Geno Atkins last 7 games....

[THE PISTONS]

(12-08-2020, 10:01 PM)jason Wrote: Geno played in the HOF game his rookie year... Probably even went inside and had a look and a smell of the place. Fred wins.

On a side note... Why do we like to shit on our guys. Geno dominated for a decade, and was one of the best at his position until very recently.

Yeah man. Same with Dunlap. Dude was a good player for many years. A good guy by all accounts.

Then, the coaches demote him and don't communicate well. He didn't handle himself well, but he was frustrated and wanted away from inept coaching.

He obviously wasn't washed up as he's playing well in Seattle.

There's a thread every year about switching to a 3-4 and we are usually like...no reason to do it because it negates Geno and Dunlap. And them the coaches switch to it, and bam they are both invisible.

[*jason*]

(12-08-2020, 10:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah man. Same with Dunlap. Dude was a good player for many years. A good guy by all accounts.

Then, the coaches demote him and don't communicate well. He didn't handle himself well, but he was frustrated and wanted away from inept coaching.

He obviously wasn't washed up as he's playing well in Seattle.

There's a thread every year about switching to a 3-4 and we are usually like...no reason to do it because it negates Geno and Dunlap. And them the coaches switch to it, and bam they are both invisible.

Agreed...

Also... Don't disappear during a public health crisis. It takes a while to notice, but you start to wonder what happened to people.

[J24]

(12-08-2020, 10:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah man. Same with Dunlap. Dude was a good player for many years. A good guy by all accounts.

Then, the coaches demote him and don't communicate well. He didn't handle himself well, but he was frustrated and wanted away from inept coaching.

He obviously wasn't washed up as he's playing well in Seattle.

There's a thread every year about switching to a 3-4 and we are usually like...no reason to do it because it negates Geno and Dunlap. And them the coaches switch to it, and bam they are both invisible.

The Dunlap & Atkins hate is bizzare both guys  were a part of the core that went to 5 straight playoffs. It was called the Dalton- Green era but in reality it was just as much the Atkins- Dunlap Era. Whitworth should not be forgotten either.

As for the system being the reason for the lack of success I doubt that. The 3-4 4-3 argument is overdone. I think it has more to do with the coaching staff having a grudge against those guys.

[Destro]

Hall of Fame is too hard to get into. Look at the massive backlog of players that should be in and are not. Even look at the 15 finalist this year; ten will likely be back again for years. Look at all the absolute HOFs that will retire in the coming years. hat will push Atkins back. He plays a position that usually doesn't get a lot of love. He has zero SB appearances or even playoff wins. Even the All Decade team he was elected to is full of great players who will not make it into the Hall, as well.

Conspiracy against Bengals or not, the small market team is just not well know nationwide. Especially in the age of mass media, many NFL fans still don't even know him, let alone his play. His play, while excellent, has fallen off of a cliff. The longer you are away from being elite, the more people forget. Added into that, other players start chipping away at what you have done. Stats may be good when you played, but when people are looking at 2 or 3 other players doing the same thing in the league, right now, your dominance gets watered down. Go outside of Cincy and ask 100 NFL fans their top four or five best D lineman in the league and 90 likely won't say Geno. There's a thing some say "Can the story of the league be written without him?" With Geno, yeah, probably so. If he stopped playing tomorrow, it would be a 90 second story on NFL network and 45 seconds on ESPN. If a Watt or Bosa brother or Aaron Donald did, they would make "It's a Football Life" documentary immediately.

Bengals Hall of Fame / Ring of Honor? No doubt ( If there ever is one ).

Not saying I agree with all of the above, but the voters tend to lean these ways and why I think he does not get in.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-08-2020, 10:31 PM)J24 Wrote: The Dunlap & Atkins hate is bizzare both guys  were a part of the core that went to 5 straight playoffs. It was called the Dalton- Green era but in reality it was just as much the Atkins- Dunlap Era. Whitworth should not be forgotten either.

As for the system being the reason for the lack of success I doubt that. The 3-4 4-3 argument is overdone. I think it has more to do with the coaching staff having a grudge against those guys.

I think the players know the staff is a joke. There was a Locked On Bengals Podcast where Elise Jesse came on and basically said that some players feel the coaches need fired. Of course, it was anonymous though too. But supposedly like 10 or so players came to her.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-08-2020, 10:46 PM)Destro Wrote: Hall of Fame is too hard to get into. Look at the massive backlog of players that should be in and are not. Even look at the 15 finalist this year; ten will likely be back again for years. Look at all the absolute HOFs that will retire in the coming years. hat will push Atkins back. He plays a position that usually doesn't get a lot of love. He has zero SB appearances or even playoff wins. Even the All Decade team he was elected to is full of great players who will not make it into the Hall, as well.

Conspiracy against Bengals or not, the small market team is just not well know nationwide. Especially in the age of mass media, many NFL fans still don't even know him, let alone his play. His play, while excellent, has fallen off of a cliff. The longer you are away from being elite, the more people forget. Added into that, other players start chipping away at what you have done. Stats may be good when you played, but when people are looking at 2 or 3 other players doing the same thing in the league, right now, your dominance gets watered down. Go outside of Cincy and ask 100 NFL fans their top four or five best D lineman in the league and 90 likely won't say Geno. There's a thing some say "Can the story of the league be written without him?" With Geno, yeah, probably so. If he stopped playing tomorrow, it would be a 90 second story on NFL network and 45 seconds on ESPN. If a Watt or Bosa brother or Aaron Donald did, they would make "It's a Football Life" documentary immediately.

Bengals Hall of Fame / Ring of Honor? No doubt ( If there ever is one ).

Not saying I agree with all of the above, but the voters tend to lean these ways and why I think he does not get in.

IF Atkins were a Steeler, he'd be in the HOF probably 1st or 2nd ballot. There was a time when his stats were right up there with Aaron Donald.

HOF is hard to get into if you are a Bengal that hasn't won a playoff game.

It sucks. We wasted Green and Atkins careers. Same with Dunlap. Pickens. Dillon. etc.

Other teams have a ring of honor. The Bengals best players almost always leave with some sort of controversy with the franchise?

[Destro]

(12-08-2020, 10:53 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: IF Atkins were a Steeler, he'd be in the HOF probably 1st or 2nd ballot. There was a time when his stats were right up there with Aaron Donald.

HOF is hard to get into if you are a Bengal that hasn't won a playoff game.

It sucks. We wasted Green and Atkins careers. Same with Dunlap. Pickens. Dillon. etc.

Other teams have a ring of honor. The Bengals best players almost always leave with some sort of controversy with the franchise?

People complain about Brown, as he is set in doing it his way. Can understand that mindset of his, without agreeing with the old man, but when he has a stadium, named after his father, who made the damn team, I would think he would be hardcore for wanting a ring of honor for the greatest Bengals of all time. Start with his dad then have at it. 

Yes, and screw the Steelers, including some of their overrated players.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-08-2020, 10:01 PM)jason Wrote: Geno played in the HOF game his rookie year... Probably even went inside and had a look and a smell of the place. Fred wins.

On a side note... Why do we like to shit on our guys. Geno dominated for a decade, and was one of the best at his position until very recently.

You and Fred have a wacky definition for "shitting on our guys". 

He didn't quite dominate for a decade. He was the best DT from 2011-2014, during which time he was injured from mid '13-'14. In 2015 he and Aaron Donald were the 2 best DTs. Starting in 2016 Donald has been #1 with a bullet. 

Geno had a HoF resume up until the end of 2018, barely. For the last 2 years he's been a shell of himself. It's not my fault he can't stay healthy enough to build on his resume. He's in the same boat AJ Green is in--excellent for his first 7/8 years, then fall off a cliff. 

I'd say he's behind, or at best tied with, Kevin Williams and Ndamukong Suh for HoF consideration. Aaron Donald is a lock, right now. Warren Sapp was the last true DT elected in 2013 and he retired in 2007. Before that, John Randle in 2010 and he retired in 2003. Cortez Kennedy slipped in there in 2012 but he had been retired since 2000. All 3 of them were consistently more dominant with AP1's and PB's for stretches than Geno has been. Before those guys, you have to go all the way back to 2002 with Dan Hampton who was at least a part time DE as well. 

Suh was drafted the same year as Geno. He has 1 more AP1 and 2 less 'legitimate' PB's. On Pro Football Reference, his HoF monitor score is only about 2 pts less than Geno, his Career Approximate Value is exactly the same, he has 31 more passes defensed (37 to 6), almost 200 more tackles, 21 more tackles for loss, 21 more quarterback hits and 13 less sacks. How many times have you or anyone thought of Suh as a HoFer?

This has nothing to do with "shitting on our own players" and everything to do with objectively looking at NFL players and their chances at making the Hall of Fame, based on their career, not what my heart says or wants. 

P.S. Geno Atkins plays for the Cincinnati Bengals, where you legitimately have to be the best at your position for a long stretch of time to get HoF consideration. Nothing more than that needs to be said. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-08-2020, 10:07 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I usually agree with rfaulk most of the time, but I do think Geno has at least a decent shot at the HoF.

He does have a decent shot based on who is around him, at his position...if you consider what he's done. His biggest knock is being a Bengal, that's where "won't sniff" comes in, not because he hasn't put up numbers. 

If he does make it, it won't be early after his retirement. The longer it goes, the more 'ken anderson and ken riley' it becomes. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-08-2020, 11:10 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He does have a decent shot based on who is around him, at his position...if you consider what he's done. His biggest knock is being a Bengal, that's where "won't sniff" comes in, not because he hasn't put up numbers. 

If he does make it, it won't be early after his retirement. The longer it goes, the more 'ken anderson and ken riley' it becomes. 

Right now I just want big Willie to get in.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-08-2020, 11:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Right now I just want big Willie to get in.

That would be quite nice. 



And that's coming from a guy that "shit's on our guys". 

[Destro]

(12-08-2020, 11:05 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: This has nothing to do with "shitting on our own players" and everything to do with objectively looking at NFL players and their chances at making the Hall of Fame, based on their career, not what my heart says or wants. 

P.S. Geno Atkins plays for the Cincinnati Bengals, where you legitimately have to be the best at your position for a long stretch of time to get HoF consideration. Nothing more than that needs to be said. 

Yup. Hall of Fame is very, very hard. Deserving, record and ring holding players are still waiting. Push anyone to the fringe and it gets much harder. That is just what it is. 

Munoz got in because they would have to change the name of it being a Hall of Fame if he didn't get in. Straight dominated.

[Destro]

(12-08-2020, 11:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Right now I just want big Willie to get in.

Would be deserving of another thread ( sure there are a dozen already ) but there are a number of Bengals that are in the argument to be there. 

[Older Than You Too]

Tim Mcgee said it best on Monday. He bet anything on WLW that it wasn't the veterans' motivation, but the coaching that ruined our top three players. AJ, Geno and Dunlap were mismanaged and he posited that they would have had much better seasons under any other competent coaching scheme.

That WLW post game was hilarious. Chick Ludwig called out fat Randy's gut protruding his belt. And Tim laughed his ass off at that description.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(12-09-2020, 05:52 AM)Older Than You Too Wrote: Tim Mcgee said it best on Monday. He bet anything on WLW that it wasn't the veterans' motivation, but the coaching that ruined our top three players. AJ, Geno and Dunlap were mismanaged and he posited that they would have had much better seasons under any other competent coaching scheme.

That WLW post game was hilarious. Chick Ludwig called out fat Randy's gut protruding his belt. And Tim laughed his ass off at that description.

It's an age old dilemma: do you scheme around your fading stars who'll be done in a year or two or do you try and build around players that will fit the incoming staff's preferred scheme.

What it highlights is that there seems to be a disconnect between the Bengals Front Office and the Coaching staff. The Front Office wanted them to use Dunlap and Atkins but the Coaches wanted to rebuild in a different direction.

It's now clear that there was no point in holding onto Atkins, Green, Dunlap, Dalton, Eifert etc and they should have been traded away when Marvin left to acquire the draft capital to rebuild with a young, cost-controlled core. It's why - more than the coaching - this rebuild will take longer than the Dolphins'. With further coaching changes inevitable this off-season that just put further delays the Bengals' return to competitiveness.

[Older Than You Too]

(12-09-2020, 08:58 AM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: It's an age old dilemma: do you scheme around your fading stars who'll be done in a year or two or do you try and build around players that will fit the incoming staff's preferred scheme.

What it highlights is that there seems to be a disconnect between the Bengals Front Office and the Coaching staff. The Front Office wanted them to use Dunlap and Atkins but the Coaches wanted to rebuild in a different direction.

It's now clear that there was no point in holding onto Atkins, Green, Dunlap, Dalton, Eifert etc and they should have been traded away when Marvin left to acquire the draft capital to rebuild with a young, cost-controlled core. It's why - more than the coaching - this rebuild will take longer than the Dolphins'. With further coaching changes inevitable this off-season that just put further delays the Bengals' return to competitiveness.

If Taylor had a brain, he would have prioritized these players coming into his second year, if only to pad his resume with a win here or there in the inevitable meeting with the higher ups on his future as a HC. 

If you're given lemons make lemonade, even though I don't think any of those three are lemons. Perhaps the proverb should be: If given old cucumbers, make pickles, since those three are old, but have yet to reach the brine point.