TRADE DOWN

[kevin]

Bengals have a TOP PICK. Still, the best O Lineman on the board may be gone.

The Bengals have many needs, many weak areas.

The Bengals never trade down. Under Bill Walsh the 49ers always traded down for more picks, and they WON.

The Bengals biggest Draft mistake ever was not trading down and taking Mike Ditka offer of every Saints pick, plus future 1st rounds. Oh No, we just had to have Akili Smith. So we turned down a later 1 and 6 extra picks plus 2 future 1st rounds. So very weak Bengals had 7 picks instead of 14 plus 2 future Saints #1 picks.

If a team offers a lot to move up, Bengals should take it. Odds are team moving up to take a QB or WR, which Bengals don't need. Bengals need Blocking and Defense. If a team offers a lot to move up, DO IT.

I would love to see Bengals with a later pick in 1, and get more picks in 2 and 3. We need many new players on Blocking and Tackling.

I don't see any Anthony Munoz to take early. I think we can trade down for more top picks and address both Blocking and Defense.

Looking at CBS and ESPN, most of the top picks are QB and WR, so trade down. We need Blocking and Defense that is more late 1 and in 2 and 3. The more 2 and 3 picks, the better on adding Blocking and Tackling.

The Bengals are weak in the trenches. It is NOT touch football. Weak in the trenches means NO WINS. Weak in blocking means Burrow or any other QB gets career injured. Burrow got hit harder more often than any QB in NFL. Some hits he really got popped. This O Line stinks from head to tail. Even Jonah needs to get with it. Bengals need a whole new O Line. Price and Ogbuehi were wasted top picks, the jury still out on Jonah. BENGALS NEED BLOCKING, not a top pick QB or WR.

[winthedey0]

(01-19-2021, 02:42 PM)kevin Wrote: Bengals have a TOP PICK.  Still, the best O Lineman on the board may be gone.  

The Bengals have many needs, many weak areas.

The Bengals never trade down. Under Bill Walsh the 49ers always traded down for more picks, and they WON.

The Bengals biggest Draft mistake ever was not trading down and taking Mike Ditka offer of every Saints pick, plus future 1st rounds. Oh No, we just had to have Akili Smith.  So we turned down a later 1 and 6 extra picks plus 2 future 1st rounds. So very weak Bengals had 7 picks instead of 14 plus 2 future Saints #1 picks.

If a team offers a lot to move up, Bengals should take it. Odds are team moving up to take a QB or WR, which Bengals don't need.  Bengals need Blocking and Defense. If a team offers a lot to move up, DO IT.

I would love to see Bengals with a later pick in 1, and get more picks in 2 and 3.  We need many new players on Blocking and Tackling.

I don't see any Anthony Munoz to take early.  I think we can trade down for more top picks and address both Blocking and Defense.

Looking at CBS and ESPN, most of the top picks are QB and WR, so trade down. We need Blocking and Defense that is more late 1 and in 2 and 3.  The more 2 and 3 picks, the better on adding Blocking and Tackling.

I 100% agree with this. What would be your IDEAL situation? Mid to late first rounder with 2-3 picks in the 2nd-4th?

[yang]

Takes two to tango

In Marvin's first season he traded back in the first round a couple times.

[Goalpost]

What can I say,....i have minimal faith it would be executed to our advantage. Bengals could trade down, then reach, nullifying the top 5 pick they have.

[*bfine32*]

(01-19-2021, 02:42 PM)kevin Wrote: Bengals have a TOP PICK.  Still, the best O Lineman on the board may be gone.  

The Bengals have many needs, many weak areas.

The Bengals never trade down. Under Bill Walsh the 49ers always traded down for more picks, and they WON.

The Bengals biggest Draft mistake ever was not trading down and taking Mike Ditka offer of every Saints pick, plus future 1st rounds. Oh No, we just had to have Akili Smith.  So we turned down a later 1 and 6 extra picks plus 2 future 1st rounds. So very weak Bengals had 7 picks instead of 14 plus 2 future Saints #1 picks.

If a team offers a lot to move up, Bengals should take it. Odds are team moving up to take a QB or WR, which Bengals don't need.  Bengals need Blocking and Defense. If a team offers a lot to move up, DO IT.

I would love to see Bengals with a later pick in 1, and get more picks in 2 and 3.  We need many new players on Blocking and Tackling.

I don't see any Anthony Munoz to take early.  I think we can trade down for more top picks and address both Blocking and Defense.

Looking at CBS and ESPN, most of the top picks are QB and WR, so trade down. We need Blocking and Defense that is more late 1 and in 2 and 3.  The more 2 and 3 picks, the better on adding Blocking and Tackling.

The Bengals are weak in the trenches.  It is NOT touch football.  Weak in the trenches means NO WINS.  Weak in blocking means Burrow or any other QB gets career injured.  Burrow got hit harder more often than any QB in NFL.  Some hits he really got popped. This O Line stinks from head to tail. Even Jonah needs to get with it.  Bengals need a whole new O Line. Price and Ogbuehi were wasted top picks, the jury still out on Jonah. BENGALS NEED BLOCKING, not a top pick QB or WR.

Was it really? Let's look:

Draft Year; 1999


Offer Made: Cincinnati traded its first-round selection (5th) to New Orleans in exchange for New Orleans' first-, third-, fourth-, fifth-, sixth-, and seventh-round selections (12th, 71st, 107th, 144th, 179th, and 218th), as well as New Orleans' 2000 first- and third-round selections (2nd and 64th).

Now if we go strictly by who was drafted in those spots we wind up with:
1999
12- Cade McNown/QB 
71-D’Wayne Bates/WR
107-Nate Stimson/LB
144- Khari Samuel/LB
179- Desmond Clark/TE
218-Billy Miller/TE
2000
2-Lavar Arrington/LB
64-Lloyd Harrison/CB

Of course the only players of note were Desmond Clark  who had a solid 11 year NFL career and LaVarr Arrington. 3 time Pro Bowler in 6 year career.

But what was the bigger mistake that year: Drafting for talent over need. We didn't need a QB, but Aliki showed talent, what we needed was a CB. Boomer and Fulcher urged Mikey to go defense.

So I ask: WHich was the bigger mistake?

Passing up on the trade or waiting until the 2nd to address our need at CB by taking Charles Fisher instead of grabbing Champ Bailey in the first?

[Whatever]

(01-19-2021, 04:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Was it really? Let's look:

Draft Year; 1999


Offer Made: Cincinnati traded its first-round selection (5th) to New Orleans in exchange for New Orleans' first-, third-, fourth-, fifth-, sixth-, and seventh-round selections (12th, 71st, 107th, 144th, 179th, and 218th), as well as New Orleans' 2000 first- and third-round selections (2nd and 64th).

Now if we go strictly by who was drafted in those spots we wind up with:
1999
12- Cade McNown/QB 
71-D’Wayne Bates/WR
107-Nate Stimson/LB
144- Khari Samuel/LB
179- Desmond Clark/TE
218-Billy Miller/TE
2000
2-Lavar Arrington/LB
64-Lloyd Harrison/CB

Of course the only players of note were Desmond Clark  who had a solid 11 year NFL career and LaVarr Arrington. 3 time Pro Bowler in 6 year career.

But what was the bigger mistake that year: Drafting for talent over need. We didn't need a QB, but Aliki showed talent, what we needed was a CB. Boomer and Fulcher urged Mikey to go defense.

So I ask: WHich was the bigger mistake?

Passing up on the trade or waiting until the 2nd to address our need at CB by taking Charles Fisher instead of grabbing Champ Bailey in the first?

Most everyone had Champ Bailey as a better prospect than Akili.  The Bengals needed a QB, though, as Jeff Blake had been benched numerous times the preceding seasons.  It's actually the opposite of what you said.  They went for need instead of taking the slam dunk talent.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-19-2021, 03:39 PM)Goalpost Wrote: What can I say,....i have minimal faith it would be executed to our advantage.  Bengals could trade down, then reach, nullifying the top 5 pick they have.

to some what they might want at #5 would be a reach.. so why not trade down ....

[QueenCity]

If you trade the #5 pick it needs to be for a 10-17 pick and a 2nd rounder. NO excuses.

[HarleyDog]

Trading up or down is always a hindsight 20-20 debacle. If the guy you want is at your selection and you know he wont be there at your next pick, you take him. It's too easy for us to say we drafted this guy, passed on this guy etc, etc. In reality, we never know how players will transition to the pro level.

[Nicomo Cosca]

They just traded back a couple years ago when they took Price. It ended disastrously. The guy they were targeting (Ragnow) is now a Pro Bowler and one of the best young centers in the league, and Price is not even a starter.

I get that extra picks are fun to talk about in draft threads, but people act like there are automatically numerous good offers out there no matter how the board falls. Which is not really true.

If some team wants one of the QB’s and makes us a Godfather offer then jump on it. But I don’t want them to just take anything for the sake of an extra pick. The opportunity to grab a top 5 high end talent doesn’t come around that much (hopefully we’re done picking this high). And those guys can be franchise changing. We do not make the playoffs 5 years straight without AJ Green for example. If they had traded that pick and ended up with some just ok players (or worse some busts) it would have been terrible. I’m glad they stayed put and took a player that would go to 7 straight Pro Bowls.

[Gdale_Bengal]

It’s just so easy to trade! It takes 2 to trade and they need a partner with enough to make it worth sliding back.

What I hope if they are looking to do this is a team loves a QB enough to give up a lot.

But you can’t just assume they can find a partner.

[*Synric*]

(01-19-2021, 07:08 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They just traded back a couple years ago when they took Price. It ended disastrously. The guy they were targeting (Ragnow) is now a Pro Bowler and one of the best young centers in the league, and Price is not even a starter.

I get that extra picks are fun to talk about in draft threads, but people act like there are automatically numerous good offers out there no matter how the board falls. Which is not really true.

If some team wants one of the QB’s and makes us a Godfather offer then jump on it. But I don’t want them to just take anything for the sake of an extra pick. The opportunity to grab a top 5 high end talent doesn’t come around that much (hopefully we’re done picking this high). And those guys can be franchise changing. We do not make the playoffs 5 years straight without AJ Green for example. If they had traded that pick and ended up with some just ok players (or worse some busts) it would have been terrible. I’m glad they stayed put and took a player that would go to 7 straight Pro Bowls.

It was a smart move at the time because they needed a left tackle and a center. It didnt work out but that's hindsight.

If who they are specifically targeting isn't there I wouldnt mind them moving back a few spots to say a QB needy team that wants to spend big to move up.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-19-2021, 07:22 PM)Synric Wrote: It was a smart move at the time because they needed a left tackle and a center. It didnt work out but that's hindsight.

If who they are specifically targeting isn't there I wouldnt mind them moving back a few spots to say a QB needy team that wants to spend big to move up.

All depends how the board falls. If Sewell and Chase are both gone I’d be down to move back a few spots. Out of the top 10? Not so much.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-19-2021, 07:08 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They just traded back a couple years ago when they took Price. It ended disastrously. The guy they were targeting (Ragnow) is now a Pro Bowler and one of the best young centers in the league, and Price is not even a starter.

I get that extra picks are fun to talk about in draft threads, but people act like there are automatically numerous good offers out there no matter how the board falls. Which is not really true.

If some team wants one of the QB’s and makes us a Godfather offer then jump on it. But I don’t want them to just take anything for the sake of an extra pick. The opportunity to grab a top 5 high end talent doesn’t come around that much (hopefully we’re done picking this high). And those guys can be franchise changing. We do not make the playoffs 5 years straight without AJ Green for example. If they had traded that pick and ended up with some just ok players (or worse some busts) it would have been terrible. I’m glad they stayed put and took a player that would go to 7 straight Pro Bowls.

Actually they added Gleen in that trade back, at the time it was praised as an excellent move, getting a top tier tackle and still in position to get one of the top 2 centers in the draft. We act like the center debate was clear then it was not at the time but Ragnow and Price were highly considered lineman, at that time Price was considered one of the top 5 best lineman in OSU history. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-19-2021, 07:51 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Actually they added Gleen in that trade back, at the time it was praised as an excellent move, getting a top tier tackle and still in position to get one of the top 2 centers in the draft. We act like the center debate was clear then it was not at the time but Ragnow and Price were highly considered lineman, at that time Price was considered one of the top 5 best lineman in OSU history. 

Absolutely nothing you just said proves that it wasn’t a bad trade. People can talk about “hindsight” all they want, but there were red flags with Glenn, and there is something to be said for staying put and taking the guy you wanted in the first place. We’d have a Pro Bowl offensive lineman if we had.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-19-2021, 07:22 PM)Synric Wrote: It was a smart move at the time because they needed a left tackle and a center. It didnt work out but that's hindsight.

If who they are specifically targeting isn't there I wouldnt mind them moving back a few spots to say a QB needy team that wants to spend big to move up.

^This, if they can make a deal with that QB needy team, they could perhaps end up with 5 picks in the top 100, as well as a pick for next year.

[Goalpost]

Like I said. Execution bothers me.

We gave up two picks to acquire Finley.

We gave up two picks to acquire Jordan.

We traded back from 42 to 52 two years ago and imo reached for Sample.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-19-2021, 07:55 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Absolutely nothing you just said proves that it wasn’t a bad trade. People can talk about “hindsight” all they want, but there were red flags with Glenn, and there is something to be said for staying put and taking the guy you wanted in the first place. We’d have a Pro Bowl offensive lineman if we had.

You totally left out they acquired a starting tackle and they were mocks that had price as #1 center.. again it was praised by the analysts a solid move to acquire a veteran Tackle rated well and your next starting center.. it did not work but at the time was a good move .. your doing the hindsight not me.. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-19-2021, 08:16 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: You totally left out they acquired a starting tackle and they were mocks that had price as #1 center.. again it was praised by the analysts a solid move to acquire a veteran Tackle rated well and your next starting center.. it did not work but at the time was a good move .. your doing the hindsight not me.. 

The most relevant bit of hindsight is we should have never let Whit go and then we wouldn’t have needed to trade for an injured LT out of desperation.

It all comes down to not trusting this FO.

[*bfine32*]

(01-19-2021, 05:11 PM)Whatever Wrote: Most everyone had Champ Bailey as a better prospect than Akili.  The Bengals needed a QB, though, as Jeff Blake had been benched numerous times the preceding seasons.  It's actually the opposite of what you said.  They went for need instead of taking the slam dunk talent.

Guess we'll just disagree on our memory of the 1999 draft.

I clearly remember it being a constant debate on what order the first 3 QBs would go.

3 other players got drafted between Akili and Champ.

Regardless; it doesn't change the fact that trading back was not the biggest mistake made in that draft.