The Bengals and Lions are locked in an 3 decade battle...

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-08-2020, 04:52 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't know, he was saddled with Bob Bratowski when he came in and that dude stuck around for another 7 years.  He also had Chuck Breshnahan, and his patented "bend don't break" defense for a few years too.

IMHO, didn't have decent coodinators until we had Zimmer and Gruden, which was halfway through his tenure.

Agreed, and if those were picked by Marvin, he did pretty damn good there. You also gotta think he was the guy that made Hue OC. Marvin had holes in his game day operations, but he could sure fill out a staff there for a while.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-08-2020, 03:53 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I distinctly remember sitting at a BP on a Sunday morning that the Bengals were playing the Rams in '99, reading the sports page (something people did before the triple dub was a thing). It was an article about the parallels of the teams in the past decade, etc etc. 

If you don't remember, that's the year Kurt Warner came in and led them to a SB win and rest is history. 

The Bengals just branched off that and found another team to contend with for basement-dweller supremacy. 

I remember that! The Bengals and Rams were terrible in the 90's. Then the Rams had what Trent Green get hurt and Warner take over and they became really good!

[t3r3e3]

(12-08-2020, 05:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I remember that! The Bengals and Rams were terrible in the 90's. Then the Rams had what Trent Green get hurt and Warner take over and they became really good!

Rams also had Dick Vermeil, Mike Martz, and Jim Hanifan on the coaching staff, plus Marshall Faulk, and three stud WR’s. Warner was surgical though...

[J24]

At least the lions try and same can be said of the Browns. The Bengals only twice in the last 20 seasons actually attempted to do anything in free agency, have the smallest front office known to mankind, and also have incompetent facilities.

[fredtoast]

(12-08-2020, 05:21 PM)J24 Wrote: At least the lions try and same can be said of the Browns. The Bengals only twice in the last 20 seasons actually attempted to do anything in free agency, have the smallest front office known to mankind, and also have incompetent facilities.

You can give the Browns and Lions all the "participation trophies" you want for the last twenty years, but I'll take the Bengasl winning percentage (.459) which is over 100 points higher than the Lions (.350) and the Browns (.334) plus our 7 playoff seasons which is almost double what the Lions (3) and Browns (1) have COMBINED.

[THE PISTONS]

How do we compare to the Steelers and Ravens?

[muskiesfan]

(12-08-2020, 03:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mike Browns record with Marvin Lewis................. .518 win%, 7 playoffs, only 6 losing seasons in 16 years
Mike Browns record with all other head coaches.. .273 win%,  zero winning seasons in 14 years


Marvin could not win the big games.  He had to go.  But he deserves more credit than he gets from a lot of people here.  He was coaching under a major handicap.

(12-08-2020, 03:59 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Marvin Lewis was the beacon of light during that whole 91-Present era. Literally no one else could win. Did any other coach even win 9 games?

And 2 have failed spectacularly.

I absolutely agree with both of you. What Marvin Lewis did while working for Mike Brown is should damn near be listed as a miracle and Lewis should be sainted by the Vatican.

I understand there are only 32 head coaching positions in the NFL and they're all coveted, but I would have to think the Bengals are at the bottom of everyone's list because of Mike Brown.

[BengalChris]

(12-08-2020, 10:34 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If you look at our entire history there are actually 6 teams with lower winning percentages than the Bengals since 1968.

Jets
Jags
Cards
Browns
Lions
Bucs


I am in no way saying this is anything to celebrate.  I just don't believe in cherry picking a date in order to inflate my claim of victimhood.

I believe the date was Mike Brown taking over and not some cherry picked one.

 

[THE PISTONS]

(12-09-2020, 01:11 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I absolutely agree with both of you. What Marvin Lewis did while working for Mike Brown is should damn near be listed as a miracle and Lewis should be sainted by the Vatican.

I understand there are only 32 head coaching positions in the NFL and they're all coveted, but I would have to think the Bengals are at the bottom of everyone's list because of Mike Brown.

So with the front office and lack of scouts we have, coaches have more demands here...and it's hard to be good at them all.

You have to:

-Scout free agents
-Scout college (which games are played at the same time as the regular season)
-Scout opponents
-Gameplan - Some of this is to be expected, but some teams use scouts to scout opponents.
-Create practice schedule/structure
-Manage players
-Manage player development
-Handle media
-Coach in game
-Manage coordinators and set overall tone/direction for the team

Then, a guy like Taylor calls the plays which adds more complexity.

Marvin, obviously did a bunch of them at atleast an above average to good level. He just couldn't win in the playoffs.

Now, I remember some of us screaming for years that we needed to sign a Center or MLB. In the playoffs, those weaknesses got exploited.

[*Awful Llama*]

(12-08-2020, 02:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: In a lot of ways, the Bengals and Lions are like twins separated at birth.

Of that I am painfully aware.  I was a Bengal fan first, but in the '80s I began to "respect" the Lions.  We used to go to a game or two every season, and  I saw in person Barry play all of his Thanksgiving Day games.  So, I have lumped the two teams together for decades, and there are a few obvious similarities.  Both have cat mascots, haven't known playoff success since the early '90s, are located near I-75, and are (were) controlled by a clueless, stubborn, decrepit dinosaur (Martha Firestone Ford in the Lions' case, though she formerly stepped down this past summer and handed the reins to her daughter). 

Guess I need to pick yet a third team to respect....

[fredtoast]

(12-09-2020, 10:46 PM)Awful Llama Wrote:   I saw in person Barry play all of his Thanksgiving Day games. 

"Turkey Day" is a big deal for Lions fans.  I was at the '97 game when Sanders scored 3 tds and they blew out the Bears.  I was not a a big Lions fan, but I just happened to be in town visiting a friend.  I was always a HUGE fan of Sanders and I was lucky to see him absolutely go off.  He had close to 200 yards and two of the td runs were spectacular.

And it was on my birthday.

[THE PISTONS]

Barry Sanders being on TV was must watch...no matter how bad the Lions have been.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-09-2020, 10:46 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: Of that I am painfully aware.  I was a Bengal fan first, but in the '80s I began to "respect" the Lions.  We used to go to a game or two every season, and  I saw in person Barry play all of his Thanksgiving Day games.  So, I have lumped the two teams together for decades, and there are a few obvious similarities.  Both have cat mascots, haven't known playoff success since the early '90s, are located near I-75, and are (were) controlled by a clueless, stubborn, decrepit dinosaur (Martha Firestone Ford in the Lions' case, though she formerly stepped down this past summer and handed the reins to her daughter). 

Guess I need to pick yet a third team to respect....

Stay away from the Jaguars!

[Bengalholic]

(12-08-2020, 07:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can give the Browns and Lions all the "participation trophies" you want for the last twenty years, but I'll take the Bengasl winning percentage (.459) which is over 100 points higher than the Lions (.350) and the Browns (.334) plus our 7 playoff seasons which is almost double what the Lions (3) and Browns (1) have COMBINED.

It's so frustrating that the Bengals barometer of success is always how we stack up against the worst teams in the league.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-10-2020, 06:15 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It's so frustrating that the Bengals barometer of success is always how we stack up against the worst teams in the league.

Haha. Isn't that the truth? The amount of time spent proving we're not the absolute worst team in the league is amazing.

How about free agency for years...'The Redskins spend money and they don't win.'

[*psychdoctor*]

You cannot group Paul Brown's team achievements with Mike Brown's unadulterated failures with the hope of creating a meaningful perspective of the status of the Bengal Franchise.

Look at all the broken hearts and misgivings in the wake of Mike Brown's leadership. I am unaware of any other team that has a Loyalty clause to prevent players from speaking badly about the team.

The only other franchise that comes to mind that has an Owner/GM leader is Jerry Jones. Jerry Jones is taking heat for McCarthy's failures and Dallas is looking bad. Nevertheless, Jones wants to win and will do most anything to win.

I have read from Lewis, Collingsworth, and even Boomer that Mike Brown wants to win badly. Marvin Lewis's 7 playoffs appearance may have set this franchise back years in that it allows Mike Brown to rationalize that his father only has 7 playoffs appearances and is considered a legend. Mike Brown rationalizes losing. Accepts Losing as part of the process of developing a competitive team.

Bengals losing 8 games by one score last year and several this year only solidifies his perception that the team is developing. The team is in the process of purging older players and losing is the process. Injury to your star QB only helps preserve the perception that the Bengals can be competitive when all the pieces on in place. W-L is a false dichotomy on the continuum of team progress in Mike Brown's mind.

If I were to summarize Mike Brown's "kryptonite" it would be loyalty to the individual or person (not to the group) and acceptance of losing. Public opinion, perception, and judgment does not matter. Acceptance of losing is a cultural norm; a way of life. For Mike Brown, losing is a disease with complacency. Zac Taylor fits right in does he not?

[fredtoast]

(12-10-2020, 06:15 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: It's so frustrating that the Bengals barometer of success is always how we stack up against the worst teams in the league.

But what amazes me is how hard Bengal fans spin facts to make us the worst team in the league.

Sure, we are a bad team, but why do so many fans seem to be happier about being the WORST than just being bad?

[Bengalitis]

(12-09-2020, 01:11 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I absolutely agree with both of you. What Marvin Lewis did while working for Mike Brown is should damn near be listed as a miracle and Lewis should be sainted by the Vatican.

I understand there are only 32 head coaching positions in the NFL and they're all coveted, but I would have to think the Bengals are at the bottom of everyone's list because of Mike Brown.

Its's a shame Marvin left the NFL. Would have been nice to see him coach other teams to see how he did. Maybe Hue scared him of the possibilities. ha!

[THE PISTONS]

(12-11-2020, 11:08 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: Its's a shame Marvin left the NFL. Would have been nice to see him coach other teams to see how he did. Maybe Hue scared him of the possibilities. ha!

Supposedly he's going to get a lot of attention this offseason as a candidate. Teams see the trainwreck the Bengals are without him and think...Wow with a normal franchise, he could be really good.

It would be funny if he coached the Lions. I kinda feel like that might happen too.

I think Bieniemy and Dorsey go to the Texans.

[fredtoast]

(12-11-2020, 11:13 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Supposedly he's going to get a lot of attention this offseason as a candidate. Teams see the trainwreck the Bengals are without him and think...Wow with a normal franchise, he could be really good.

It would be funny if he coached the Lions. I kinda feel like that might happen too.

I think Bieniemy and Dorsey go to the Texans.

Pittsburgh DC Keith Butler gets a head coaching job and the Steelers replace him with Marvin.

You know what Dick LeBeau did after failing as Bengals head coach? Became DC for the Steelers where they had a top ten defense for 9 straight years including number one in the league 5 times.