The Last Kingdom

[Belsnickel]

We talked a little about this BBCA series in another thread, and I thought I'd bring it up here as I am finally catching the premiere. I'm definitely liking the show, and I get why they essentially fast forwarded through Uhtred's early years to get to the real meat of his story, his years as a warrior. My problem is that some of those things that were skimmed past were really big for his character. I know they can't stick tot he books 100%, but some things, to me, shouldn't be left out. His companionship with the smith of Bebbanburg played a huge role in his life, and removing that removes a lot of explanation for how his character acts throughout the series. His identity as a pagan Saxon.

Looking forward to episode two, this Saturday.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I haven't watched yet but seen the commercials for it while watching *Star Trek: The Next Generation. As for the early parts that were left out, maybe the creators of the show will do "Flashbacks" of some sort to explain things as they come up.






*Star Trek: The Next Generation is the best Star Trek series. Better than the original and better than all the others that came after The Next Generation. There is no argument that can be made, it simply is the best.

[Belsnickel]

(10-16-2015, 12:23 AM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: I haven't watched yet but seen the commercials for it while watching *Star Trek: The Next Generation. As for the early parts that were left out, maybe the creators of the show will do "Flashbacks" of some sort to explain things as they come up.


*Star Trek: The Next Generation is the best Star Trek series. Better than the original and better than all the others that came after The Next Generation. There is no argument that can be made, it simply is the best.

My wife suggested that as well, but one big part of the identity of the protagonist is formed in his relationship with the smith from his home who joins him in his captivity with the Danes. The point at which this smith dies already occurred in the first episode with not even a mention of the character. This smith is not only the root of his identity as a Saxon pagan, but he made Serpent Breath, the sword that he carries throughout the series and is as much a part of his being as his arm.

[*michaelsean*]

OK Bebbanburg is nothing like I pictured it. I pictured a large stone fortress on a cliff hanging over a crashing ocean. This one is wooden and sits on a gentle slope. And the sun never shines.

Not exactly, but akin to this:

[Belsnickel]

(10-16-2015, 11:47 AM)michaelsean Wrote: OK Bebbanburg is nothing like I pictured it. I pictured a large stone fortress on a cliff hanging over a crashing ocean. This one is wooden and sits on a gentle slope. And the sun never shines.

Not exactly, but akin to this:

I get what you're saying. I knew it would be wooden, stone fortresses weren't a thing for a couple hundred more years. William was the one that really brought the whole castle building craze to England. Stone fortresses were not all that common at the time of Alfred. What stone structures did exist were often remnants of Roman engineering.

That being said, the placement is wrong from what I was thinking. After all, we are talking about this site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamburgh_Castle

Just he wooden fort that existed prior to this Norman castle.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-16-2015, 12:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I get what you're saying. I knew it would be wooden, stone fortresses weren't a thing for a couple hundred more years. William was the one that really brought the whole castle building craze to England. Stone fortresses were not all that common at the time of Alfred. What stone structures did exist were often remnants of Roman engineering.

That being said, the placement is wrong from what I was thinking. After all, we are talking about this site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamburgh_Castle

Just he wooden fort that existed prior to this Norman castle.

Well that doesn't look unapproachable either.  One main fairly steep road, and then maybe a very narrow steep path to the ocean is how I thought of it. 

And my mind always had it on the Northwest coast as well.  Don't know why.  I knew stone wasn't very prevalent, I guess I just pictured an old Roman fort or something.  

[Belsnickel]

(10-16-2015, 01:24 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well that doesn't look unapproachable either.  One main fairly steep road, and then maybe a very narrow steep path to the ocean is how I thought of it. 

And my mind always had it on the Northwest coast as well.  Don't know why.  I knew stone wasn't very prevalent, I guess I just pictured an old Roman fort or something.  

Well, you figure we're looking at 1100 years of erosion, destruction, and rebuilding on that site. So what may have been an unapproachable fortress (and it may well not have been, it could have just been Cornwell's literary license at work) would have been subject to many changes in landscape over the centuries. But this area was never a part of Roman Britain.

And northwest? Come on, now.

Edit: See, I lack imagination or creativity, so this is why I like historical fiction. I can look these things up and they help me with the visualization.

[*michaelsean*]

I thought Northumbria went all the way to the Irish Sea. When I read historical novels in the Medieval Days, I often wonder just how wrong the picture in my head is. I still can't figure out how Vikings fit all of their gear, food, ale, and all the plunder on a ship. Even if they do pull up planks. Now Ragnar's hall in the show was a pretty good likeness of what I have in my mind. I can't ever make myself think of those ones that are like dug into the ground with sod roofs. They look like Hobbit houses.

And the pic on this site makes the castle look a little more formidable. The little one in the left column especially.

http://www.englandsnortheast.co.uk/KingdomofNorthumbria.html

[Belsnickel]

(10-16-2015, 01:51 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I thought Northumbria went all the way to the Irish Sea. When I read historical novels in the Medieval Days, I often wonder just how wrong the picture in my head is. I still can't figure out how Vikings fit all of their gear, food, ale, and all the plunder on a ship. Even if they do pull up planks. Now Ragnar's hall in the show was a pretty good likeness of what I have in my mind. I can't ever make myself think of those ones that are like dug into the ground with sod roofs. They look like Hobbit houses.

And the pic on this site makes the castle look a little more formidable. The little one in the left column especially.

http://www.englandsnortheast.co.uk/KingdomofNorthumbria.html

At its largest, Northumbria stretched to the Irish Sea in the southern part, but up in Bernicia, where Bamburgh is, it is only the eastern half of the landmass. Cumbria took up the other side (though part of it was absorbed into Northumbria by the time frame of the books) and what little was left was kind of wild. Like a mini Wales in a sense.

And yeah, that picture does show more of why it was so formidable. The slope towards the beach that looks gradual must be the only approachable side, which is why it would be so hard to assault because that was the only way to it.

[*michaelsean*]

OK end of the season. I liked seeing the time period in more than my mind. I did not like Uhtred very much. He wasn't big enough and he had an annoying voice. Alfred fit what I pictured in my mind quite well. I keep telling myself I'm going to read a biography on him because he seems like a fascinating person. Probably among the physically weakest of the English kings, he is the only one known as the "The Great". Brida was annoying. Don't remember her in any shield walls but it's been a while since I've read the earlier books.

All in all I thought they did a really good job.

[Belsnickel]

(11-30-2015, 02:30 PM)michaelsean Wrote: OK end of the season. I liked seeing the time period in more than my mind. I did not like Uhtred very much. He wasn't big enough and he had an annoying voice. Alfred fit what I pictured in my mind quite well. I keep telling myself I'm going to read a biography on him because he seems like a fascinating person. Probably among the physically weakest of the English kings, he is the only one known as the "The Great". Brida was annoying. Don't remember her in any shield walls but it's been a while since I've read the earlier books.

All in all I thought they did a really good job.

So the season encompassed the first two books and in so doing crunched a lot of stuff together and shortened some time frames. All in all, I think it was good, but yeah, Uhtred was like the emo version of the character. Not to be too blunt about it, but he seemed like a whiny little ***** in comparison to the Uhtred of the books. And it isn't just personality, it's looks as well.

Some of the character combinations that occurred I was not happy with. I already mentioned the blacksmith before, but using his comrade Leofric in the fight instead of Steapa was a bad move as well. I mean, he plays no small role in later stories. There were probably others that cropped up, but that was the most noticeable to me. It's inevitable that you have to pare down the number of characters for television, but it seems like they did not make the wisest decisions in that regard.

As for Alfred (not the only "the Great", BTW, can't forget Cnut), I don't know if he was physically the weakest. I know he was afflicted by an illness. Some suggest he suffered from Crohn's disease. Even if he was physically weak he still did some tremendous things and was a great military mind.

And yes, Brida was annoying as all hell.

[*michaelsean*]

(11-30-2015, 05:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So the season encompassed the first two books and in so doing crunched a lot of stuff together and shortened some time frames. All in all, I think it was good, but yeah, Uhtred was like the emo version of the character. Not to be too blunt about it, but he seemed like a whiny little ***** in comparison to the Uhtred of the books. And it isn't just personality, it's looks as well.

Some of the character combinations that occurred I was not happy with. I already mentioned the blacksmith before, but using his comrade Leofric in the fight instead of Steapa was a bad move as well. I mean, he plays no small role in later stories. There were probably others that cropped up, but that was the most noticeable to me. It's inevitable that you have to pare down the number of characters for television, but it seems like they did not make the wisest decisions in that regard.

As for Alfred (not the only "the Great", BTW, can't forget Cnut), I don't know if he was physically the weakest. I know he was afflicted by an illness. Some suggest he suffered from Crohn's disease. Even if he was physically weak he still did some tremendous things and was a great military mind.

And yes, Brida was annoying as all hell.

Yeah it's been so long since I read the books that the series covered, that I really don't remember how closely it meshed with the books.  It does seem to me that Uhtred actually met Ubba in battle and killed him, not in that sort of one on one duel they showed. 

I wasn't trying to criticize Alfred if that's how it read.  I just think it's impressive that he doesn't seem to have been a great warrior personally, but was a genius as a ruler.  

[Belsnickel]

(11-30-2015, 06:07 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah it's been so long since I read the books that the series covered, that I really don't remember how closely it meshed with the books.  It does seem to me that Uhtred actually met Ubba in battle and killed him, not in that sort of one on one duel they showed. 

It was more in the midst of battle. I mean, the battle had started and Uhtred and Ubba kind of dueled it out in the middle of it all. In fact, the reason Uhtred won, IIRC, was because of Ubba slipping on the entrails of some other fallen warrior on the field.

(11-30-2015, 06:07 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I wasn't trying to criticize Alfred if that's how it read.  I just think it's impressive that he doesn't seem to have been a great warrior personally, but was a genius as a ruler.  

I get what you're saying now. Yeah, he had a brilliant mind and was a great tactician, but he definitely didn't have the prowess in battle that your typical warriors had.