Just got my first smoker

[*michaelsean*]

(02-08-2021, 01:05 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: I have, yes.  I'll rinse the bird off first then make my own brine.  Here's the thing: the "brine" they put in those bags is just a saline solution, so it's not a full flavor brine like you or I would use.  It's also not a lot in the bag.  When I make a brine and I've got orange peels and spices and sugar and the bird is completely submerged in it, I think it's different than just being in a simple saline solution inside the bag.  I also figure that usually with a brine you're looking at say an hour per pound.  If what was in the bag was truly a brine, it would have been over-brined before you ever bought it.  

So I just rinse that crap off (if it had any - I prefer to just get the ones without) and then do my own brine, either wet in a big pot, or a dry brine (which I'm really starting to appreciate more for the lack of mess, but it's more limited since it's not a cold "soup" I'm putting the bird in). 

It said injected. I imagine the salt balances out, but I’m not sure of that hence my hesitation.

[MileHighGrowler]

(02-08-2021, 01:48 PM)michaelsean Wrote: It said injected. I imagine the salt balances out, but I’m not sure of that hence my hesitation.

Yeah, it's injected, but I guess my point is that if it acted the same way as a regular brine, it would get over-salted and the meat would start to break down.  Since that doesn't happen, using a brine has never worried me even if the turkey says it's been injected with a saline solution.  

[*michaelsean*]

(02-08-2021, 02:24 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: Yeah, it's injected, but I guess my point is that if it acted the same way as a regular brine, it would get over-salted and the meat would start to break down.  Since that doesn't happen, using a brine has never worried me even if the turkey says it's been injected with a saline solution.  

Good enough for me.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-08-2021, 02:24 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: Yeah, it's injected, but I guess my point is that if it acted the same way as a regular brine, it would get over-salted and the meat would start to break down.  Since that doesn't happen, using a brine has never worried me even if the turkey says it's been injected with a saline solution.  

A couple questions if I’m not bothering you. (Nothing to do with the post I quoted)

Pit Boss now has charcoal pellets. What would be your opinion on mixing some in with my regular pellets? Is that a desired flavor?

That leads to question #2. What role does charcoal play for the real stick burner smokers? It is used just to start the fire? Do you rely on it to provide some or a lot of the cooking heat? Do you want it contributing much in the way of smoke?

[MileHighGrowler]

(02-18-2021, 09:24 PM)michaelsean Wrote: A couple questions if I’m not bothering you. (Nothing to do with the post I quoted)

Pit Boss now has charcoal pellets. What would be your opinion on mixing some in with my regular pellets?  Is that a desired flavor?

That leads to question #2. What role does charcoal play for the real stick burner smokers?  It is used just to start the fire?  Do you rely on it to provide some or a lot of the cooking heat?  Do you want it contributing much in the way of smoke?

Not bothering at all!  Ask away :) 

Charcoal pellets don't really make sense to me.  Charcoal is just wood that's treated at high heat to remove moisture.  As a result, it burns easily and at high temperatures.  What most people associate as a "charcoal" flavor is largely a result of how the food reacts to the heat, because charcoal doesn't (or shouldn't, at least!) impart much smoke.  Even when smoking, the best smoke flavor doesn't come from a billowing white cloud of smoke inside the smoker, but from the compounds released from the wood (so really, the flavor from "smoking" doesn't even really come from smoke at all).  This is the reason a lot of people don't like using pellets and prefer to stick burn; they pellets sometimes have filler and just don't burn the same as a log, producing all of the same reactions for the deepest flavors.  

So I guess to answer question number one, I don't really know what flavor those pellets are supposed to impart, so I don't really see a lot of appeal.  Just my opinion, though.  

For number 2, it depends on the size of the firebox and smoker.  If you're running on a small stick burner, you probably can't put full splits in the fire box (they likely won't fit, and if they do, the temp would get too hot).  So for the smaller smokers, it's more common to use a bed of charcoal and wood chunks instead of splits/logs.  My smoker is mid-sized so I usually halve a typical split on harder woods that burn hotter and use the normal splits for softer woods that burn a little cooler.  I just use charcoal to get an initial bed to light the fire and that's it.  My friends who are using big offsets/counterflows will often light the wood directly with a propane torch.  They're basically just making their coal bed from the smoke wood.  They're also putting in 4-6 splits at a time, so they'd need a high enough volume of charcoal to get it started that it ceases to be practical.  

Because charcoal is cheaper than wood (unless you've got your own supply of seasoned wood on your property), if I'm wrapping something in foil and keeping it on the smoker, I'll switch to charcoal to keep the heat but it's not contributing to flavor.  I wouldn't do that on a big smoker, but on mine it works just fine and saves my wood for when the meat is actually exposed.

[*michaelsean*]

(02-19-2021, 12:16 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: Not bothering at all!  Ask away :) 

Charcoal pellets don't really make sense to me.  Charcoal is just wood that's treated at high heat to remove moisture.  As a result, it burns easily and at high temperatures.  What most people associate as a "charcoal" flavor is largely a result of how the food reacts to the heat, because charcoal doesn't (or shouldn't, at least!) impart much smoke.  Even when smoking, the best smoke flavor doesn't come from a billowing white cloud of smoke inside the smoker, but from the compounds released from the wood (so really, the flavor from "smoking" doesn't even really come from smoke at all).  This is the reason a lot of people don't like using pellets and prefer to stick burn; they pellets sometimes have filler and just don't burn the same as a log, producing all of the same reactions for the deepest flavors.  

So I guess to answer question number one, I don't really know what flavor those pellets are supposed to impart, so I don't really see a lot of appeal.  Just my opinion, though.  

For number 2, it depends on the size of the firebox and smoker.  If you're running on a small stick burner, you probably can't put full splits in the fire box (they likely won't fit, and if they do, the temp would get too hot).  So for the smaller smokers, it's more common to use a bed of charcoal and wood chunks instead of splits/logs.  My smoker is mid-sized so I usually halve a typical split on harder woods that burn hotter and use the normal splits for softer woods that burn a little cooler.  I just use charcoal to get an initial bed to light the fire and that's it.  My friends who are using big offsets/counterflows will often light the wood directly with a propane torch.  They're basically just making their coal bed from the smoke wood.  They're also putting in 4-6 splits at a time, so they'd need a high enough volume of charcoal to get it started that it ceases to be practical.  

Because charcoal is cheaper than wood (unless you've got your own supply of seasoned wood on your property), if I'm wrapping something in foil and keeping it on the smoker, I'll switch to charcoal to keep the heat but it's not contributing to flavor.  I wouldn't do that on a big smoker, but on mine it works just fine and saves my wood for when the meat is actually exposed.

Alright so no need to bother with the charcoal pellets.  As far as filler, it seems the major brands use all hardwood, their "filler" being oak or alder.  Seems like it's about 30% advertised wood, and 70% filler hardwood.  Lumberjack offers a 100% but it's expensive.  I have I feeling I'd have a hard time differentiating much between say 100% apple or an apple blend anyway.  

So for the offset smokers it seems like charcoal is more a tool. There's a good chance I will never get a stick burner, but it doesn't hurt to at least start understanding how it's done.

[MileHighGrowler]

(02-19-2021, 12:51 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Alright so no need to bother with the charcoal pellets.  As far as filler, it seems the major brands use all hardwood, their "filler" being oak or alder.  Seems like it's about 30% advertised wood, and 70% filler hardwood.  Lumberjack offers a 100% but it's expensive.  I have I feeling I'd have a hard time differentiating much between say 100% apple or an apple blend anyway.  

So for the offset smokers it seems like charcoal is more a tool. There's a good chance I will never get a stick burner, but it doesn't hurt to at least start understanding how it's done.

And let me be clear, even though I prefer to stick burn (because I just enjoy it): you can make damn good smoked food on a pellet smoker.  It's easier to control, easier to manage and the food tastes great.  If you did a side-by-side comparison of a brisket from a pellet smoker and an offset, the offset would have some deeper smoke flavors, but it's not like the pellet would be bad at all.  I know some guys are super hardcore against pellet smokers and I'm just not that much of a purist.  I just don't want to fork over the cash for a pellet and I like managing a real fire because my inner caveman needs to be released every now and then is all.  So I just wanted to throw that out there, because there's a lot of hate for pellets in the smoking community.  

Charcoal is definitely mostly a tool (or a crutch, depending on size of smoker) for an offset.  

If you want to get in-depth on the topic, I recommend Mad Scientist BBQ on YouTube.  He talks a lot about how flavor comes from smoking, how to manage a fire, different types of smokers, etc.  As his name suggests, he dives into the chemistry of it all at times, but he's easy to understand and I really appreciate his approach of taking science into account to understand what makes BBQ work.  His most recent video was about using beef tallow on a brisket while wrapped.  My beef tallow should be arriving next week so I can try it out; the results were pretty convincing! 

[*michaelsean*]

(02-19-2021, 01:21 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: And let me be clear, even though I prefer to stick burn (because I just enjoy it): you can make damn good smoked food on a pellet smoker.  It's easier to control, easier to manage and the food tastes great.  If you did a side-by-side comparison of a brisket from a pellet smoker and an offset, the offset would have some deeper smoke flavors, but it's not like the pellet would be bad at all.  I know some guys are super hardcore against pellet smokers and I'm just not that much of a purist.  I just don't want to fork over the cash for a pellet and I like managing a real fire because my inner caveman needs to be released every now and then is all.  So I just wanted to throw that out there, because there's a lot of hate for pellets in the smoking community.  

Charcoal is definitely mostly a tool (or a crutch, depending on size of smoker) for an offset.  

If you want to get in-depth on the topic, I recommend Mad Scientist BBQ on YouTube.  He talks a lot about how flavor comes from smoking, how to manage a fire, different types of smokers, etc.  As his name suggests, he dives into the chemistry of it all at times, but he's easy to understand and I really appreciate his approach of taking science into account to understand what makes BBQ work.  His most recent video was about using beef tallow on a brisket while wrapped.  My beef tallow should be arriving next week so I can try it out; the results were pretty convincing! 

Yes the only reason I would consider switching would be for the experience.  I like being out there with the smoker, but now I just pretend it's necessary. I think I'm going to try to make KC burnt ends when it warms up a little here. If i understand correctly, you take then entire fat cap off the point if you want to make those.

I've watched some of his videos.  Dude does like to talk.  I just saw one where he did a dry aged brisket.  I hope he's making some money because he spends an insane amount on his meat.  I'm looking for $1.99 brisket sales and he (and others) are buying wagyu from Snake River.  

[MileHighGrowler]

(02-19-2021, 01:29 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Yes the only reason I would consider switching would be for the experience.  I like being out there with the smoker, but now I just pretend it's necessary.  I think I'm going to try to make KC burnt ends when it warms up a little here.  If i understand correctly, you take then entire fat cap off the point if you want to make those.

I've watched some of his videos.  Dude does like to talk.  I just saw one where he did a dry aged brisket.  I hope he's making some money because he spends an insane amount on his meat.  I'm looking for $1.99 brisket sales and he (and others) are buying wagyu from Snake River.  

He definitely puts some cash into his projects.  He was a teacher at some point in California but I believe he quit his job and is doing the YT thing full time.  Not sure where all the money comes from because he had quite the property in inland SoCal before he moved to Kentucky and definitely didn't seem to be scrimping on the kinds of meat he was getting.  

The problem I have is that I love the point of the brisket and start eating it as soon as it's ready and never leave enough to put back on to make burnt ends.  One of these days I think I'll just get a separate point or toss a second brisket on just so I can do them.  I do love some burnt ends and I can't get good ones anywhere around here.  

[*michaelsean*]

(02-19-2021, 02:01 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: He definitely puts some cash into his projects.  He was a teacher at some point in California but I believe he quit his job and is doing the YT thing full time.  Not sure where all the money comes from because he had quite the property in inland SoCal before he moved to Kentucky and definitely didn't seem to be scrimping on the kinds of meat he was getting.  

The problem I have is that I love the point of the brisket and start eating it as soon as it's ready and never leave enough to put back on to make burnt ends.  One of these days I think I'll just get a separate point or toss a second brisket on just so I can do them.  I do love some burnt ends and I can't get good ones anywhere around here.  

Just caught one of his videos which I believe is new. He’s suggesting one of Franklin’s secrets is putting tallow on the butcher paper when he wraps, and then when it comes off, wrapping it again for the rest with more tallow on the paper.

[MileHighGrowler]

(02-23-2021, 03:41 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Just caught one of his videos which I believe is new. He’s suggesting one of Franklin’s secrets is putting tallow on the butcher paper when he wraps, and then when it comes off, wrapping it again for the rest with more tallow on the paper.

Yep!  Saw that vid when it came out a couple of weeks ago and plan to try the method in a few weeks when I have time to smoke another brisket.  My tallow just arrived this past weekend and I'm ready to give it a shot!  I've eaten at Franklin's and chatted with the guys doing the smoking.  Fantastic BBQ, super friendly people.  He's pretty well regarded as being the master of the brisket and having some of the most consistent briskets anywhere.  If tallow is his secret, my brisket game is going to go up a few points pretty quick! 

[*michaelsean*]

(02-23-2021, 05:32 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: Yep!  Saw that vid when it came out a couple of weeks ago and plan to try the method in a few weeks when I have time to smoke another brisket.  My tallow just arrived this past weekend and I'm ready to give it a shot!  I've eaten at Franklin's and chatted with the guys doing the smoking.  Fantastic BBQ, super friendly people.  He's pretty well regarded as being the master of the brisket and having some of the most consistent briskets anywhere.  If tallow is his secret, my brisket game is going to go up a few points pretty quick! 

I’m going to do some more briskets (only done two) and if/when I ever get to the point where I feel comfortable and confident I’m going to try something like that. Right now I don’t think I want a lot of variable.

Can you make your own tallow out of trimmings or is it more specialized?

[*michaelsean*]

Btw... I’m pretty sure I can do my own brisket video now. Let me know if I miss any of the talking points.

This is a whole brisket also known as a packer.
You will see a brisket is made up of two separate muscles. The flat and the point. The flat is the leaner part and the point is the fatter part. That’s where your burnt ends come from.

Now when trimming a brisket I like to use a boning knife. (Hmmm...who else uses a boning knife?)

You see this kind of grayish meat? That’s oxidized meat. Nothing wrong with it but I’m going to cut it off.

You want to get rid of this hard fat here. That’s never going to render.

I like to trim the fat cap to about 1/4 inch.

The never ending debate. Fat cap up or fat cap down. I really have no idea so I’m going to flip a coin and come up with some reason why I chose that side.

My smoker tends to burn hotter on the left side so I’m going to cook it with the point on that side because it can take in more heat.

It’s been about three hours and it has that mahogany color I would expect it to have.

You can see when I put my finger on it, no rub comes off so the bark is setting up nicely.

We’re in the stall.

Now I’m going to wrap it in butcher paper, and I’m going to act like wrapping a piece of meat in paper is a feat in engineering.

Ok the temperature is reading 203 but I’m going to probe test it.

It’s probing like butter. It’s ready to come off. But we can’t slice into it yet. First we have to wrap it in a parka and let it rest. I like to rest mine for a week and a half but two hours minimum.

Oh look at that bark. That’s the perfect bark. Let’s slice this baby up. Remember you want to cut against the grain.

Now the grain runs differently in the point so turn it 90 degrees but first let me squeeze all the juice out of it so you can see how juicy it is.

How’d I do?

[MileHighGrowler]

(02-23-2021, 05:46 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I’m going to do some more briskets (only done two) and if/when I ever get to the point where I feel comfortable and confident I’m going to try something like that. Right now I don’t think I want a lot of variable.

Can you make your own tallow out of trimmings or is it more specialized?

I'll let you know how it turns out when I try it!  I haven't had an issue with dry briskets before so without an A/B comparison it might be hard to tell.  But I'll do my best! 

You can make your own by rendering down beef fat.  You just need to clean any meat off of it, then you can toss it in the slow cooker until it renders.  Or any other method of heating it.  I've considered it before but just never have a ton of fat unless I'm trimming a brisket.  And making tallow is never top of my mind on those days... 

Btw, your breakdown of just about every brisket video is pretty spot-on.  Still, I must have watched about 12 of them before I did my first one.  Everyone tells you how hard they are and how you don't want to mess it up because it's so expensive (even though per pound it's really not unless you're getting a wagyu cut or something).  But they were all the same.  Almost exactly.  

[*michaelsean*]

(02-23-2021, 07:00 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: I'll let you know how it turns out when I try it!  I haven't had an issue with dry briskets before so without an A/B comparison it might be hard to tell.  But I'll do my best! 

You can make your own by rendering down beef fat.  You just need to clean any meat off of it, then you can toss it in the slow cooker until it renders.  Or any other method of heating it.  I've considered it before but just never have a ton of fat unless I'm trimming a brisket.  And making tallow is never top of my mind on those days... 

Btw, your breakdown of just about every brisket video is pretty spot-on.  Still, I must have watched about 12 of them before I did my first one.  Everyone tells you how hard they are and how you don't want to mess it up because it's so expensive (even though per pound it's really not unless you're getting a wagyu cut or something).  But they were all the same.  Almost exactly.  

I was bored at work

I think I’ve watched maybe 50. Just to burn some things in my brain, and I kind of like them.

I did forget “I like to slice about the width of a #2 pencil”

That’s the whole thing I like about smoking. It’s actually very inexpensive meat that you are turning into something great.

[MileHighGrowler]

(02-23-2021, 07:12 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I was bored at work

I think I’ve watched maybe 50. Just to burn some things in my brain, and I kind of like them.

I did forget “I like to slice about the width of a #2 pencil”

That’s the whole thing I like about smoking. It’s actually very inexpensive meat that you are turning into something great.

Exactly.  Now with BBQ becoming this chic thing for so many people, demand has increased and the prices have gone up (someone talked about tri-tip earlier on also along these lines) for meat, but it's still pretty affordable when you think about it.  And especially if you consider how expensive it is to buy a whole smoked brisket from a restaurant, after meet and wood, you're still saving a ton of money, just investing a lot of time.  And while I'm not sitting with a lot of excess time with a full time job, kids and other hobbies, I don't mind putting the time into something great like a brisket every couple of months. 

[WeezyBengal]

(02-23-2021, 07:34 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: Exactly.  Now with BBQ becoming this chic thing for so many people, demand has increased and the prices have gone up (someone talked about tri-tip earlier on also along these lines) for meat, but it's still pretty affordable when you think about it.  And especially if you consider how expensive it is to buy a whole smoked brisket from a restaurant, after meet and wood, you're still saving a ton of money, just investing a lot of time.  And while I'm not sitting with a lot of excess time with a full time job, kids and other hobbies, I don't mind putting the time into something great like a brisket every couple of months. 

I bought an 8 lb pork butt from Kroger for $8. I enjoyed it more than the $100 steak I had at Jeff Rubys the night before. 


I mean that is just insanely cheap. I ate off of it all week. Figure this: 


You have a 1/4 lb pulled pork sandwich for lunch every day for week. Thats 32 servings. 32 servings/$8 = .25 cents 


So your serving size of pork for your lunch (among other things) is only .25 cents. And you get 32 servings of that! 


.25 cents for a really good meal of food is literally unbeatable. 

[*michaelsean*]

(02-24-2021, 12:05 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I bought an 8 lb pork butt from Kroger for $8. I enjoyed it more than the $100 steak I had at Jeff Rubys the night before. 


I mean that is just insanely cheap. I ate off of it all week. Figure this: 


You have a 1/4 lb pulled pork sandwich for lunch every day for week. Thats 32 servings. 32 servings/$8 = .25 cents 


So your serving size of pork for your lunch (among other things) is only .25 cents. And you get 32 servings of that! 


.25 cents for a really good meal of food is literally unbeatable. 

Yeah the $.99 pork butt is a joke. I bought a couple last time. Right now it’s at $1.77 which is still cheap as hell.

Back Ribs are the ripoff. At $4.99 that’s like $10.00 a lb for meat. I did pick up six slabs when the were buy one get one.

[jfkbengals]

(02-24-2021, 12:05 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I bought an 8 lb pork butt from Kroger for $8. I enjoyed it more than the $100 steak I had at Jeff Rubys the night before. 


I mean that is just insanely cheap. I ate off of it all week. Figure this: 


You have a 1/4 lb pulled pork sandwich for lunch every day for week. Thats 32 servings. 32 servings/$8 = .25 cents 


So your serving size of pork for your lunch (among other things) is only .25 cents. And you get 32 servings of that! 


.25 cents for a really good meal of food is literally unbeatable. 

There is a problem in your math.  The 8 pound butt won't be 8 pounds after cooking...

[WeezyBengal]

(02-24-2021, 04:20 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah the $.99 pork butt is a joke. I bought a couple last time. Right now it’s at $1.77 which is still cheap as hell.

Back Ribs are the ripoff.  At $4.99 that’s like $10.00 a lb for meat. I did pick up six slabs when the were buy one get one.

I only buy the ribs when they are BOGO at Kroger. They run these sales every once in awhile.