Draft Madness

[*ochocincos*]

(12-28-2020, 04:40 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: If the Bengals went TE or WR in round 1, are there quality OL in round 2?

Yes, plenty. Rd 3 too.
But the Bengals cannot (or should not) wait until Day 3 of the draft to bring in defensive players, so the likelihood of getting a pass catcher and two OL in Rds 1-3 is probably lower than some would like.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 04:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think we're arguing just to argue tbh.
I already told you I consider Pitts to be a fantastic prospect, and I already explained that I didn't include him in my "blue chip" list because TEs are so rarely taken in Top 10. I also said I'd take him if picking outside Top 5. I remember OJ Howard being in a similar discussion as a Top 10 pick, but he ultimately fell all the way to 19th overall. Eifert was considered by many to be picked around 10-15 but fell to 21st overall. The reason is because while the talent is there, teams picking earlier likely have bigger needs that they go for a more premium position than TE.

Not really trying to argue, just pointing out why I think he’s worth taking that high compared to most TE’s.

I saw where’s he’s also the highest rated pass catcher in the PFF era (since 2014). So it’s really not much different than taking a WR.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 04:40 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: If the Bengals went TE or WR in round 1, are there quality OL in round 2?

Of course. There’s also a bunch of really good guards hitting FA.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-28-2020, 04:50 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not really trying to argue, just pointing out why I think he’s worth taking that high compared to most TE’s.

I saw where’s he’s also the highest rated pass catcher in the PFF era (since 2014). So it’s really not much different than taking a WR.

But a TE being taken that high needs to have an offensive mind that plans to use him like a WR.
When looking at Hockenson, you can see why he was taken that high. He is a top option in that offense.
If Pitts is taken, we'd want/expect him to become a Top 3 option in the passing game. If he's used like Sample is (5th option), fans will be irate.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 04:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: But a TE being taken that high needs to have an offensive mind that plans to use him like a WR.
When looking at Hockenson, you can see why he was taken that high. He is a top option in that offense.
If Pitts is taken, we'd want/expect him to become a Top 3 option in the passing game. If he's used like Sample is (5th option), fans will be irate.

Well, there we keep coming back to the limitations of the coaching staff. We shouldn’t take Sewell because he’s raw, and Jim Tuner sucks. We shouldn’t take Pitts because Taylor doesn’t utilize TE’s enough...

Maybe we should just get better coaches.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-28-2020, 04:55 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well, there we keep coming back to the limitations of the coaching staff. We shouldn’t take Sewell because he’s raw, and Jim Tuner sucks. We shouldn’t take Pitts because Taylor doesn’t utilize TE’s enough...

Maybe we should just get better coaches.

That's always a factor when taking prospects. Look at Josh Allen in BUF for example. If he didn't have a good coaching staff that could develop him well, he'd have probably been a huge flop, as he needed a lot of work. You can't just take any player and expect them to turn into greatness. You have to have the staff to turn the projects into good players.

But that's why people are so mad about losing draft position, as we don't trust this staff to develop anyone.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-28-2020, 04:55 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well, there we keep coming back to the limitations of the coaching staff. We shouldn’t take Sewell because he’s raw, and Jim Tuner sucks. We shouldn’t take Pitts because Taylor doesn’t utilize TE’s enough...

Maybe we should just get better coaches.

What are you talking about? Taylor is battling it out with Gase for December coach of the month!

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 05:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What are you talking about? Taylor is battling it out with Gase for December coach of the month!

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-28-2020, 03:14 PM)Wyche Wrote: Damn... finished at 377. He and Gallup are meshing well down there.

Yeah, he certainly has a good amount of offensive weapons there. Shame the OL had fallen apart.

I actually think Dalton has played himself into a good (not great) FA contract this offseason. Started off real rough in his first two starts, but in his last 6 he has... 67.2% completion, 13 TD/4 INT, 101.9 QB Rating and the Cowboys are 4-2.

If the Cowboys win the division, it is going to be one chaotic offseason in Dallas. Lol

[Murdock2420]

(12-28-2020, 04:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Of course. There’s also a bunch of really good guards hitting FA.

Pretty good Clemson Tackle with a 2nd round grade.... not that I'm biased or anything....

[Essex Johnson]

(12-28-2020, 04:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's always a factor when taking prospects. Look at Josh Allen in BUF for example. If he didn't have a good coaching staff that could develop him well, he'd have probably been a huge flop, as he needed a lot of work. You can't just take any player and expect them to turn into greatness. You have to have the staff to turn the projects into good players.

But that's why people are so mad about losing draft position, as we don't trust this staff to develop anyone.

You really cant support that moving from 3 to 5 means you just have to develop a player to be good but if u pick 1 2 3 player you dont have to develop them..

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(12-28-2020, 07:41 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yeah, he certainly has a good amount of offensive weapons there. Shame the OL had fallen apart.

I actually think Dalton has played himself into a good (not great) FA contract this offseason. Started off real rough in his first two starts, but in his last 6 he has... 67.2% completion, 13 TD/4 INT, 101.9 QB Rating and the Cowboys are 4-2.

If the Cowboys win the division, it is going to be one chaotic offseason in Dallas. Lol

His TD to CeeDee Lamb was probably the best pass I've ever seen him throw.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(12-27-2020, 09:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I was ready to make fun of this take, but decided to look into it. It's closer than I would have thought. It doesn't take into account Pro Bowl market difference, or All-Pros, but....

# of Pro Bowl Seasons Since 2000:

1st Overall: 41
2nd Overall: 41
3rd Overall: 52
12th Overall: 35

Does anyone have a breakdown of this by position as well, so taking out the QBs. I'd have thought 1st overall would be predominantly QBs. The gap between 2nd and 3rd is a bit more surprising.

(12-28-2020, 12:11 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Really hate to say it because I think winning is extremely important for this team, but they have to lose next week. They could drop to 12 with a win. As of now they’re 5th I do believe

We're currently 5th and can finish anywhere between 3rd and 10th.

But several of the teams we'd leapfrog if we won v Baltimore have much more winnable games, including two 5-10 teams at home to 6-9 teams (Giants and Lions) and a third at home to a 7-8 team (Broncos host Raiders).

Add in 5-10 Panthers at home to a Saints team who have already clinched the division and a 4-11 Falcons at a Buccs side who have already secured their wildcard spot and might rest players and it is perhaps unlikely that everyone other than us loses out.

The drop from 5th to 8th in each round would be the equivalent of the 56th pick, a late 2nd rounder. This is as compared to the drop from 3rd to 5th being a late 1st rounder.

I'm usually a proponent of tanking but I'd take the win. What we'd lose out in the draft I think we'd gain in being able to attract better free agents (or paying less of a premium). If I'm a free agent and the Bengals win their final 3 I'd be looking at a team that has beaten the Steelers, the Ravens, the Titans and would be getting back Joe Burrow (and numerous others). That looks like a team about to be competitive.

(12-28-2020, 01:22 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: That’s what I was getting at with a guard rising. If there happened to be a guard that rose bc everyone thought he was the next Quenton Nelson, that would be a solid pick. But we have a great shot at an edge rusher, and that’s our biggest need. Have a shot at a corner or wideout as well. Sewell was a bit of a pipe dream as he definitely goes 2 or 3. At that point the difference from drafting 6 to drafting 3rd or 4th isn’t that big (assuming Sewell is picked before us).

Is edge rusher really our biggest need?

I think it's interior pass rush.

(12-28-2020, 01:43 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: What if we beat Baltimore and end up at 11. Is Slater okay at 11? 

Another name I have heard lately at the tackle spot moving up boards is the guy from Virginia Tech, Darrisaw. Scouting reports on him actually seem promising. Maybe they trade down a few spots and still land Darrisaw or Slater while adding a pick.

"He uses his hands extremely well, possessing a mean initial punch, and an efficient latch as he moves his way up towards the second level. His hips and back remain extremely flexible, Darrisaw is able to absorb contact in his pass set without compromising his anchor. Speaking of his anchor, Darrisaw plays with immense strength, tossing bodies off of the point of attack as he uses his length to keep defenders out of his frame as he frames off lanes. He plays with a high level of physicality as he looks to bury the man across from him as he plays whistle-to-whistle, giving his all for all 60 minutes."

Another consideration will be how ready these guys are. I think Slater sat out the year (as did Sewell). Will he be ready to protect a Joe Burrow returning from a serious knee injury week 1 or are these more projections for what he will be in a year or two's time with some extra polish? If one of these are the pick, do the Bengals still need to keep Hart around as insurance?

[Waite Hoyt]

(12-28-2020, 04:55 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well, there we keep coming back to the limitations of the coaching staff. We shouldn’t take Sewell because he’s raw, and Jim Tuner sucks. We shouldn’t take Pitts because Taylor doesn’t utilize TE’s enough...

Maybe we should just get better coaches.

The coaches are fine we need better players. OL,DL,

[*ochocincos*]

(12-29-2020, 07:49 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: You really cant support that moving from 3 to 5 means you just have to develop a player to be good but if u pick 1 2 3 player you dont have to develop them..

That's not what I meant.

What I meant was that when fans are worried about how well the coaches are at developing talent, they want the earliest pick possible to take the highest-rated prospect because they think that player is the best/easiest to become a great player.

Fans want Sewell because they think he has an All-Pro ceiling but also should be a monster right out of the gate. And they have worry that if they miss out on Sewell, they may get a guy who isn't as good right away and needs some critical developmental work to become good. Given how Turner doesn't really have a track record of developing players into elite guys, they want Sewell because they feel he's already going to be great and won't need much work at all.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-29-2020, 10:40 AM)Waite Hoyt Wrote: The coaches are fine we need better players. OL,DL,

The coaches are not even close to fine. We have an OL coach who was previously run out of the league, and has never produced good results anywhere he’s been. And a DC that was about our 5th choice for the position. If they were fine we wouldn’t have stories about toxic locker room, coaches refusing to teach technique, Dunlap having to be traded away for peanuts, etc.

We need better players for sure, but in no way shape or form are the coaches “fine.”

[Frank Booth]

(12-28-2020, 04:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's always a factor when taking prospects. Look at Josh Allen in BUF for example. If he didn't have a good coaching staff that could develop him well, he'd have probably been a huge flop, as he needed a lot of work. You can't just take any player and expect them to turn into greatness. You have to have the staff to turn the projects into good players.

But that's why people are so mad about losing draft position, as we don't trust this staff to develop anyone.

Josh Allen deserves credit for Josh Allen

He used the crap he was getting from people to motivate him and take the next step

[*ochocincos*]

(12-29-2020, 11:31 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Josh Allen deserves credit for Josh Allen

He used the crap he was getting from people to motivate him and take the next step

Josh Allen also owes a lot of credit to the Bills staff for teaching him proper mechanics. His accuracy has drastically improved this year compared to the previous two and in college.
52.8% -> 58.8% -> 69.1% is pretty incredible.

[*Synric*]

(12-29-2020, 11:33 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Josh Allen also owes a lot of credit to the Bills staff for teaching him proper mechanics. His accuracy has drastically improved this year compared to the previous two and in college.
52.8% -> 58.8% -> 69.1% is pretty incredible.

Jordan Palmer became his off-season QB coach too. 

[Frank Booth]

(12-29-2020, 11:33 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Josh Allen also owes a lot of credit to the Bills staff for teaching him proper mechanics. His accuracy has drastically improved this year compared to the previous two and in college.
52.8% -> 58.8% -> 69.1% is pretty incredible.

Well I guess I give Allen more credit than you do lol

His improvement starts and ends with him. Coaches help along the way, but Allen deserves most of the credit