Losing Gamblers who lose big

[THE PISTONS]

The Bengals gambled on an inexperienced staff.

In a casino, when people start losing a lot, some know when to walk away. Others, blame losing on luck, circumstances, etc. They feel like the next hand is the winner...no matter how many times they lose. These are the people who generally lose huge sums.

The Bengals are in that spot now. They can choose to woulda coulda shoulda...bad luck and keep Zac...

Or they can Wilks him like the Cardinals did after 1 year and bring in a qualified staff and win.

I gotta say...I think its 50/50 if they fire him. Theres a chance he loses out and is retained. Only 1 team in the NFL has a fanbase where that could be a reality.

[jj22]

They've doubled and tripled down on a bad hand before. If we point to history then it's not looking good.

But they spent 145m in free agency they say! So we have 4 weeks to dream big of a(nother) new day.

[THE PISTONS]

Yessir. That's what made the 90s so bad. Shula won more than Zac and also had the close losses.

[BengalChris]

The Zac hire and the New Dey marketing campaign the team rolled out, remind me so much of another huge flop, one that anyone older than a millennial will know about.

In 1957 Ford introduced a new car making division on what they called "E-Day". This was when they launched the Edsel line of cars. It was one of the biggest flops in auto history. The division sold cars for only 3 years (1958-1960), which is extremely short lived for an entire auto division. In contrast Ford's Lincoln division has been going for 104 years.

Zac is the Edsel of football.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

At first I was worried that when they waited for a coach that couldn't be announced until after the Super Bowl, that he wouldn't be able to hire a good assistant coaching staff. Then I relaxed when I heard that Jack Del Rio came into town for the DC job. Then I was confused when I read that he left town without a contract . . . how can this be? This was an easy layup. Erase the stain of Terrybl Austin and move on, this was a no-brainer. Then several more DCs came in and left. I knew before any other assistants were named, this is going to be a screwed up staff. I had no idea it would be this bad, though. This team looks like the Houston Astros from about 5 or 6 years ago. It's just a place that's barely above the minors and you get to be scouted by other teams while you face against live MLB pitching and hitting, or in this case, NFL defense and NFL offense.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-10-2020, 05:36 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: At first I was worried that when they waited for a coach that couldn't be announced until after the Super Bowl, that he wouldn't be able to hire a good assistant coaching staff. Then I relaxed when I heard that Jack Del Rio came into town for the DC job. Then I was confused when I read that he left town without a contract . . . how can this be? This was an easy layup. Erase the stain of Terrybl Austin and move on, this was a no-brainer. Then several more DCs came in and left. I knew before any other assistants were named, this is going to be a screwed up staff. I had no idea it would be this bad, though. This team looks like the Houston Astros from about 5 or 6 years ago. It's just a place that's barely above the minors and you get to be scouted by other teams while you face against live MLB pitching and hitting, or in this case, NFL defense and NFL offense.

Del Rio never officially interviewed. I believe he took a phone call from ZT and decided it wouldn’t be a good fit. Pretty telling...

[Devils Advocate]

(12-10-2020, 05:48 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Del Rio never officially interviewed. I believe he took a phone call from ZT and decided it wouldn’t be a good fit. Pretty telling...

I’ve thought about this because I brought it up to Fred.

It could be as simple as JDR wanting to stick with a 4-3 base and Zac saying no w’re going hybrid 3 man fronts most of the time. We don’t know why he didn’t come here. Could be telling ... but it could be simple.

Nevertheless, I have a feeling Zac gets fired. At least that’s my hope.

This season couldn’t be more disappointing or disastrous. They have to realize this.

[fredtoast]

(12-10-2020, 05:36 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: At first I was worried that when they waited for a coach that couldn't be announced until after the Super Bowl, that he wouldn't be able to hire a good assistant coaching staff. 

Almost every year the hottest new coaching prospects are in the Super Bowl.  That is what makes them hot prospects.  I hear a lot of talk about how that delay hurt us, but other teams hire coordinators from Super Bowl teams all the time.

[fredtoast]

(12-09-2020, 11:25 PM)jj22 Wrote: They've doubled and tripled down on a bad hand before. If we point to history then it's not looking good.

 

We were all outraged when they re-signed Lewis after the '17 season, but few people remember that they only gave LeBeau 2 offseasons to fix the team before they replaced him.

I think almost any new coach deserves two full seasons unless he is stepping into a winning program who lost a head coach to retirement or something like that.  And there is usually nothing to gain by firing a head coach mid-season.  

But this team is absolute trash except for an amazing QB prospect who fell into Taylors lap because he had the worst record in the league.  It didn't take any brilliant scouting to select Burrow.  Taylor has to be replaced after this season or they will still be selling about 10K tickets for PBS even if it is open to full capacity next year.

[rascalnky]

(12-09-2020, 11:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Bengals gambled on an inexperienced staff.

In a casino, when people start losing a lot, some know when to walk away. Others, blame losing on luck, circumstances, etc. They feel like the next hand is the winner...no matter how many times they lose. These are the people who generally lose huge sums.

The Bengals are in that spot now. They can choose to woulda coulda shoulda...bad luck and keep Zac...

Or they can Wilks him like the Cardinals did after 1 year and bring in a qualified staff and win.

I gotta say...I think its 50/50 if they fire him. Theres a chance he loses out and is retained. Only 1 team in the NFL has a fanbase where that could be a reality.

[Bengalitis]

(12-09-2020, 11:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Bengals gambled on an inexperienced staff.

In a casino, when people start losing a lot, some know when to walk away. Others, blame losing on luck, circumstances, etc. They feel like the next hand is the winner...no matter how many times they lose. These are the people who generally lose huge sums.

The Bengals are in that spot now. They can choose to woulda coulda shoulda...bad luck and keep Zac...

Or they can Wilks him like the Cardinals did after 1 year and bring in a qualified staff and win.

I gotta say...I think its 50/50 if they fire him. Theres a chance he loses out and is retained. Only 1 team in the NFL has a fanbase where that could be a reality.

The cardinals take a #1 QB, then the following year take another #1 QB pick to replace the previous one was the craziest thing done in the NFL,  a gutsy and unconventional move that has them winning again. Very impressive.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-10-2020, 05:48 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Del Rio never officially interviewed. I believe he took a phone call from ZT and decided it wouldn’t be a good fit. Pretty telling...

I know this narrative is a popular one, and it may be 100% true.  Del Rio might have looked at the Bengals from an organizational standpoint and thought he could not be successful here.  

That, or he could have looked at the rosters on defense, and seen how many first round picks Washington had used on their defensive line and the division they compete in compared to the AFC North and made a "business decision".

[THE PISTONS]

(12-10-2020, 04:42 AM)BengalChris Wrote: The Zac hire and the New Dey marketing campaign the team rolled out, remind me so much of another huge flop, one that anyone older than a millennial will know about.

In 1957 Ford introduced a new car making division on what they called "E-Day". This was when they launched the Edsel line of cars. It was one of the biggest flops in auto history. The division sold cars for only 3 years (1958-1960), which is extremely short lived for an entire auto division. In contrast Ford's Lincoln division has been going for 104 years.

Zac is the Edsel of football.

Wasn't Edsel Henry Ford's son?

Zac Taylor is Mike Sherman's son-in-law and coached on some of his staffs early on.

Dave Shula coached on his dad's Miami Staff too early on.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-10-2020, 09:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Almost every year the hottest new coaching prospects are in the Super Bowl.  That is what makes them hot prospects.  I hear a lot of talk about how that delay hurt us, but other teams hire coordinators from Super Bowl teams all the time.

Flores was coaching in the same Super Bowl Taylor was. Didn’t hurt him any.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-10-2020, 10:19 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I know this narrative is a popular one, and it may be 100% true.  Del Rio might have looked at the Bengals from an organizational standpoint and thought he could not be successful here.  

That, or he could have looked at the rosters on defense, and seen how many first round picks Washington had used on their defensive line and the division they compete in compared to the AFC North and made a "business decision".

De Rio was not the only DC to turn us down. Lou was about ZT’s 5th or 6th choice.

[*Nately120*]

(12-10-2020, 04:42 AM)BengalChris Wrote: The Zac hire and the New Dey marketing campaign the team rolled out, remind me so much of another huge flop, one that anyone older than a millennial will know about.

In 1957 Ford introduced a new car making division on what they called "E-Day". This was when they launched the Edsel line of cars. It was one of the biggest flops in auto history. The division sold cars for only 3 years (1958-1960), which is extremely short lived for an entire auto division. In contrast Ford's Lincoln division has been going for 104 years.

Zac is the Edsel of football.

Yep and like the other huge flop, New Coke, the Edsel was another case of accepting the pre-run data you wanted to see and dismissing the red flags. 

ZT is a young offensive minded branch of the McVey tree, stop analyzing beyond this point, I've seen enough!

[THE PISTONS]

(12-10-2020, 05:36 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: At first I was worried that when they waited for a coach that couldn't be announced until after the Super Bowl, that he wouldn't be able to hire a good assistant coaching staff. Then I relaxed when I heard that Jack Del Rio came into town for the DC job. Then I was confused when I read that he left town without a contract . . . how can this be? This was an easy layup. Erase the stain of Terrybl Austin and move on, this was a no-brainer. Then several more DCs came in and left. I knew before any other assistants were named, this is going to be a screwed up staff. I had no idea it would be this bad, though. This team looks like the Houston Astros from about 5 or 6 years ago. It's just a place that's barely above the minors and you get to be scouted by other teams while you face against live MLB pitching and hitting, or in this case, NFL defense and NFL offense.

Honestly, I think the excuse that the HC couldn't be announced until after the SB was way overblown. A lot of new HC's come from good teams...teams who usually are in the playoffs and go far into the playoffs. And it's pretty common for them to line up their staffs with connections.

The fact that Taylor apparently had no connections to quality assistants was a red flag. It's like they knew he was going to fail...

The Del Rio thing...he was apparently highly interested in coming here...until he and Zac talked on the phone and they apparently didn't agree on philosophy or something...But Del Rio seemed too good to be true. Like Bieniemy at the time. But, the Bengals botched it.

Then, in typical Bengals fashion, Del Rio happened to be the Washington DC who blitzed us A LOT and Burrow gets his knee shredded.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-10-2020, 10:28 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: De Rio was not the only DC to turn us down. Lou was about ZT’s 5th or 6th choice.

I know, but I am just saying that the team didn't have Burrow yet, and the defensive talent on the roster was not what Washington had.  Those last few drafts are really paying dividends for them.  It isn't just Chase Young, as they spent three first round picks on their defensive line BEFORE Chase Young:

Jonathon Allen
Daron Payne
Montaze Sweat

With Alex Smith playing well and that defense, there are a lot of NFC teams hoping they don't draw them in the playoffs...if they should win their division.  

[*Nately120*]

(12-10-2020, 10:26 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Wasn't Edsel Henry Ford's son?

Zac Taylor is Mike Sherman's son-in-law and coached on some of his staffs early on.

Dave Shula coached on his dad's Miami Staff too early on.

Two immortal flops, the Ford Edsel and the Apple Lisa. Thanks, dad.  

[THE PISTONS]

(12-10-2020, 10:18 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: The cardinals take a #1 QB, then the following year take another #1 QB pick to replace the previous one was the craziest thing done in the NFL,  a gutsy and unconventional move that has them winning again. Very impressive.

Yeah and in Kingsbury's 1st year, you could see strides made with their offense.

Here, our passing and scoring ratings are similar to last years rankings. And our running game is arguably much worse, despite adding Jonah, XSF, getting rid of Miller, etc. ie They made moves and it got WORSE.