Interesting Snap Count Stats from Dallas Game

[THE PISTONS]

(12-17-2020, 02:42 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: LOL @ the person so obsessed with bashing everything the HC does that he's lost sight of the fact the player was injured. You're two opposite sides of the same coin.

Thanks - A simple I've been right about Zac for 2 years would have been fine though.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-17-2020, 02:58 PM)Sled21 Wrote: The teams that held him to less don't really factor in to the conversation. The assertion was that Elliott was not held in check by the Bengals, and so the Bengals suck. What I pointed out is some very good defenses that had the same result (in fact look at the gashing Pittsburgh took) because that is what Zeke Elliott does. So if the Bengals held him to his average, they must not suck all that bad. And I've posted this many times, but I'll post it again....... WILSON WAS INJURED. I'm not obsessed with defending everything Zac does, I've criticized him a lot. I'm just not obsessed with criticizing everything he does.

Let's see you criticize Zac - What specifically does he do that you don't like?

Elliott definately didn't run wild on us. Nor did we shut him down. We held him to around his average. Compared to our run defense average, which was like 3rd worst in the league...it was a pretty good performance for us.

[Sled21]

(12-17-2020, 03:41 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Let's see you criticize Zac - What specifically does he do that you don't like?

Elliott definately didn't run wild on us. Nor did we shut him down. We held him to around his average. Compared to our run defense average, which was like 3rd worst in the league...it was a pretty good performance for us.

To start with , I've said numerous times I think he should not be calling the offense, giving that duty to Callahan, and focus on being head coach instead. I don't like the fact he keeps putting Jordan in at LG, when I think he needs more time to develop at practice. I didn't like the fact he pulled Gio after the fumble. 

[THE PISTONS]

(12-17-2020, 06:33 PM)Sled21 Wrote: To start with , I've said numerous times I think he should not be calling the offense, giving that duty to Callahan, and focus on being head coach instead. I don't like the fact he keeps putting Jordan in at LG, when I think he needs more time to develop at practice. I didn't like the fact he pulled Gio after the fumble. 

Hater! 

[THE PISTONS]

(12-17-2020, 06:33 PM)Sled21 Wrote: To start with , I've said numerous times I think he should not be calling the offense, giving that duty to Callahan, and focus on being head coach instead. I don't like the fact he keeps putting Jordan in at LG, when I think he needs more time to develop at practice. I didn't like the fact he pulled Gio after the fumble. 

In all seriousness, as he was brought here for his offensive mind...if he cant call plays and keeps starting terrible guys like MJ...which contributed to the Burrow injury - Why keep him?

Honestly, on a team with good coordinators, an average coach can succeed. What I see people say is he needs surrounded with so much talent in coaching and players that he cant fail.

[Sled21]

(12-17-2020, 07:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: In all seriousness, as he was brought here for his offensive mind...if he cant call plays and keeps starting terrible guys like MJ...which contributed to the Burrow injury - Why keep him?

Honestly, on a team with good coordinators, an average coach can succeed. What I see people say is he needs surrounded with so much talent in coaching and players that he cant fail.

I think the plays he calls take too much time to develop. He has an OC, he should use him, at least until he gets a better line. I don't like the fact he keeps putting Jordan in there, but I can't blame him for the rotation of the other linemen because he can't control injuries. Like I said, I criticize him for things I think he needs criticized for. Some of you all criticize him for EVERYTHING, whether it's his fault or not and whether there is a reason for it or not.... I said when they hired him I would give any new coach 3 years. So I will continue to root for him to succeed for 1 more year before I cut bait on him. He has to have 9 wins next year for me to continue to support him.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(12-14-2020, 02:53 PM)Joelist Wrote: If 3-4 Bynes and Pratt inside and Wilson and ADG outside.

The problem I see with that is the same problem that I saw at the beginning of the season: those guys aren't 3-4 LBs. Is anyone really convinced that Wilson or ADG are going to line up over a tackle, beat them 1 on 1, and get sacks? The only player who seems like he could succeed as a 3-4 edge is Lawson. It's as if Lou is trying to copy/paste what successful defenses do with entirely different players. If you want to run the Patriots D, you had better find yourself players who can play LB on early downs and rush the passer on 3rd. You can't expect guys like Wilson/ADG to go out there and be clones of Khalil Mack or something. None of those guys ate tackles for breakfast all day in college because they were off-ball.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-17-2020, 08:18 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I think the plays he calls take too much time to develop. He has an OC, he should use him, at least until he gets a better line. I don't like the fact he keeps putting Jordan in there, but I can't blame him for the rotation of the other linemen because he can't control injuries. Like I said, I criticize him for things I think he needs criticized for. Some of you all criticize him for EVERYTHING, whether it's his fault or not and whether there is a reason for it or not.... I said when they hired him I would give any new coach 3 years. So I will continue to root for him to succeed for 1 more year before I cut bait on him. He has to have 9 wins next year for me to continue to support him.

As a HC he needs to be able to see hes not a good oc.

Honestly, if I thought he did something good, I'd say it. Hes pretty bad at most aspects of the job.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-17-2020, 08:27 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: The problem I see with that is the same problem that I saw at the beginning of the season: those guys aren't 3-4 LBs. Is anyone really convinced that Wilson or ADG are going to line up over a tackle, beat them 1 on 1, and get sacks? The only player who seems like he could succeed as a 3-4 edge is Lawson. It's as if Lou is trying to copy/paste what successful defenses do with entirely different players. If you want to run the Patriots D, you had better find yourself players who can play LB on early downs and rush the passer on 3rd. You can't expect guys like Wilson/ADG to go out there and be clones of Khalil Mack or something. None of those guys ate tackles for breakfast all day in college because they were off-ball.

Which is another point...our personnel aside from Lawson and Hubbard arent suited for a 3-4.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(12-17-2020, 09:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Which is another point...our personnel aside from Lawson and Hubbard arent suited for a 3-4.

Is there any proof that Hubbard has in any way benefitted from playing in 3-4 looks? I distinctly remember some snaps in coverage where the QB would lock onto his zone and target him. I can't really think of a single play where I was wowed by how well he did as a 4 tech DE or as an OLB. He seems like a good, steady 4-3 guy to me. 

[Sled21]

(12-17-2020, 09:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: As a HC he needs to be able to see hes not a good oc.

Honestly, if I thought he did something good, I'd say it. Hes pretty bad at most aspects of the job.

I agree with your first statement. So do you think last year's draft was good? 

[Bengalitis]

Anybody here on the boards can get a 2-10-1 easily if given the chance to coach the Bengals.

[Sled21]

(12-18-2020, 10:18 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: Anybody here on the boards can get a 2-10-1 easily if given the chance to coach the Bengals.

You're delusional.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-18-2020, 09:37 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I agree with your first statement. So do you think last year's draft was good? 

It looks good on paper. Burrow was a no brainer at 1. Higgins looks really good and was a nice 2nd Round pick.

Jury is out on the rest. Wilson and ADG they seem to be cutting their snaps. Adeniji got benched after 10 snaps.

2 quality starters is an above average draft. We'll need more NFL level production from the other guys to consider it good.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-18-2020, 05:23 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It looks good on paper. Burrow was a no brainer at 1. Higgins looks really good and was a nice 2nd Round pick.

Jury is out on the rest. Wilson and ADG they seem to be cutting their snaps. Adeniji got benched after 10 snaps.

2 quality starters is an above average draft. We'll need more NFL level production from the other guys to consider it good.

I'm not sure if that's automatically the case that it's above average if you have the 1st overall pick (and the 1st pick in every round thereafter).

It's kind of assumed you'll get 1 automatically from 1st overall and expectations are a bit higher for the other picks because they're the highest they can be and you get the very first player you want that slipped out of the 1st round. Getting a Burrow and a Higgins from the 21st and 53rd picks is a better draft than a Burrow and a Higgins with the 1st and 33rd.

Also as you mentioned, you really need some NFL level production from other guys in the draft regardless. Otherwise you end up with an OL of Michael Jordan and Alex Redmond performances.

[Bengal Dude]

(12-18-2020, 05:34 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm not sure if that's automatically the case that it's above average if you have the 1st overall pick (and the 1st pick in every round thereafter).

It's kind of assumed you'll get 1 automatically from 1st overall and expectations are a bit higher for the other picks because they're the highest they can be and you get the very first player you want that slipped out of the 1st round. Getting a Burrow and a Higgins from the 21st and 53rd picks is a better draft than a Burrow and a Higgins with the 1st and 33rd.

Also as you mentioned, you really need some NFL level production from other guys in the draft regardless. Otherwise you end up with an OL of Michael Jordan and Alex Redmond performances.

There was an executive, from a few seasons ago, who stated that pretty much every team views the draft as the same. If you get two starters out of a draft it's considered a good draft. Three starters in an amazing draft. Four or more starters in unbelievable draft. 

Now that's a normal view for 31 other teams. Unfortunately for the Bengals, we pretty much need 4 starters out of every draft, since we basically ignore free agency, this most recent offseason is still an anomaly. I remember fans thinking, and the media started mentioning it, that Cody Core could be a surprise rookie starter for us.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-19-2020, 03:10 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: There was an executive, from a few seasons ago, who stated that pretty much every team views the draft as the same. If you get two starters out of a draft it's considered a good draft. Three starters in an amazing draft. Four or more starters in unbelievable draft. 

Now that's a normal view for 31 other teams. Unfortunately for the Bengals, we pretty much need 4 starters out of every draft, since we basically ignore free agency, this most recent offseason is still an anomaly. I remember fans thinking, and the media started mentioning it, that Cody Core could be a surprise rookie starter for us.

And I agree with that in a general sense, I just didn't know if you should consider it slightly different if you have the 1st overall pick since it's not like a mid-1st where you may or may not get someone good. No matter how deep a draft is in 1st round talent (sometimes there's less 1st round talent than 1st round picks) you're guaranteed the best automatically.

I honestly hadn't even thought as far as factoring in neglecting FA into how well you have to do in your drafts, but you're probably right.

Cody Core... another in a long long list of late round/undrafted Bengals WRs who were going to be something great. Lol.. I had actually forgot about him entirely. He, Cobi Hamilton, James Wright, Damion Willis, Josh Malone, Ryan Whalen, Dezmon Briscoe, etc... they all kind of blur together into a vague mass of forgotten misplaced and unwarranted hype.