SI Report - Bengals planning "major shake up" to Taylor's staff

[fredtoast]

(01-02-2021, 05:35 PM)impactplaya Wrote: It's kinda funny how the majority of this board
Knew Jim Turner was a bad hire from the start,

Actually there were quite a few who liked Turner because he was not a PC pusssy.  They felt it was cool to have a total asshole bully as a coach because that was a sign of "toughness" and being a "real man".

[samhain]

(01-02-2021, 06:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually there were quite a few who liked Turner because he was not a PC pusssy.  They felt it was cool to have a total asshole bully as a coach because that was a sign of "toughness" and being a "real man".

Facts.

[masterpanthera_t]

(01-02-2021, 05:40 PM)Synric Wrote: When they drafted Ogbuehi, Fisher and Price I believe Marvin Lewis was the more likely running things than Tobin. After Lewis was fired Tobin has taken a more prominent role in the organorganization.

I'm betting Duke Tobin's actual GM duties started with the hiring of Taylor and the 2019 draft.

While I'd like to believe this because it means the Bengals only recently turned over GM duties away from Mike Brown,  and also that Tobin wasn't responsible for drafting Ogbuehi, Fisher, Price,  etc,  I don't think this is true. For one thing,  it would mean that ML had much more control over drafting , which I don't believe. Especially because I remember Ross being in Marvin's doghouse for all his rookie year,  and I just don't think Marvin would give so little in the way of opportunities to his handpicked first rounder. 

I hope it's true because it gives hope that the FO is coming around to a more modern NFL structure,  but I don't believe it. Perhaps if they expand the number of scouts,  it will become more believable. 

[mikey6866]

(01-01-2021, 06:12 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Oh really Fred, everything she said was correct??? Which major coaching shakeups have occurred. You have no more clue about this than I do, or she does for that matter. She's trying to get a story in by deadline and is making crap up. Fall for it if you want.

This hasn't aged well.  I think there may be more to come as well.  Lots of good defensive coordinators available right now.  It would be stupid to stick with lou.

Shoulda hired callahan when we had the chance...give h assistant hc title and bring him here like now!!

[SladeX]

(01-02-2021, 06:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually there were quite a few who liked Turner because he was not a PC pusssy.  They felt it was cool to have a total asshole bully as a coach because that was a sign of "toughness" and being a "real man".

I was willing  to give the guy a chance. CANCELLING folks on the altar of Political Correctness is anathema to me.

He turned out to be a bad coach.

But so has Zac, IMHO. 

[Bronxbengal]

(01-02-2021, 08:27 PM)SladeX Wrote: I was willing  to give the guy a chance. CANCELLING folks on the altar of Political Correctness is anathema to me.

He turned out to be a bad coach.

But so has Zac, IMHO. 

Agreed....

Just don’t bring piano man back and his ketchup evaluation.


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[CanadianBengal]

(01-02-2021, 05:42 PM)Bronxbengal Wrote: When did I defend him? I am sick of the media who operate on unnamed sources and there is no accountability on their end.  


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I don't like anonymous sources either but Dunlap went on the record with his concerns and was viewed as a problem. He didn't go about it the best way obviously but was definitely not anonymous.

It is easier to demand people go on the record thant to do it. Telling the world your boss sucks does not lead to a long career. Dunlap landed well but most coaches do not want the player who criticizes their previous coach. 

So anonymous sources will always be around but we will have to judge the credibility of the writer to what happens in the end. In this case, the writer looks to be correct and the sources factual.

[JSR18]

If the Bengals had the slightest inkling of winning. They would get 2 new coordinators.
Y'all can fight it out about the DC.

As for OC, I want Hue Jackson. Don't give 2 shits what he did in brownieland.

He had the Bengals start off 8-0 and that was with Andy Dalton. If not for a broken thumb, there was a good chance the Bengals get a 1st rd bye and at least make it the AFCCG.

Jackson is an offensive guru who could do Andy Reid shit with Joe Burrow.
The big thing is Jackson knows he's not a HC, he's a coordinator. A coordinator who has more skins than ZT and an OC who WILL call his own plays...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[BengalsRocker]

(01-02-2021, 08:35 PM)JSR18 Wrote: If the Bengals had the slightest inkling of winning. They would get 2 new coordinators.
Y'all can fight it out about the DC.

As for OC, I want Hue Jackson. Don't give 2 shits what he did in brownieland.

He had the Bengals start off 8-0 and that was with Andy Dalton. If not for a broken thumb, there was a good chance the Bengals get a 1st rd bye and at least make it the AFCCG.

Jackson is an offensive guru who could do Andy Reid shit with Joe Burrow.
The big thing is Jackson knows he's not a HC, he's a coordinator. A coordinator who has more skins than ZT and an OC who WILL call his own plays...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

You can sign me up also as an "idiot" that would give Hue a chance.

The guy was a very good coordinator here and respected coach around the league.

[lone bengal]

(01-02-2021, 05:40 PM)Synric Wrote: When they drafted Ogbuehi, Fisher and Price I believe Marvin Lewis was the more likely running things than Tobin. After Lewis was fired Tobin has taken a more prominent role in the organorganization.

I'm betting Duke Tobin's actual GM duties started with the hiring of Taylor and the 2019 draft.

I believe Marvin had a big say in personnel moves but the organization always praised Tobin when things went right. Here’s the problem with this organization they haven’t won a playoff game in 30 years and no one is held accountable because they don’t say who’s in charge. If they wanna keep Tobin I’d set goals for him to hit and if he doesn’t hit them he’s gone. But all the responsibilities and final say are on him. You got a young franchise QB we except you to make the playoffs in year 3 and win a playoff game by year 4 and so on. If not your gone and we’re interviewing other GM candidates.

[BengalsRocker]

(01-02-2021, 08:35 PM)JSR18 Wrote: If the Bengals had the slightest inkling of winning. They would get 2 new coordinators.
Y'all can fight it out about the DC.

As for OC, I want Hue Jackson. Don't give 2 shits what he did in brownieland.

He had the Bengals start off 8-0 and that was with Andy Dalton. If not for a broken thumb, there was a good chance the Bengals get a 1st rd bye and at least make it the AFCCG.

Jackson is an offensive guru who could do Andy Reid shit with Joe Burrow.
The big thing is Jackson knows he's not a HC, he's a coordinator. A coordinator who has more skins than ZT and an OC who WILL call his own plays...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

The thing that really bugs me about Taylor is if they offered a HC job here with an offense minded proven HC/OC going into this years draft would be quite enticing for them.

They'd have all of the connections and pull to assemble a respectable staff.

Instead they're gonna let Zac keep the keys?  Damn it.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-02-2021, 09:28 PM)lone bengal Wrote: I believe Marvin had a big say in personnel moves but the organization always praised Tobin when things went right. Here’s the problem with this organization they haven’t won a playoff game in 30 years and no one is held accountable because they don’t say who’s in charge. If they wanna keep Tobin I’d set goals for him to hit and if he doesn’t hit them he’s gone. But all the responsibilities and final say are on him.  You got a young franchise QB we except you to make the playoffs in year 3 and win a playoff game by year 4 and so on. If not your gone and we’re interviewing other GM candidates.

Agree and that's by design. 

Mike Brown gets to play with his toy and be undercover as the GM.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(01-01-2021, 02:51 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Elise Jesse.....hmmmm, where have I heard that name before??????

Oh yeah, she was the gal that had "Sources" that told her Taylor had lost the locker room....and you guys fell for that. And now she has "sources" telling her there will be major changes to the coaching staff, and you are falling for that.  She's making guesses and making up "sources" in order to have a story to turn in by deadline. She has nothing. 

I have "sources" that tell me the coaching changes will come on the lines, and maybe a TE coach, but that's about it. My sources are really credible, but I can't reveal them. Believe me?

Don't think this post will age well.

(01-01-2021, 03:01 PM)Sled21 Wrote: "Sources".... and I mean real sources, tell me the Bengals are notoriously tight when it comes to leaking what they are going to do. They just don't leak.

This is just a bad take on so many levels.

First, the Bengals do leak. Zac Taylor's appointment was known well before the Super Bowl.

Second, this doesn't have to have come from the Bengals - it could also have come from the coaches, their agents etc

(01-02-2021, 05:14 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: If the master plan is to take Zac Taylor, a coach who has up until now been historically ineffective, and make him better by going over his head by replacing some of his assistants, I want to be the first person on record to say that that is a terrible plan. A crappy HC and poor decision maker is unlikely to suddenly thrive if his boss chops his balls off and starts going over his head. It just signals that deep down the ownership understands that he isn't the guy, but would rather gesture toward admitting the fact than pay the guy not to coach(and maybe fix the problem). If alpha-dog ZT was ineffectual, just wait until you see immasculated, humiliated ZT with chosen assistants. They're just going to keep wasting time on Burrow's rookie deal and will have no one to blame but themselves if they take this route. 

Who says it is going over his head and he hasn't instigated this move?

He's not stupid. He'll have known changes were required - both to improve them team and to sate the fans' thirst for blood/sell tickets.

He has to be a shrewd political operator to be where he is and it is the most basic political operative move to have offered up some of his staff to save his job. I predicted he'd do this months ago.

Look at the timing of this. This has been decided before the end of the season. The coaches have been told to give them more time to try and fix something up. This isn't something that has been imposed on him by Mike Brown, who only decides after the season (famously he's been swayed by the final game of the season on more than one occasion): this is a plan Zac's concocted, possibly alongside Tobin who he works closely with, to get out in front of any ownership decision. The savvy move is to then let the front office take the credit for the move and let the front office appear tough. It's classic good cop, nasty cop.

[Destro]

Curious timing of the news.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2021, 12:42 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Marvin was able to "bring in" a guy with no real NFL coaching experience in Jay Gruden?  He was an offensive assistant under his brother at Tampa Bay and he was so sought after when his brother left Tampa that he became an Arena league OC, and the next year, their HC.   

Zimmer was hired away from a volatile Cowboys DC job to be the DC (lateral move) for Petrino at the Falcons, who promptly quit after 13 games to go coach Arkansas.  The Bengals offered him the DC position the following season.  It wasn't like he was some hot NFL commodity, either.  

The Bengals struck gold with both those coordinators, even though Gruden had very little NFL experience and Zimmer was coming off a job where the ownership didn't ask him back. That had nothing to do with Marvin's respect level.  

BS. Zimmer was an extremely experienced DC, so not sure why the need for snarky air quotes around bring in. He had been a DC for 7 years (2 different teams) when Marvin hired him.

Hue had been an OC for 2 different teams (and even a HC) when Marvin brought him back. These guys probably had some options.

Otoh Taylor hired two guys that had never been higher than position coaches to be his coordinators because that’s literally all he could get.

Marvin was the DC for one of the greatest defenses of all time. He had a ton of respect around the league before he even got here. His resume didn’t consist of a bunch of failures and having lunch with Sean McVay a few times as a position coach.

[Sled21]

(01-02-2021, 08:04 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: This hasn't aged well.  I think there may be more to come as well.  Lots of good defensive coordinators available right now.  It would be stupid to stick with lou.

Shoulda hired callahan when we had the chance...give h assistant hc title and bring him here like now!!

This post aged just fine. Turner being gone was pretty much a given, and I even said both line coaches would get canned IMO. That's a far cry from the wholesale coaching changes she quoted from "sources"

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2021, 02:30 PM)Benton Wrote: Eh, marvin was here longer. He had a lot of bad coordinators. I mean,honestly, his best were zim and jay and those weren't a matter of respect. People were laughing when we hired jay and zim had bounced around some.

There isn't any evidence why we didn't get better coordinators. Your belief is nobody likes zac. And that's ok to think that. My belief is they looked at the roster, saw there wasn't anything to put their reputation on and walked away.

Good players make good coaches.

It’s not about liking him or not, it was that they could see he clearly wasn’t ready to be a HC. It didn’t take Nostradamus to predict that one.

[SuperBowlBound!]

(01-02-2021, 08:53 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: You can sign me up also as an "idiot" that would give Hue a chance.

The guy was a very good coordinator here and respected coach around the league.

I would not want Hue, Marvin, Gruden (either one) or Bienemy as a HC, DC or OC.
I might take Zimmer as a DC but not a HC.

If ZT cannot go at least 8-8 next year I get rid of the whole staff including Tobin.

Start over with a new regime if that would be possible.

Until then go ZT!

[JWW1971]

Some people seem a bit annoyed that Lou hasn't been announced as one of the coaches that is leaving. The 3 mentioned is only the start, does anyone honestly think that we would announce our DC is getting shown the door and then expect him to get the defence to play a good game against the Ravens.
Lou will be gone along with a few more and it will probably be announced on Monday

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(01-02-2021, 10:22 PM)Destro Wrote: Curious timing of the news.

Not for me. They had to wait and wait before they could sign assistants because The Rams didn't lose until the Super Bowl. Now they will have coaches already contacting them as soon as the regular season is over. Plus, the game plans for this week are already in and these coaches will have little impact in walk-throughs and their final game day as a Cincinnati coach.