Oh crap, we need a Center

[Sled21]

(01-06-2021, 01:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Totally different situation.


Burrow had surgery over a month a ago, and the physical demands on a QBs knee is nothing compared to that of a lineman.

That's what I was going to say, not even close to the same thing. And it's not even Burrow's back leg, it is his plant leg.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-06-2021, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why does everyone here keep ignoring all the evidence that he is a solid pass blocker compared to other starting NFL tackles?  Not great but above average at worst.

Judging Hart on one or two plays a game is like judging Burrow just on the one or two bad throws he makes per game.

Every single player has bad plays, bad throws, misses a tackle/block whatever, every game. That's not the point.

The point is he's a 5 or 6 season vet and he still looks totally clueless as to what to do blocking in pass pro wayyyyy to often. I don't buy the it's the scheme messing it up, all the time. At the end of the day instinct/football IQ has to take over. Block somebody for crying out loud !!!! This isn't your 1st game bud.

[fredtoast]

(01-06-2021, 02:13 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The point is he's a 5 or 6 season vet and he still looks totally clueless as to what to do blocking in pass pro wayyyyy to often.

Then so do over half of the starting OTs in the league because Hart allows fewer sacks and pressures than most of them.

I know he has not allowed many sacks this year,  but I don't have any stats on pressures.  But here are his stats from 2019 when everyone was claiming he was total garbage


The PFF "Pass Blocking Efficiency" rating measures pressure allowed on a per-snap basis with weighting toward sacks allowed.

At 50% of max pass blocks (753)
Hart was 28th out of 58 with a 96.7 efficiency

At 80% of max pass blocks (753)
Hart was 10th out of 17


Also there were 64 players that started at least 8 games as an OT in 2019 and played at least 500 snaps. If you look at snaps per (sacks allowed + holding penalties) Hart ranked 13th among those 64. He also ranked 25th in sacks per snap.


https://www.milehighreport.com/2020/2/18/21142328/2019-offensive-line-pass-blocking-review




And, finally, for all of you upset about losing Hopkins and keeping Hopkins, in 2019 Hopkins had more "blown blocks" and allowed more sacks than Bobby Hart according to ProFootballOutsiders.

[Joelist]

Sorry but PFF is not a trustworthy source on rating linemen. We've seen it repeatedly where their rating is almost the opposite of what our eyes tell us.

Now about our OL situation. I would like to see what a real, competent line coach could do with Price as in his first season when he had Pollack before he got hurt the second time he was looking not bad. Alas like a lot of linemen on our team he regressed under Turner. As to Guard both Spain and XSF are competent starters, and indeed when they finally got put in as the Guard starters was when we stopped giving up so much pressure on the inside. That said, we do need to land upgrades in Free Agency for any spot we can get them at. So for example if we landed Thuney and made XSF the backup and dumped MJ I would count that as a plus.

[fredtoast]

(01-06-2021, 04:02 PM)Joelist Wrote: Sorry but PFF is not a trustworthy source on rating linemen

Just to be clear, the numbers I posted (Pass Blocking Efficiency) is not the same as their crazy player rating system.  Instead PBF is based on the objective (supposedly) stats "pass snaps played", "sacks allowed" and "pressures allowed".

[*bfine32*]

BJ blows

[wildcatnku24]

(01-06-2021, 04:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: BJ blows

I see what you did there!

[Essex Johnson]

(01-06-2021, 12:46 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This is a recurring issue.  The same thing happened to “college” Price that happened to “college” Ogbuehi that happened to “college” Jonah Williams that happened to “college” Fisher.

Williams play was fine for a 1st year player.. injuries have hurt him not performance

[SunsetBengal]

(01-06-2021, 01:00 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Several on here talk about Hopkins like he's an All Pro center, he's average at best. It's just that overall our line has been a shit show and an average guy looks all world to us. 

Yes, quite telling as to just how bad the Center previous to Hopkins was, (Not counting injury riddled Price) that just average was such a huge improvement that fans are afraid to be without him.

Honestly, that's on coaching.  They've had a lot of talented OL players float through here, as much as any other NFL team, and yet continue to not develop into strong pros.  One or two flops, that is just bad luck.  Several in succession?  That's a major failure on the part of the coaching staff, and ultimately the team management that allowed the situation to fester so long.

[BengalsFanRealist2855]

I agree that they'll have price and finny battling it out

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(01-06-2021, 05:18 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Williams play was fine for a 1st year player.. injuries have hurt him not performance

You may be right about the injuries to Jonah Williams but I think the definition of "fine" is a bit fuzzy.  It's not just you, Essex, but lots of people on this board says someone played "fine" but I don't know how to quantify or define what "fine" means.  What I think most posters probably mean by "fine" is "adequate." 

If this is the case then yes, Jonah was adequate for a first year player but is "adequate" enough to win championships?  I don't think so; we need spectacular play instead.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-07-2021, 08:42 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: You may be right about the injuries to Jonah Williams but I think the definition of "fine" is a bit fuzzy.  It's not just you, Essex, but lots of people on this board says someone played "fine" but I don't know how to quantify or define what "fine" means.  What I think most posters probably mean by "fine" is "adequate." 

If this is the case then yes, Jonah was adequate for a first year player but is "adequate" enough to win championships?  I don't think so; we need spectacular play instead.

Getting “spectacular play” out of a player in their very first season is pretty rare. Especially at LT. Other than Becton I’d say Jonah looks like one the better young LT’s right now. He graded out higher than the Browns rookie LT, Willis.

And just remember Jonah was saddled with having to play next to Michael Jordan much of the season...

[grampahol]

Bad news since Hopkins already had a broken leg earlier. This will take him longer to return to form. Waiting for that to happen could get Joe hurt again..

[SuperBowlBound!]

Alabama Landon Dickerson is described as a mauler.
He may be available with our 3rd pick.
Another option is to go after Mack from Atlanta Falcons.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-06-2021, 09:50 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I just saw where Trey Hopkins' injury was a torn ACL. That give him less than 8 months of we have Billy Price at Center. Price is a better Center than he is a Guard, but surely we can do better.

Damn, just saw this. Thought we finally had a decent Center in Hop, what are the Center options in FA?

Fraley would make Center a priority I am sure if we hire him being a former Center.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-07-2021, 10:10 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: Alabama Landon Dickerson is described as a mauler.
He may be available with our 3rd pick.
Another option is to go after Mack from Atlanta Falcons.

How bad is Mack's injury? I know he is getting up there in age as well.

Always loved Mack though, just hope he is not washed up and we grab him. We all know how that goes...

[Essex Johnson]

(01-06-2021, 01:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Totally different situation.


Burrow had surgery over a month a ago, and the physical demands on a QBs knee is nothing compared to that of a lineman.

 But did he not have worse damage and I would say the a a lineman can play with more limitations to knee than a QB

[Essex Johnson]

(01-06-2021, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why does everyone here keep ignoring all the evidence that he is a solid pass blocker compared to other starting NFL tackles?  Not great but above average at worst.

Judging Hart on one or two plays a game is like judging Burrow just on the one or two bad throws he makes per game.

Because to those who dislike Hart it does not fit their false narrative that Hart is the worse most overpaid tackle in league

[Essex Johnson]

(01-06-2021, 02:13 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Every single player has bad plays, bad throws, misses a tackle/block whatever, every game. That's not the point.

The point is he's a 5 or 6 season vet and he still looks totally clueless as to what to do blocking in pass pro wayyyyy to often. I don't buy the it's the scheme messing it up, all the time. At the end of the day instinct/football IQ has to take over. Block somebody for crying out loud !!!! This isn't your 1st game bud.

So do other vets, the point is you look at penalties, sacks and pressures and Hart this year performed above the avg at RT.

[*Synric*]

(01-07-2021, 10:10 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: Alabama Landon Dickerson is described as a mauler.
He may be available with our 3rd pick.
Another option is to go after Mack from Atlanta Falcons.

Landon Dickerson also had a late season knee injury it was around the first part of December. He will drop in the draft because he is unlikely go be ready to start the season.

Trey Hill C/OG from Georgia will be there in the 4th or 5th. He isn't the greatest athlete but had good games against competition like Auburn's Derrick Brown. Hill doesnt give up pressure or sacks and creates holes in the running game.