Oh crap, we need a Center

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-06-2021, 10:06 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Yea. It's not a great position to be in to have a huge need at RT, decently large holes at LG and RG (depending on whether you believe XSF and Spain are good enough to start or are simply "not horrifically bad like that Redmond guy") and now have a hole at Center due to injury.

It'll be hard to get a good center to come here in free agency when you tell him that he'll be competing for the starting role once Hopkins comes back from injury in October. So odds are we roll with Price for the first 4 weeks or maybe draft  a guy like Creed Humphrey in the 2nd or 3rd round, if you believe he'll be a center at the NFL level (some people project him as a better guard.)

I think you can have 1 of Hopkins/Spain/XSF starting on an OL and still have a good OL. Once you have 2 of that caliber of player, it gets real tough and not just because then you're 1 injury away from 3 (and thus the majority) of the starters being mediocre or worse players.

They're all guys you'd be okay with having as your 5th best starter, but you can't have a line built out of 5th best starter guys.

Need 3 real upgrades this offseason on the OL if they want it to be good. You have Jonah wherever you put him (though his durability is starting to be a concern) and you can probably live with a competition of XSF/Spain at RG without Hopkins.

Assuming Sewell is off the board, that means Jonah likely stays at LT. So you need legit upgrades at LG, a C, and RT. Probably 2 of those 3 in FA, and the third in the 2nd round.

[RiverRat13]

(01-06-2021, 11:52 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think you can have 1 of Hopkins/Spain/XSF starting on an OL and still have a good OL. Once you have 2 of that caliber of player, it gets real tough and not just because then you're 1 injury away from 3 (and thus the majority) of the starters being mediocre or worse players.

They're all guys you'd be okay with having as your 5th best starter, but you can't have a line built out of 5th best starter guys.

Need 3 real upgrades this offseason on the OL if they want it to be good. You have Jonah wherever you put him (though his durability is starting to be a concern) and you can probably live with a competition of XSF/Spain at RG without Hopkins.

Assuming Sewell is off the board, that means Jonah likely stays at LT. So you need legit upgrades at LG, a C, and RT. Probably 2 of those 3 in FA, and the third in the 2nd round.

Well said.

We've all talked about Thuney, but the better plan may be to throw a ton of money at Corey Linsley, sign a tackle (Moton in my wildest dreams), then take the best guard left at 38. When Hopkins comes back, he can compete with XSF at whatever guard position is left.

[Yojimbo]

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Hopkins-tore-his-ACL

[CJD]

(01-06-2021, 11:52 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think you can have 1 of Hopkins/Spain/XSF starting on an OL and still have a good OL. Once you have 2 of that caliber of player, it gets real tough and not just because then you're 1 injury away from 3 (and thus the majority) of the starters being mediocre or worse players.

They're all guys you'd be okay with having as your 5th best starter, but you can't have a line built out of 5th best starter guys.

Need 3 real upgrades this offseason on the OL if they want it to be good. You have Jonah wherever you put him (though his durability is starting to be a concern) and you can probably live with a competition of XSF/Spain at RG without Hopkins.

Assuming Sewell is off the board, that means Jonah likely stays at LT. So you need legit upgrades at LG, a C, and RT. Probably 2 of those 3 in FA, and the third in the 2nd round.

I have seen some rumblings that the two OTs below Sewell, Rashawn Slater and Christian Darrisaw, may be climbing up draft boards into top 10 territory and, from my perspective, if you're good enough for top 10 I don't know how you wouldn't be good enough for top 5. 

Rashawn Slater has had the better career between the two, but he apparently has measurable issues (similar to what Jonah Williams had, to be honest), so I'm curious to see if Darrisaw can vault him and actually enter the conversation at #5.

Regardless of what the rankings are, we definitely need to upgrade at least 2 positions on the Oline, if not 3 (depending on what happens with Hopkins' recovery). If our day 1 Oline is Darrisaw/Slater - Spain/XSF  - Price - FA pick up (Thuney or Scherff ideally) - Williams, I'd be pretty comfortable with that line and especially comfortable once Hopkins comes back. The Bengals have said they plan to address the Oline in free agency, so I'm really hoping they go big at RG and maybe even RT. We'll have to see how things shake out.

If we address the Oline in free agency, that really opens up our options at #5 and we could pursue a TE like Pitts or a CB like Surtain. Maybe an edge rusher like Kwity Paye rises up the draft boards and enters the conversation as well, especially if we don't re-sign Lawson in free agency.

[Whatever]

(01-06-2021, 10:53 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I don't know what happened to the 'college' Price.

He went to the pro's.  

[fredtoast]

(01-06-2021, 11:52 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think you can have 1 of Hopkins/Spain/XSF starting on an OL and still have a good OL. Once you have 2 of that caliber of player, it gets real tough and not just because then you're 1 injury away from 3 (and thus the majority) of the starters being mediocre or worse players.

They're all guys you'd be okay with having as your 5th best starter, but you can't have a line built out of 5th best starter guys.

I agree that we can get by with one weak starter if we have to, but Hart is not a big weakness.

I assume Finney will be center until Hopkins comes back. Still need a lot help at OG.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-06-2021, 11:59 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I have seen some rumblings that the two OTs below Sewell, Rashawn Slater and Christian Darrisaw, may be climbing up draft boards into top 10 territory and, from my perspective, if you're good enough for top 10 I don't know how you wouldn't be good enough for top 5. 

Rashawn Slater has had the better career between the two, but he apparently has measurable issues (similar to what Jonah Williams had, to be honest), so I'm curious to see if Darrisaw can vault him and actually enter the conversation at #5.

Regardless of what the rankings are, we definitely need to upgrade at least 2 positions on the Oline, if not 3 (depending on what happens with Hopkins' recovery). If our day 1 Oline is Darrisaw/Slater - Spain/XSF  - Price - FA pick up (Thuney or Scherff ideally) - Williams, I'd be pretty comfortable with that line and especially comfortable once Hopkins comes back. The Bengals have said they plan to address the Oline in free agency, so I'm really hoping they go big at RG and maybe even RT. We'll have to see how things shake out.

If we address the Oline in free agency, that really opens up our options at #5 and we could pursue a TE like Pitts or a CB like Surtain. Maybe an edge rusher like Kwity Paye rises up the draft boards and enters the conversation as well, especially if we don't re-sign Lawson in free agency.

I don't think that guys that suddenly climb the board at the end of the season/after the season is over are very safe #5 picks. I don't dislike the Jonah pick, but if they had picked him 5th overall while Chase/Pitts caliber players were there, I would absolutely hate it. I don't know if I see the super high ceiling in him that I would like from a top-5 pick.

Sometimes I feel some of these late climbers are just being thrown into the conversation because the writers have months of time to fill, and simply agreeing that one guy's way better than others isn't particularly time consuming. Limited amount of words that can be written about that.

Also something just doesn't feel right using the 5th overall pick for the 2nd best player at his position when that position isn't QB.

I'll trust the Bengals addressing the OL in FA when they don't sign 1 career backup (XSF) and call it a day.

I'm fairly against using the 5th overall on defense. No matter who you add on defense, it's going to be a trash defense. Lou is going to make doubly sure of that, even if he had all the players he needed. At least if they add more talent on the offense it can help out Burrow, and that's really the key. Score points and put your QB in a position to succeed, that's the path in today's NFL.

[Sled21]

(01-06-2021, 11:35 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Terrible comparison. Finney only makes 3.5 mil next season. And we just became thin at center. He’ll either start or be the backup.

Not comparing players, just pointing out that because someone is under contract does not guarantee anything about them being here. I didn't realize Finney was more than a 1 year deal. Good, we'll likely need him.

[CJD]

(01-06-2021, 12:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I don't think that guys that suddenly climb the board at the end of the season/after the season is over are very safe #5 picks. I don't dislike the Jonah pick, but if they had picked him 5th overall while Chase/Pitts caliber players were there, I would absolutely hate it. I don't know if I see the super high ceiling in him that I would like from a top-5 pick.

Sometimes I feel some of these late climbers are just being thrown into the conversation because the writers have months of time to fill, and simply agreeing that one guy's way better than others isn't particularly time consuming. Limited amount of words that can be written about that.

Also something just doesn't feel right using the 5th overall pick for the 2nd best player at his position when that position isn't QB.

I'll trust the Bengals addressing the OL in FA when they don't sign 1 career backup (XSF) and call it a day.

I'm fairly against using the 5th overall on defense. No matter who you add on defense, it's going to be a trash defense. Lou is going to make doubly sure of that, even if he had all the players he needed. At least if they add more talent on the offense it can help out Burrow, and that's really the key. Score points and put your QB in a position to succeed, that's the path in today's NFL.

In the interest of helping Burrow, I think a good LT/RT (even if we think Darrisaw or Slater will never become elite like Sewell may) would be more beneficial than another WR. Especially if, as you suspect, we address the Oline poorly in free agency. I know that the Burrow - Chase connection can be intoxicating for a lot of fans, but I think we have bigger needs and would prefer we address those with our most premium picks.

If we can trade down (assuming Sewell isn't there), that'd be fantastic. Picking up an early 2nd round pick and maybe 1 other lower round pick to move down 4 or 5 slots and still get either Slater or Darrisaw would be the ideal choice if Sewell is unavailable, in my opinion. There are a lot of players that teams may want to trade up for too, especially if the top 2 are Lawrence and Fields, with Wilson and maybe Lance being the only "elite" QBs remaining on the board from the 3rd pick onwards. Hell, if a team is desperate enough we may even be able to get more first round picks for trading down, which is what Miami did to become a force so quickly in the AFC east.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(01-06-2021, 10:53 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I don't know what happened to the 'college' Price.

This is a recurring issue. The same thing happened to “college” Price that happened to “college” Ogbuehi that happened to “college” Jonah Williams that happened to “college” Fisher.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-06-2021, 11:52 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think you can have 1 of Hopkins/Spain/XSF starting on an OL and still have a good OL. Once you have 2 of that caliber of player, it gets real tough and not just because then you're 1 injury away from 3 (and thus the majority) of the starters being mediocre or worse players.

They're all guys you'd be okay with having as your 5th best starter, but you can't have a line built out of 5th best starter guys.

Need 3 real upgrades this offseason on the OL if they want it to be good. You have Jonah wherever you put him (though his durability is starting to be a concern) and you can probably live with a competition of XSF/Spain at RG without Hopkins.

Assuming Sewell is off the board, that means Jonah likely stays at LT. So you need legit upgrades at LG, a C, and RT. Probably 2 of those 3 in FA, and the third in the 2nd round.

^This^

Several on here talk about Hopkins like he's an All Pro center, he's average at best. It's just that overall our line has been a shit show and an average guy looks all world to us. 

Like the LL says very well you can't have an Oline or any position group for that matter we're they're all 4th/5th beast starters on any normal NFL Oline and that's been our problem. 

We can probably be ok with Spain starting or XSF starting. But like he says we probably need at least 3 upgrades, serious upgrades on our Oline. Two at the very minimum !!

[Sled21]

(01-06-2021, 12:46 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This is a recurring issue.  The same thing happened to “college” Price that happened to “college” Ogbuehi that happened to “college” Jonah Williams that happened to “college” Fisher.

I don't think Williams deserves to be lumped in with those guys.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-06-2021, 12:46 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This is a recurring issue. The same thing happened to “college” Price that happened to “college” Ogbuehi that happened to “college” Jonah Williams that happened to “college” Fisher.

Why the hell are you including Jonah in this group? He was pretty good for the most part in his first season.

[t3r3e3]

(01-06-2021, 11:48 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not overly worried.
The Bengals just need a stopgap until Hopkins is back.
Price is still going to be on the roster, and they have BJ Finney, who they can keep until Hopkins is back.
Michael Jordan also played C at Ohio St, so perhaps they make him the emergency C.

The thing is Hopkins is okay, but nothing special. In other words, he can be upgraded instead of settling for okay. Span and XSF are definitely replaceable, as is Hart. I’d argue in today’s NFL the fastest way to the QB is the interior line, and that the Bengals have the worst interior line in the league. Talent aside, we know this front office’s track record and tendencies, so expect a lower level of investment on the line, with assurances that underperformers are ready to make the leap. A couple draft picks, and 1-2 3rd to 4th tier signings are the most probable outcome.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-06-2021, 09:50 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I just saw where Trey Hopkins' injury was a torn ACL. That give him less than 8 months of we have Billy Price at Center. Price is a better Center than he is a Guard, but surely we can do better.

Well if we are worried about Trey being ready..we better be looking for a QB to start season also...don;t think Burrow will be ready either

[fredtoast]

(01-06-2021, 01:27 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well if we are worried about Trey being ready..we better be looking for a QB to start season also...don;t think Burrow will be ready either

Totally different situation.


Burrow had surgery over a month a ago, and the physical demands on a QBs knee is nothing compared to that of a lineman.

[*pally*]

(01-06-2021, 10:40 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Did Finney even ever see the field this year? I didn't expect him to be back. Maybe they re-sign him just because of this?

He came to town, got COVID, and then injured his abdomen.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-06-2021, 12:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree that we can get by with one weak starter if we have to, but Hart is not a big weakness.

I assume Finney will be center until Hopkins comes back. Still need a lot help at OG.

Fred why are you so determined to keep banging the Hart drum ? He's not that good ! He's a good run blocker but he's not in any way a good pass blocker against any kind of decent rusher. Then add in his 2 to 3 pass plays a game where he has no idea who to block and he's very up gradable.

[*pally*]

(01-06-2021, 01:27 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well if we are worried about Trey being ready..we better be looking for a QB to start season also...don;t think Burrow will be ready either

There will be at least 6 weeks between their surgeries and the need of their positions are different  The average time of return for an offensive lineman according to a 2015 is approximately 11 months.  The torque on a lineman's knee is greater than that of a QB.  The need for a center to push off of his legs and his position in the middle of the line which seriously raises the reinjury risk helps slow the recovery time.  Mid-October is likely the earliest he would be back and that is assuming he had a straight forward knee injury

[fredtoast]

(01-06-2021, 01:41 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Fred why are you so determined to keep banging the Hart drum ? He's not that good ! He's a good run blocker but he's not in any way a good pass blocker against any kind of decent rusher. Then add in his 2 to 3 pass plays a game where he has no idea who to block and he's very up gradable.

Why does everyone here keep ignoring all the evidence that he is a solid pass blocker compared to other starting NFL tackles?  Not great but above average at worst.

Judging Hart on one or two plays a game is like judging Burrow just on the one or two bad throws he makes per game.