Recent history says keeping Zac is a mistake

[*jason*]

(12-31-2020, 09:34 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: Maybe your definition of shit football is different than mine. If you cant win a playoff game you are playing shit football. Marvin Lewis coached us  for 15 years without winning a playoff game, That is SHIT! I am so tired of being happy we made the playoffs only to get knocked out the first game. I was so happy as were many on here to hire someone outside the organization. I just want to give that person a chance.
If you fire him after 2 seasons what coach in their right mind would want this job knowing the Bengals front office history? If you don't make the playoffs in 2 years we are looking for another coach mentality is the wrong mentality. If ZT does not show improvement next year which I feel he will then they can get rid of him. Improvement to me would be around 8-8 and competing in all of your games.

Well you ain't winning a playoff game when you can't win 1 pm games, road games, or even sniff the postseason either. Freddy Kitchens was fired after one season by a team notorious for spitting out coaches. The Browns managed to bring in the right guy... And look. I'm not so wrapped up in my feelings and opinions that I mind being wrong. I hope Zac Taylor is the real deal (we're stuck with him for God knows how long), and he's just sputtering til he gets his master plan laid out. I'm not above giving him compliments when they're warrented. I just don't see it, and I don't like excuses.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-31-2020, 08:18 PM)jason Wrote: I keep hearing this... What SPECIFICALLY is hindering this from being a 2 year turnaround?.... What EXACTLY is it about the Rona that is also holding Zac Taylor back?

Zac is what prevented it from being a 2 year turnaround.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-31-2020, 09:10 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: SPECIFICALLY injuries to our top players have hindered it. We also have a rookie QB.
We had a losing culture for the last 15 years that will not be easy to change.
Some players preferred the way it was under ML and did not put forth effort.

We have been watching shit football for the last 15-20 years what is wrong with giving the guy his 3-4 years?

What do you have to lose?

Stop watching them if you hate him so much. 

Lol! Go ahead and start the 'No coach could win with Joe Burrow' narrative!

[*jason*]

(12-31-2020, 10:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Zac is what prevented it from being a 2 year turnaround.

I mean... I'm not even asking a lot of the guy. Last year was whatever. Should they have won more than 2 games? Prolly....

This year... I dunno... Win 6-9 games. Why not? I'm reasonable. If they win Sunday, that's 5 wins. 5 wins for a team that lost their up and coming star QB. Have to figure that with him, they'd be in the ballpark of 7 wins, but they gotta get that 5th one for me to feel that way.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-31-2020, 09:51 PM)jason Wrote: Well you ain't winning a playoff game when you can't win 1 pm games, road games, or even sniff the postseason either. Freddy Kitchens was fired after one season by a team notorious for spitting out coaches. The Browns managed to bring in the right guy... And look. I'm not so wrapped up in my feelings and opinions that I mind being wrong. I hope Zac Taylor is the real deal (we're stuck with him for God knows how long), and he's just sputtering til he gets his master plan laid out. I'm not above giving him compliments when they're warrented. I just don't see it, and I don't like excuses.

This is me as well. Since Zac is most likely coming back for year 3 I'd love nothing more than for him to go 11-5 and win a damn playoff game. I'd give him all the praise in the world. But in the same breath I have no tolerance for going 7-9 and having another laundry list of excuses.

Fact is Zac has won exactly two games against teams that finished season with winning record in two full seasons (we're not beating Ravens). And other than a handful of games with Joe B. masking ZT's shortcomings we've looked nothing like an NFL even decent team !

There's nothing/zero/nadah that leads me to believe Taylor is going to pull it all together next season, hope I'm wrong.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-31-2020, 08:16 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: It is not as much Zac fanboy as much as I think it is only fair to give hime his chance. Even under normal circumstances this was never going to be a 2 year turnaround. With Covid it probably will be a 3 to 4 year turnaround. I am willing to let it play out. Did you actually expect a coach to takeover this disaster and turn it around in 2 years? I hope not.

You keep acting like Taylor took over an 0-16 Browns or Lions team. Marvin won 6 games the year before. And the COVID excuse is super weak. Did it hinder Flores, Kingsbury, or Stefanski?

If we waste the majority of Joe Burrow’s rookie contract with this guy, it would be unforgivable. Next year needs to be it. Either win or your gone.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-31-2020, 11:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You keep acting like Taylor took over an 0-16 Browns or Lions team. Marvin won 6 games the year before. And the COVID excuse is super weak. Did it hinder Flores, Kingsbury, or Stefanski?

If we waste the majority of Joe Burrow’s rookie contract with this guy, it would be unforgivable. Next year needs to be it. Either win or your gone.

We'll win 6 or 7 games next year and these Homer's will talk about injuries, how Burrow had no offseason, etc.

The bar is low here.

[Murdock2420]

(12-31-2020, 07:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You're obviously a Zac fanboy. 4 of you on here now. What a club!

Coaches can improve, but as holic noted in other threads, most coaches that start as bad as Zac dont make it to year 3 and the ones that do get fired then.

The first issue Zac has is he doesnt think he needs to change.

I'm not a fanboy of Taylor

I don't care who the coach is, I just want the team to win.

I'm also worried about the Bengals hiring a new coach and things getting worse. 

They get a new coach and 2021 is shot while the new coach changes things up, then maybe 2022 the team competes? Then we hit the last year of Burrow on a rookie contract.

There is just no sure thing, and to keep from pulling a Cleveland on our QBs it seems like the smart move is to get a good D coordinator, a new line coach, and let the O coordinator call plays. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-01-2021, 04:19 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I'm not a fanboy of Taylor

I don't care who the coach is, I just want the team to win.

I'm also worried about the Bengals hiring a new coach and things getting worse. 

They get a new coach and 2021 is shot while the new coach changes things up, then maybe 2022 the team competes? Then we hit the last year of Burrow on a rookie contract.

There is just no sure thing, and to keep from pulling a Cleveland on our QBs it seems like the smart move is to get a good D coordinator, a new line coach, and let the O coordinator call plays. 

I don’t think that last one is ever going to happen tbh. Taylor will probably be calling the plays as long as he’s here.

[Murdock2420]

(01-01-2021, 04:23 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t think that last one is ever going to happen tbh. Taylor will probably be calling the plays as long as he’s here.

I can dream though...

Would probably improve his win total if he let someone else call the plays.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-01-2021, 04:23 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t think that last one is ever going to happen tbh. Taylor will probably be calling the plays as long as he’s here.

Agree, but I'm hoping as frugal as MB is he'll demand the OC does something besides stand on the sideline with his teeth in his mouth. 

[SuperBowlBound!]

(12-31-2020, 11:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You keep acting like Taylor took over an 0-16 Browns or Lions team. Marvin won 6 games the year before. And the COVID excuse is super weak. Did it hinder Flores, Kingsbury, or Stefanski?

If we waste the majority of Joe Burrow’s rookie contract with this guy, it would be unforgivable. Next year needs to be it. Either win or your gone.

You keep acting like Stefanski took over the same team ZT took over. Stefanski took over a team that was predicted to make the Playoffs and could be a Super Bowl contender last year. I think Flores is a good coach and I think Kingsbury is very similar to ZT. I am not sure either one will make it the NFL I just want ZT to have the opportunity to finish whatever his plan is.

[Destro]

(12-31-2020, 11:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You keep acting like Taylor took over an 0-16 Browns or Lions team. Marvin won 6 games the year before. And the COVID excuse is super weak. Did it hinder Flores, Kingsbury, or Stefanski?

If we waste the majority of Joe Burrow’s rookie contract with this guy, it would be unforgivable. Next year needs to be it. Either win or your gone.

100% this. His second year and we are at the bottom of the division, again. Player discontent showing up in the media. Taylor will likely be back next year. Being the Bengals, I can see them limping to 7-9 or 8-8, people will say it's improving, he gets a big extension and we head back into the depths of the toilet. 

[SuperBowlBound!]

(01-01-2021, 11:49 AM)Destro Wrote: 100% this. His second year and we are at the bottom of the division, again. Player discontent showing up in the media. Taylor will likely be back next year. Being the Bengals, I can see them limping to 7-9 or 8-8, people will say it's improving, he gets a big extension and we head back into the depths of the toilet. 

We are obviously not going to change each others mind. We will have to agree to disagree.

We will be bale to tell by end of next year how ZT is as a coach.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-01-2021, 11:34 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: You keep acting like Stefanski took over the same team ZT took over. Stefanski took over a team that was predicted to make the Playoffs and could be a Super Bowl contender last year. I think Flores is a good coach and I think Kingsbury is very similar to ZT. I am not sure either one will make it the NFL I just want ZT to have the opportunity to finish whatever his plan is.

Stefanski took over a team that won 6 games the year before (same as Marvin’s last season). He has them in double digit wins. His fist year. With the same covid offseason Taylor dealt with.

[SuperBowlBound!]

(01-01-2021, 11:58 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Stefanski took over a team that won 6 games the year before (same as Marvin’s last season). He has them in double digit wins. His fist year. With the same covid offseason Taylor dealt with.

Stefanski inherited team that was picked to be i the playoffs the year before. The Bengals weremnot picks dto be in playoffs.
The 2019 Browns also had a 6 game suspension on Myles Garrett that would have given them more wins.
You can argue AJ green did not play but I think we can both agree that AJ is not the same level of talent these days as Myles Garrett.
Stefanski and the Browns also had a ton of money to spend on Free agents.

[Destro]

Sounds like the John Ross Excuse Train for years. NFL is about results.

[Rubekahn29]

(12-31-2020, 11:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You keep acting like Taylor took over an 0-16 Browns or Lions team. Marvin won 6 games the year before. And the COVID excuse is super weak. Did it hinder Flores, Kingsbury, or Stefanski?

If we waste the majority of Joe Burrow’s rookie contract with this guy, it would be unforgivable. Next year needs to be it. Either win or your gone.

He finished the season 2-9 in last 11, and 1-7 in last 8. 

But yes, unless they go to playoffs next year, he absolutely needs to be gone. He needs to be gone this year, but we all know that's not happening. 

[Rubekahn29]

(01-01-2021, 11:49 AM)Destro Wrote: 100% this. His second year and we are at the bottom of the division, again. Player discontent showing up in the media. Taylor will likely be back next year. Being the Bengals, I can see them limping to 7-9 or 8-8, people will say it's improving, he gets a big extension and we head back into the depths of the toilet. 

3 teams with at least 10 win (only division) and combined 36 wins in our division (most in the league). Its not this is some dumpy division. 

But yes, he needs to make some playoff noise next year to deserve another year. He doesn't deserve one now, but he isn't going anywhere. 

[Destro]

(01-01-2021, 04:12 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: 3 teams with at least 10 win (only division) and combined 36 wins in our division (most in the league). Its not this is some dumpy division. 

But yes, he needs to make some playoff noise next year to deserve another year. He doesn't deserve one now, but he isn't going anywhere. 

Yup, division is good, except for the Bengals. 
Everyone has a chance at the playoffs, except for the Bengals. 
Each team has won multiple games in the division, except for the Bengals. 
The coaches are highly respected around the league, except for the Bengals. 

Being in a good division doesn't mean much for the Bengals. I believe they haven't won a game in the NFC this year and just won their first road game in two years. The Steelers are perennial playoff participants, the Ravens are every other year, and the Browns have turned around to being a winning team. Pretty much, this division being good only shows how bad Cincy is.