-02-2020, 11:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The tag doesn't "free up" $18 mill. The Bengals only currently are expected to have about $42 mill after rollover is brought into cap, as cap is expected to drop to $175 mill for the whole league. AJ's $18 mill is not factored into that $42 mill.

The Bengals have 30 upcoming FAs including:
WJ3
Carl Lawson
Shawn Williams
AJ Green
John Ross
Mike Thomas
Alex Erickson
Quinton Spain
Alex Redmond
Josh Bynes
Randy Bullock
Kevin Huber
Clark Harris
Brandon Wilson
Xavier Williams
Mackensie Alexander
Leshaun Sims

Obviously, we probably don't want most back, but the point is that's A LOT of roster spots to fill. So that cap is going to get eaten fast, as you can't fill all those spots with just draft picks and the guys coming back from IR/opt out.

About $10 mill will be reserved for draft picks and injury reserve, so the Bengals really only have about $30 mill to work with. Their internal FAs are going to eat into that quite a bit.

That’s why we need to make more cuts. If they draft Sewell then Hart should be an obvious one. Maybe Geno but I doubt they eat that dead money.

[Gdale_Bengal]

I mean at least this guy gives the posters something to argue about. He’s been wrong like every year too, so most likely we are going to see Sewell a Bengal next year.

Go watch Voch Lombardis all 22 film on Sewell. He ass woops every player he blocks. A 6’6 340lb kid that zone blocks like a dream, pass blocking is already his biggest strength, and looks to hit people when run blocking. No, I don’t think you pass on a player who already has these elite skill sets and not even 20 yet.

You fire Turner and bring in a coach who can mold this player into the all pro he can be.

We are going to chase the best guards in FA. Paul Dehner has already went on record that after this season they are going to try to go get Thuney in FA. They ARE going to improve the line.

They desperately need to improve the pass rush. I think Anarumo will get fired after the season and they are going to try to bring in a coach with experience. I also think they can use another corner too.

Trade? The only team that can trade up with us in Miami in terms of draft capital. I don’t know if they will want to give up enough to move up to 3, but they may move to 4 or 5 for Chase.

I think Sewell is a Bengal unless the Jaguars want Sewell, then I think they take pass rush or Chase.

[Whatever]

(12-02-2020, 11:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The tag doesn't "free up" $18 mill. The Bengals only currently are expected to have about $42 mill after rollover is brought into cap, as cap is expected to drop to $175 mill for the whole league. AJ's $18 mill is not factored into that $42 mill.

The Bengals have 30 upcoming FAs including:
WJ3
Carl Lawson
Shawn Williams
AJ Green
John Ross
Mike Thomas
Alex Erickson
Quinton Spain
Alex Redmond
Josh Bynes
Randy Bullock
Kevin Huber
Clark Harris
Brandon Wilson
Xavier Williams
Mackensie Alexander
Leshaun Sims

Obviously, we probably don't want most back, but the point is that's A LOT of roster spots to fill. So that cap is going to get eaten fast, as you can't fill all those spots with just draft picks and the guys coming back from IR/opt out.

About $10 mill will be reserved for draft picks and injury reserve, so the Bengals really only have about $30 mill to work with. Their internal FAs are going to eat into that quite a bit. They may not have the ability to sign a big-name FA unless they make a big cut or two. Guys like Atkins, Hart, Uzomah could (or should) be on the chopping block.

With all that said, I will happily embrace the addition of Sewell and even a guard in Rd 2, but know that the defense is likely going to stay bottom of the barrel for another year. At least if Anarumo is in charge of it with no significant upgrades in FA or the draft.

Thing is, there will be a ton of guys out there on prove it deals due to the cap shrinking.  Upgrading and filling the depth chart isn't going to be an issue unless we pay big bucks to retain middle of the road starters like WJIII who will have cheaper equivalents out there.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-02-2020, 11:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The tag doesn't "free up" $18 mill. The Bengals only currently are expected to have about $42 mill after rollover is brought into cap, as cap is expected to drop to $175 mill for the whole league. AJ's $18 mill is not factored into that $42 mill.

The Bengals have 30 upcoming FAs including:
WJ3
Carl Lawson
Shawn Williams
AJ Green
John Ross
Mike Thomas
Alex Erickson
Quinton Spain
Alex Redmond
Josh Bynes
Randy Bullock
Kevin Huber
Clark Harris
Brandon Wilson
Xavier Williams
Mackensie Alexander
Leshaun Sims

Obviously, we probably don't want most back, but the point is that's A LOT of roster spots to fill. So that cap is going to get eaten fast, as you can't fill all those spots with just draft picks and the guys coming back from IR/opt out.

About $10 mill will be reserved for draft picks and injury reserve, so the Bengals really only have about $30 mill to work with. Their internal FAs are going to eat into that quite a bit. They may not have the ability to sign a big-name FA unless they make a big cut or two. Guys like Atkins, Hart, Uzomah could (or should) be on the chopping block.

With all that said, I will happily embrace the addition of Sewell and even a guard in Rd 2, but know that the defense is likely going to stay bottom of the barrel for another year. At least if Anarumo is in charge of it with no significant upgrades in FA or the draft.

If the Bengals use the franchise tag on Green for 2021 what happens to that $42M?

[*ochocincos*]

(12-03-2020, 02:14 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If the Bengals use the franchise tag on Green for 2021 what happens to that $42M?

It would drop by at least $16 mill, which is the projected Year 1 franchise tag number. I haven't seen the numbers for being tagged 2 years in a row, but they are higher than the first year.

And AJ Green is not worth $16+ mill to the Bengals. Heck, he really isn't even worth half that.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-03-2020, 01:50 AM)Whatever Wrote: Thing is, there will be a ton of guys out there on prove it deals due to the cap shrinking.  Upgrading and filling the depth chart isn't going to be an issue unless we pay big bucks to retain middle of the road starters like WJIII who will have cheaper equivalents out there.

True, but the Bengals don't typically like to do just a 1-year deal. They did it for Bynes, but he was always intended to be a transition player while the new LBs developed.

They more often prefer 2-year or 3-year deals.
Maybe that changes this offseason, but I would still expect the Bengals to get guys on 2-year contracts over 1-year contracts.