Besides DK Metcalf or Mecole Hardman, who would you have drafted besides Drew Sample?

[DYT_Bengal]

It was not an apparent need that we needed a WR and I doubt Hardman would have had the same success he has had on the Bengals. And for this discussion - trading down or up is not allowed. Sometimes drafts force peoples hands - I think peoples opinions about Sample would be different if Pratt and Sample pick positions were switched. And with that in mind, I am very pleased with Zac Taylor’s drafting so far.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 03:52 PM)willieFANderson Wrote: It was not an apparent need that we needed a WR and I doubt Hardman would have had the same success he has had on the Bengals. And for this discussion - trading down or up is not allowed. Sometimes drafts force peoples hands - I think peoples opinions about Sample would be different if Pratt and Sample pick positions were switched. And with that in mind, I am very pleased with Zac Taylor’s drafting so far.

No, the 3rd round would have still been too early to take a blocking TE.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-28-2020, 03:52 PM)willieFANderson Wrote: It was not an apparent need that we needed a WR and I doubt Hardman would have had the same success he has had on the Bengals. And for this discussion - trading down or up is not allowed. Sometimes drafts force peoples hands - I think peoples opinions about Sample would be different if Pratt and Sample pick positions were switched. And with that in mind, I am very pleased with Zac Taylor’s drafting so far.

I do think it would have helped if Pratt and Sample were swapped in rounds, but I had the following TEs ahead of Sample in my evaluations:
- Hockenson (duh)
- Fant (duh)
- Jace Sternberger
- Josh Oliver
- Dawson Knox
- Kaden Smith
- Isaac Nauta
- Caleb Wilson

Knox has more production than Sample, Smith has same yardage but 2 more TDs than Sample.
Knox was taken as a comp pick at the end of Rd 3, Kaden Smith was a 6th rounder.

I had Sample as a 5th rounder or later, but I also wanted a more proven receiver if a TE was to be taken earlier. Taylor clearly prioritizes blocking, and Sample has been a good blocker. He also has been an ok 5th option after being forced into a starting role.

It's important to remember that if Uzomah hadn't gone down, Sample's production would likely be (way) lower too, as he was the backup to start the season. So he's gotten more opportunities than most of these guys in the above list too.

Another way to look at Sample's production is to look at Robert Tonyan from GB. Tonyan is having an Eifert-like season with 568 yards and 10 TDs this year, and he's in his 3rd season after being picked up as a UDFA. So it's possible to get guys to contribute a few hundred yards and some TDs at the TE position without taking them on Day 2 of the draft. The only reason to take a TE prior to Day 3 should be because they have some elite traits that make them a mismatch nightmare as a receiver. Sample is not a mismatch nightmare, but he's an ok well-rounded TE who would be a solid backup on any other team.

[THE PISTONS]

Metcalf was the obvious choice...especially with Green aging/injured. It's who I wanted.

You can't saw WR wasn't a big need...as the next year, we drafted Higgins in the 2nd Round. We had similar personnel both years at WR and they viewed it as a 2nd Round need.

The bottom line is that in the NFL, blocking TE's don't go 2nd Round. TE's that can run fast and catch passes do.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 04:43 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Metcalf was the obvious choice...especially with Green aging/injured. It's who I wanted.

You can't saw WR wasn't a big need...as the next year, we drafted Higgins in the 2nd Round. We had similar personnel both years at WR and they viewed it as a 2nd Round need.

The bottom line is that in the NFL, blocking TE's don't go 2nd Round. TE's that can run fast and catch passes do.

Yeah, I remember you banging the drum big time for Metcalf.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-28-2020, 04:46 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yeah, I remember you banging the drum big time for Metcalf.

I like the premise of this thread though...IF not for this HOF caliber player, WHO would you have taken over Sample? The HOF caliber guy wasn't a need!

[THE PISTONS]

Miles Sanders went the pick after Sample. Taylor Rapp is a pretty good Safety. Diontae Johnson.

[CJD]

Looking at the 2nd and 3rd rounds of 2019, there has not really been many impact players that would have been available to us at our pick. I was heartbroken when Jawaan Taylor, Greg Little, Cody Ford and Dalton Risner all went in the 9 selections before our pick. Those were the players we desperately needed and there really weren't many OTs that were graded as 2nd rounders past that point. The next offensive tackle selected was Max Scharping out of Northern Illinois, but he was being graded in the 3rd to 4th round range, so it would been a hard pill to swallow to draft him at the top of the 2nd. And he was also one of those OTs that probably fit better at guard moving forward.

I wanted Irv Smith Jr at our original pick, but he wasn't available once we traded down. Sternberger would have been a reach as well, but I don't think it was as blatant a reach as Sample was.

If I go back to my thought process in the moment and based on draft profiles rather than their production to this point, I would probably have taken Zach Allen or maybe Dre'Mont Jones. I felt DLine was a big point of emphasis that we didn't address soon enough in the actual draft.

Going back over my past threads and mock drafts, I was very interested in replacing Dalton so I suspect I would have also been sniffing around Drew Lock, as I definitely didn't want Dalton as our QB in 2019 and moving forward, but I think getting Burrow is obviously infinitely better so it's hard to endorse that pick now.

There's still time for these players to emerge and show who would have been a true value pick, but as of right now I don't think this pick was catastrophic as much as it was just disappointing and anti-climactic.

[kalibengal]

(12-28-2020, 04:38 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I do think it would have helped if Pratt and Sample were swapped in rounds, but I had the following TEs ahead of Sample in my evaluations:
- Hockenson (duh)
- Fant (duh)
- Jace Sternberger
- Josh Oliver
- Dawson Knox
- Kaden Smith
- Isaac Nauta
- Caleb Wilson

Knox has more production than Sample, Smith has same yardage but 2 more TDs than Sample.
Knox was taken as a comp pick at the end of Rd 3, Kaden Smith was a 6th rounder.

I had Sample as a 5th rounder or later, but I also wanted a more proven receiver if a TE was to be taken earlier. Taylor clearly prioritizes blocking, and Sample has been a good blocker. He also has been an ok 5th option after being forced into a starting role.

It's important to remember that if Uzomah hadn't gone down, Sample's production would likely be (way) lower too, as he was the backup to start the season. So he's gotten more opportunities than most of these guys in the above list too.

Another way to look at Sample's production is to look at Robert Tonyan from GB. Tonyan is having an Eifert-like season with 568 yards and 10 TDs this year, and he's in his 3rd season after being picked up as a UDFA. So it's possible to get guys to contribute a few hundred yards and some TDs at the TE position without taking them on Day 2 of the draft. The only reason to take a TE prior to Day 3 should be because they have some elite traits that make them a mismatch nightmare as a receiver. Sample is not a mismatch nightmare, but he's an ok well-rounded TE who would be a solid backup on any other team.

I think we all can now acknowledge the Sample pick was WAY too high for what he can do....looking to future I am praying they can hit on a more dynamic TE in FA or in Draft.....I see Burrow needing this much like Brady does.   

[*bfine32*]

Hindsight being what it is Terry McLaurin seems like a good choice

Relooking the draft some I liked in that area:

Chase Winovich
Lonnie Johnson (UK)
Elgton Jenkins (original pick)

I also remember being higher on Dawson Creek Knox at TE than most.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-28-2020, 05:02 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I think we all can now acknowledge the Sample pick was WAY too high for what he can do....looking to future I am praying they can hit on a more dynamic TE in FA or in Draft.....I see Burrow needing this much like Brady does.   

If the Bengals are trying to mimic what LSU did in Burrow's final year, the TE was the 4th/5th option in the passing game.
WRs were the top 3, and TE and RB were 4 and 5.

I personally think a TE as the 2nd or 3rd option is great, but Burrow (and Taylor) may prefer another WR over a dynamic TE.

[*michaelsean*]

(12-28-2020, 04:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No, the 3rd round would have still been too early to take a blocking TE.

Blocking TE? Dude’s averaging a TD a game since the Houston game.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 06:24 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Blocking TE? Dude’s averaging a TD a game since the Houston game.

True.

The floodgates are gonna open now. Look out Travis Kelce!

[*ochocincos*]

(12-28-2020, 04:57 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Looking at the 2nd and 3rd rounds of 2019, there has not really been many impact players that would have been available to us at our pick.  I was heartbroken when Jawaan Taylor, Greg Little, Cody Ford and Dalton Risner all went in the 9 selections before our pick. Those were the players we desperately needed and there really weren't many OTs that were graded as 2nd rounders past that point. The next offensive tackle selected was Max Scharping out of Northern Illinois, but he was being graded in the 3rd to 4th round range, so it would been a hard pill to swallow to draft him at the top of the 2nd. And he was also one of those OTs that probably fit better at guard moving forward.

I wanted Irv Smith Jr at our original pick, but he wasn't available once we traded down. Sternberger would have been a reach as well, but I don't think it was as blatant a reach as Sample was.

If I go back to my thought process in the moment and based on draft profiles rather than their production to this point, I would probably have taken Zach Allen or maybe Dre'Mont Jones. I felt DLine was a big point of emphasis that we didn't address soon enough in the actual draft.

Going back over my past threads and mock drafts, I was very interested in replacing Dalton so I suspect I would have also been sniffing around Drew Lock, as I definitely didn't want Dalton as our QB in 2019 and moving forward, but I think getting Burrow is obviously infinitely better so it's hard to endorse that pick now.

There's still time for these players to emerge and show who would have been a true value pick, but as of right now I don't think this pick was catastrophic as much as it was just disappointing and anti-climactic.

I liked DreMont Jones as an heir to Atkins, but the Bengals decided a blocking TE (edit - with pass catching upside) was more important than pass rush.
DreMont Rd 2, TE in Rd 4 vs Sample in Rd 2, Wren in Rd 4.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2020, 06:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I liked DreMont Jones as an heir to Atkins, but the Bengals decided a blocking TE was more important than pass rush.
DreMont Rd 2, TE in Rd 4 vs Sample in Rd 2, Wren in Rd 4.

His 5 sacks this season would be 2nd on our team (and only .5 behind Lawson for 1st).

[CoachGeorge]

(12-28-2020, 03:52 PM)willieFANderson Wrote: It was not an apparent need that we needed a WR and I doubt Hardman would have had the same success he has had on the Bengals. And for this discussion - trading down or up is not allowed. Sometimes drafts force peoples hands - I think peoples opinions about Sample would be different if Pratt and Sample pick positions were switched. And with that in mind, I am very pleased with Zac Taylor’s drafting so far.

I think it is a mistake to call 2019 “Zac Taylor’s” draft. He likely spent 2018 on one team and their opponents, not college FB. In the 2 months he was on the job, he mostly spent his introducing himself to the organization, installing his playbook, scouting his own players and familiarizing himself to the AFC North. As well as the logistics of moving from Cal to Cincinnati. He undoubtedly signed off on picks, but I wouldn’t excuse him for not objecting wanting to being seen as team first guy.

The substantial difference in 2019 and 2020 drafts seems to confirm.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-28-2020, 07:40 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: I think it is a mistake to call 2019 “Zac Taylor’s” draft.  He likely spent 2018 on one team and their opponents, not college FB.  In the 2 months he was on the job, he mostly spent his introducing himself to the organization, installing his playbook, scouting his own players and familiarizing himself to the AFC North.  As well as the logistics of moving from Cal to Cincinnati. He undoubtedly signed off on picks, but I wouldn’t excuse him for not objecting wanting to being seen as team first guy.

The substantial difference in 2019 and 2020 drafts seems to confirm.

Things fans like they attribute to Zac. But the disastrous 2019 free agent class belongs to Bengals management.

[phil413]

About 100 players, though I only mocked Erik McCoy to fall with McGovern as a worst case or Mack Wilson (way off, he went in the 5th and has a 35PFF).

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

"Other than the 2 Pro Bowlers taken within 12 picks of him..." Lol


But to answer the thread, Miles Sanders seems a pretty easy pick. He was taken with the very next pick and could have filled in Gio's role for about 1/4th the money last year, and after his performance would have removed the need to pay Joe Mixon $48m.

Also Diontae Johnson (14 picks after Sample) has shown some flashes of excellence and would have been a great #3 that would have eliminated the need to franchise tag AJ Green this year.

ALSO ALO don't forget that the reason why they were picking 52nd in the first place was because they traded down from 42nd (to get the picks they spent on Renell Wren and Trayveon Williams, so not worth it), which means Pro Bowl G Elgton Jenkins and Pro Bowl WR AJ Brown would have been available at 42.

So that's 6 other picks within the Sample pick and the Bengals original 2nd round pick slot (so not even stretching for a 4th round breakout guy or anything) that would have been much much MUCH better.

[THE PISTONS]

Pratt grades out at 49.2 by PFF and just had a 36 grade against Houston. I don't know that taking Pratt in the 2nd Round and Sample in the 3rd would ease the blow.

Sample grades out at 59.9.