What have we learned in the past few weeks?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-28-2020, 12:37 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: MJ should have been benched earlier. He nearly single handedly derailed the line.

The Elise Jesse article on favortism seemed to help his benching.

There weren't many options at that time. Finney was on Covid restrictions, XSF was still out, Redmond had a chest injury he was nursing.... coincidence and timing is more like it.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 11:34 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: This.... look at the conference leaders....all of them can block and rush the passer, TN being the exception on the latter point. The game is still predicated on winning at the point of attack.

Weapons are important, too. Ask the Patriots.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-28-2020, 11:58 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Weapons are important, too. Ask the Patriots.

Not playing a washed up running QB helps too....

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 12:06 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Not playing a washed up running QB helps too....

They couldn’t do shit last year either even with the GOAT. They had to trade for Mo Sanu because it was so bad. Brady had one the worst seasons of his career (2nd lowest # of TD’s with 24, 88.0 rating), but once he got to TB (where they have elite weapons) 36 TD and a 101.0 rating.

You need both. Trenches and skill.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-28-2020, 12:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They couldn’t do shit last year either even with the GOAT. They had to trade for Mo Sanu because it was so bad. Brady had one the worst seasons of his career (2nd lowest # of TD’s with 24, 88.0 rating), but once he got to TB (where they have elite weapons) 36 TD and a 101.0 rating.

You need both. Trenches and skill.

You do need both....but you can win games with good blocking and good pressure and average skill players. Remember Bort Bortles going to the AFCCG?

Tom's numbers may have dipped, but they still went to the playoffs. Newton is toast. I'd bet you that they are a contender in the east if their QB could throw for more than 90 yds. It looks like Hoodie shoulda pulled the trigger on someone else as a stop gap at QB.

With stellar oline play, you can make some mediocre skill players look good, not great. With stellar skill players and shit oline, you can't win. As proof, I give you the Cincinnati Bengals. The Lions make a case too.

The Bengals are in a good and rare spot where they can have BOTH, and they absolutely should do it. They've got Burrow and Higgins on rookie deals, Boyd isn't absolutely breaking the bank right now. So they should spend on the line right now.

[impactplaya]

(12-27-2020, 11:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The biggest, most obvious thing to me is that in spite of some speculation, the team has not quit on the coaching staff.  Perhaps a little heat from media and personalities on social media may have inspired some rethinking on the part of the staff, or not.  Whatever the case, weather it be a collective gathering of professional pride on part of the players, or the coaching staff taking an introspective look and making some necessary changes, it seems to be working.

I'm sure that it must be reassuring to Joe Burrow to see the team double down and solidify their resolve while he is rehabbing.  Some may call these latest two wins "meaningless", but I guarantee that they mean a hell of a lot to every man who wears the striped helmet.  How nice will it be to get Joe back, and have a team that believes in itself for Joe to come back to?

What I think I know:

Brandon Allen deserves a secure deal to remain as Joe's backup going forward.

With XSF at LG and Spain at RG, the interior of the OL has seemed to stop the bleeding.  Teams can no longer pass rush up the gut at will, and we seem to be getting better push in the run game.  I hope that they sign Spain to a 3 year deal, and keep him around until the next permanent Guard of the future is drafted and properly developed.  I still think they need a bona fide stud at Tackle, either to pair with Williams, or assume his spot should he never achieve full greatness.  Missing 75% of his games due to injury in his first two years is a bit concerning to me.  That is partly why I have been such a die hard on the Penei Sewell bandwagon.

Our backup RBs are pretty good.  We all knew what Gio Bernard was capable of, when used properly.  Samaje Perine has shown to be worth keeping around, as well.  Not the quickest out of the gate, but dude has a second gear when in open territory.  Given a crease, those massive thighs just keep churning, not bad hands either.

Tee Higgins is for real, he will be a modest to medium star in this league. Boyd is going to continue to be Boyd: steady, dependable, not one for the defense to sleep on.  AJ Green looked like absolute dog shit to start the year.  However, in the past month or so, he's gotten his rhythm back on, and is looking much like his old self.  Part of me would like to see him signed to a modest 3 year deal, and retire as a Bengal.  (He may be looking for one last huge payday)  After that, WR gets a bit murky.  Erickson looked clutch a few times today, but typically he's a non factor.  Would like to see an over the top, role player WR signed in free agency, while a mid round pick is drafted and developed to complete the game day 5.

Drew Sample is NOT a bum, and he indeed CAN find the end zone, as was proven today.     Yes, we need another TE, NO I don't feel like we need to take Kyle Pitts with our top pick.  This team doesn't utilize the TE position nearly enough to justify ignoring fundamental position group NEEDS in favor of a shiny, new weapon.

On defense:

Too much to cram into this post.  We can discuss that one in another thread.

1. This team is finally having a idea on how to finish games

2.Brandon Allen I hope is the backup next year. But Im sure a few qb needy teams took notice of his game vs the Texans

3.XSF and Spain are a reason why the running game is 
Moving the chains and the QB isnt on the ground as much
I would still sign a FA OG and draft one.
But MJ and Redmond have no reason to be on this roster 
In 2021

4.OT needs to be the 1st pick in 2021. Trade up if you have to secure Sewell

5.Perrine looked like Marshawn Lunch at times vs the Texans
I dont cut Gio.hes a pro's pro.
A healthy Mixon gives this team a nice 3-headed monster at RB.
Ask the Ravens and Browns how thats turning out

6.I agree with WR assessment

7.TE is a bigger need than many believe.Sample is more run blocker than downfield threat. Uzomah is a fine #2 TE.
But this,offense needs a TE that can scare DC and is a match up problem. Burrow manipulates the middle of the field as,well as,any QB. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 12:32 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: You do need both....but you can win games with good blocking and good pressure and average skill players. Remember Bort Bortles going to the AFCCG?

Tom's numbers may have dipped, but they still went to the playoffs. Newton is toast. I'd bet you that they are a contender in the east if their QB could throw for more than 90 yds. It looks like Hoodie shoulda pulled the trigger on someone else as a stop gap at QB.

With stellar oline play, you can make some mediocre skill players look good, not great. With stellar skill players and shit oline, you can't win. As proof, I give you the Cincinnati Bengals. The Lions make a case too.

The Bengals are in a good and rare spot where they can have BOTH, and they absolutely should do it. They've got Burrow and Higgins on rookie deals, Boyd isn't absolutely breaking the bank right now. So they should spend on the line right now.

I wish his name really was Bort Bortles...LOL

Yes, the Pats went to the playoffs, but they got bounced in the wild card game, at home. Pretty bad for that franchise.

And I disagree that Belichick should have pulled the trigger on a different QB. It wouldn’t have mattered with what they have on offense. Their leading WR is an UDFA (Jakobi Meyers) with like 600 yds. Absolutely no way they’re a contender with that offense. They would never be able to keep up with teams like KC or Buffalo. Idc who the QB was.

It actually made sense to see if Cam could make up for the holes on offense with his legs. Hasn’t worked out, but I get the thinking behind it. At this point they need to go into full rebuild mode, and fix that offense.

But back to the Bengals. I agree OL and DL are our biggest needs. But the 1st round pick doesn’t have to automatically be used there. We can utilize FA (hopefully a OG), pick a DE in the 2nd etc. I just don’t want to get too locked in on any one position and miss out on a special talent (like a Pitts) because of the “shiny toy” mentality. I get that you have to balance need with BPA, but really no position other than QB, RB, and safety should be off the board with any given pick.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Who’s better? Bort Bortles or Marshawn Lunch? :D

[BengalChris]

Frankly, we've learned that the team is an NFL football team and not a want-a-be knock off from China.

However, it is still one of the weaker teams and is still worse than the team 3 years ago.

Beating a reeling Steelers squad (very enjoyable), then bottom feeder Houston isn't exactly a ringing endorsement that would lead one to believe this team and coaching staff will ever compete for a divisional championship, let along an NFL championship.

It took this coaching staff all year long to figure out enough to put up a couple of W's. The same was true last season. The NFL will be different again next season, there will be new players on this team. It very might take this staff most of another season to figure out how to put up a couple of W's again. I see little growth from this staff. It really should have had a good running game from the opening bell this year, but it was as if they regressed to the first half of last season.

[*bengalfan74*]

I haven't read the entire thread but I'm sure you guys have covered most of what I'd say, but......

Just in case it hasn't been covered I'd caution against getting to geeked up about what is "fixed" on this team. We beat an injury riddled Steelers team that isn't all of that despite their record. And we beat one of the worst D's in the NFL yesterday.

I'm elated we won, it's just that I'm shoving my glass of kool-aid away on everything being good now.

[BURROWorBUST]

(12-28-2020, 05:34 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Gee, I wonder who he’d pick between those two...

Right? But maybe he'd pick Pitts, depending on how much he thinks Pitts is a generational talent who could do for us what Kittles and Kelce do for their teams. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-28-2020, 01:00 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I wish his name really was Bort Bortles...LOL

Yes, the Pats went to the playoffs, but they got bounced in the wild card game, at home. Pretty bad for that franchise.

And I disagree that Belichick should have pulled the trigger on a different QB. It wouldn’t have mattered with what they have on offense. Their leading WR is an UDFA (Jakobi Meyers) with like 600 yds. Absolutely no way they’re a contender with that offense. They would never be able to keep up with teams like KC or Buffalo. Idc who the QB was.

It actually made sense to see if Cam could make up for the holes on offense with his legs. Hasn’t worked out, but I get the thinking behind it. At this point they need to go into full rebuild mode, and fix that offense.

But back to the Bengals. I agree OL and DL are our biggest needs. But the 1st round pick doesn’t have to automatically be used there. We can utilize FA (hopefully a OG), pick a DE in the 2nd etc. I just don’t want to get too locked in on any one position and miss out on a special talent (like a Pitts) because of the “shiny toy” mentality. I get that you have to balance need with BPA, but really no position other than QB, RB, and safety should be off the board with any given pick.

If they go skill position, I'd like speed at the WR spot...but only if Sewell isn't there. If he is, pull the trigger, get a G in FA as well as a burner.

I wish that was really his name too...lol. I have laughed at that since the first time I saw Nately type it.

I mean, I guess it was worth a shot, but with that bum shoulder, I'm not sold it was a good gamble. When I said contender in the east, I meant vying for the division, or perhaps a wild card with better QB play. Michele is a good back, so is Damien Harris, and Burkhead is a solid situational back. Seems they whiffed on Harry...and the WRs are weak. That said, with good QB play, mostly the same squad was a playoff team. They generally block well.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-28-2020, 12:32 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: You do need both....but you can win games with good blocking and good pressure and average skill players. Remember Bort Bortles going to the AFCCG?

With stellar oline play, you can make some mediocre skill players look good, not great. With stellar skill players and shit oline, you can't win. As proof, I give you the Cincinnati Bengals. The Lions make a case too.

So they should spend on the line right now.

Absolutely! Spot-on! What needs to also be said is even with the best offensive linemen on the roster they can’t do jack squat without a coach who teaches a proper scheme — and right now the Bengals do not have one. Even if Penei Sewell did end up in Cincinnati he would still be mentored by Jim Turner and I want better.

Also, the defensive line needs a new coach and a better scheme too. On good defenses against the run the linemen lead in tackles but on bad defenses the secondary leads in tackles. Guess where the Bengals are? Not good; that I can tell you. How many sacks does the defense have? I think we’re last in the league or close to it. The Bengals don’t get pressure on the quarterback and the same technique is used to stop running backs behind the line of scrimmage.

Sunset and Wyche, two of my favorite posters, have nailed it once again. The greatest coaches built their dynasties from the trenches outward: Brown in Cleveland, Lombardi in Green Bay, Noll in Pittsburgh, Landry and Johnson in Dallas, and Belichick in New England. Now we’re starting to see this in New Orleans as well.

[DesertBengal]

I learned that, that the staff must really hate J. Ross.

They would rather activate and trot out Trenton Irwin, than give John Ross snaps.  It's clear that Ross has been a bust and struggles with mental errors and drops, but I find it curious that Irwin is being considered a better option.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-28-2020, 02:08 PM)DesertBengal Wrote: I learned that, that the staff must really hate J. Ross.

They would rather activate and trot out Trenton Irwin, than give John Ross snaps.  It's clear that Ross has been a bust and struggles with mental errors and drops, but I find it curious that Irwin is being considered a better option.

It must be contagious, Marvin didn't like him either....lol.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 02:08 PM)DesertBengal Wrote: I learned that, that the staff must really hate J. Ross.

They would rather activate and trot out Trenton Irwin, than give John Ross snaps.  It's clear that Ross has been a bust and struggles with mental errors and drops, but I find it curious that Irwin is being considered a better option.

LOL that is pretty crazy.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-28-2020, 02:12 PM)Wyche Wrote: It must be contagious, Marvin didn't like him either....lol.

He didn't indeed

But isn't Ross on the IR ? I don't pretend to understand the whole 2020/covid roster shuffling rules but is he even available ?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 02:06 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The greatest coaches built their dynasties from the trenches outward: Brown in Cleveland, Lombardi in Green Bay, Noll in Pittsburgh, Landry and Johnson in Dallas, and Belichick in New England. Now we’re starting to see this in New Orleans as well.

Most of your examples are from 50+ years ago...

But yes the trenches remain a crucial component to this day. Literally no one is denying that. Just pointing out the best teams are also stacked at the skill positions, too. You mention New Orleans, well they have a couple of the best weapons in the game with Michael Thomas and Alvin Kamara. Also a Pro Bowl TE in Jared Cook.

[XenoMorph]

(12-28-2020, 02:08 PM)DesertBengal Wrote: I learned that, that the staff must really hate J. Ross.

They would rather activate and trot out Trenton Irwin, than give John Ross snaps.  It's clear that Ross has been a bust and struggles with mental errors and drops, but I find it curious that Irwin is being considered a better option.

the john ross pick always had the feel of mike brown invoking his inner al davis....

i understood the concept of what a ross like WR could do.... it just never came about. (for whatever reason) 

[ezekiel23]

Bengals get Reader and Waynes back on defense next year.Jonah Williams will be back.Joe Burrow I believe will start the season,or close to it.It appears we have a competent back-up to Burrow now.Need a good WR in the first round.And also a good pass rusher in the early rounds.Pick up a good DC in the off season.Fire Anarumo.You have to admit,This Oline is getting much better.I don’t care what the PFF grades are.Then of course you’ll have Jonah Williams back next year.This team is going to roll right into the playoffs next year,despite Zac being HC.