Chase vs. Sewell

[Hammerstripes]

(02-19-2021, 03:14 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: I was a slump for Sewell guy but I've changed my mind.

This is for several reasons

1. Chase will raise the games of those around him more than Sewell. Being a WR1 he'll let Higgins and Boyd work on opponent's no.2 and 3 CBs, draw safeties away from them etc. Those are two really good players who will be way more productive having Chase on the field than a second or third round receiver.
2. The O-line is a weak link position. You could have 4 all-pro studs but if your fifth O-lineman is a turnstile your QB is getting sacked regularly. It's therefore more important to have solid 4th and 5th lineman than a stud at the top. The O-line needs to be fixed but Sewell alone doesn't fix it.
3. Sewell opted out of this year and doesn't have much experience to fall back on. The same is true of Chase but Burrow's health isn't in the hands of a WR. I'd much rather the main piece to fix the O-line in free agency was a proven player (e.g. a Moton/Thuney/Scherff) than a talented but rusty rookie.

I therefore want Chase but Sewell wouldn't be a bad consolation prize.

I think you could make a stronger case for Kyle Pitts based on what you say here.

1.  The safety help will need to be in the middle of the field with a guy like Pitts.  He's an instant matchup problem for a safety or a linebacker, let along a corner who can''t match his size/

2.  Sewell would go much farther in fixing the line than you think.  IF he's as good as advertised, it significantly limits the extra help needed by a TE or RB on that side.


3.  Sewell started for 2 years.  Most linemen start for 2 years if they come out as a junior.  Experience is non issue for a guy that stepped right into a major program and was immediately the best lineman on his team and possibly the conference.

For me - Sewell, Pitts, Chase (and I'm still not sure Chase is the best WR in the draft)

[Socal Bengals fan]

Sewell all day long , it's shouldn't really a question . Sewell is a big mauler type we have needed for a very long time..

[Whatever]

(02-19-2021, 08:10 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: First you lay out a nice argument , I will take issue though with two things.. Frist Boyd is an established WR and has shown signs of separation and Higgins played well as a rookie  and can only improve  and the part of separation is can also be attributed to lack of time by line for WRs to separate , I think many times it is hard to evaluate, especially since we don;t know the route called or run... so Burrow with a intense rush gets rid of ball way before the intended route..  

Finally As the saying in coaching goes The Kiss Factor.. keep it simple stupid (not a reference to you obviously).. what does that mean here.. we know the line has been bad.. the down fall of the Dalton years can be attributed to a bad line.. lets go 100% fix the line first before we look elsewhere. 

Boyd was tied for 94th among qualifying pass catchers for separation per Next Gen Stats.  Tee didn't even sniff the Top 100.  AJ was tied for dead last.  I like Boyd as much as the next guy, but if you objectively look at the rosters of the two SB teams, he's a #3 WR at best for either.  

As far as the Aggressiveness stat goes, here are the %'s for the qualifying it's from playoff teams.

Trubisky 21.2%
Tannehill 18.7%
Haskins 17.4%
Roethlisberger 17.3%
Rivers 15.8%
Brady 14.8%
Jackson 14.4%
Mayfield 13.8%
Allen 13.1%
Goff 12.7%
Brees 12.3%
Mahomes 11.4%
Rodgers 11.2%
Wilson 11.1%

Burrow 21.5%

Only one team with a QB over 20% made the playoffs.  The highest % to actually win a playoff game was Brady at 14.8%.

Nobody is going to say we should ignore the OL.  However, we can't neglect WR, either.  If you get an opportunity to draft a star caliber player at either position group, you need to pull the trigger.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-19-2021, 01:32 PM)Whatever Wrote: I'm not against drafting Sewell, but there are two realities people are overlooking.  First, no OL can block forever.  Second, the defense can always choose to send more guys than you can block.  

How many extra hits and sacks did Burrow take trying to buy time because he didn't have anyone open?  A bunch.  Putting better weapons around him so he can get the ball out on time is helping to protect him.  Having deep threats that back the defense out of blitzing so much is protecting him.

The "Burrow doesn't need weapons" argument is fine if you don't want to actually win games. One of the most interesting Next Gen stats for QB's is Aggressiveness %, which is basically the % of throws to targets with a defender within a yard of them. Joe was 2nd in the league in this category at over 22%.  This means almost a quarter of his throws are to well covered targets.  By comparison, Patrick Mahommes is down around 11%.  In case anyone wants to argue that it's just Joe trying to force it in to make plays, Brandon Allen was 7th with an over 19% score. Our guys don't get open and you aren't winning a bunch of games with your QB trying to thread the needle again and again to covered receivers.

Well, hard to disagree with any of this. Nice post.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(02-19-2021, 08:41 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I think you could make a stronger case for Kyle Pitts based on what you say here.

1.  The safety help will need to be in the middle of the field with a guy like Pitts.  He's an instant matchup problem for a safety or a linebacker, let along a corner who can''t match his size/

2.  Sewell would go much farther in fixing the line than you think.  IF he's as good as advertised, it significantly limits the extra help needed by a TE or RB on that side.


3.  Sewell started for 2 years.  Most linemen start for 2 years if they come out as a junior.  Experience is non issue for a guy that stepped right into a major program and was immediately the best lineman on his team and possibly the conference.

For me - Sewell, Pitts, Chase (and I'm still not sure Chase is the best WR in the draft)

Pitts is a match-up challenge and is also likely to attract double coverage but he doesn't help the other WRs in the way Chase does by giving them better individual match-ups.

Sewell would be replacing Bobby Hart but the problem last year wasn't actually Bobby Hart. The problem was the interior of the line. Maybe Thuney solves one of those spots but Hart's had a better PFF grade each of the last two seasons than Spain who'd presumably be the other guard. He had a better PFF grade last year than both center candidates Hopkins and Price, as well as the other guard options like XSF and Jordan. It doesn't matter if you have two all pro tackles if your guard and center get blown up down the middle.

Sewell won't have played for nearly 2 years. He probably won't get a proper training camp. He's never played in the NFL. Rust is going to be an issue. Experience is going to be an issue. The idea that he isn't going to make rookie mistakes is fanciful.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Chase is a bad, bad man...

wasn’t expecting to see DeVonta Smith have the same calves as Justin Jefferson

(Chase built like a RB) pic.twitter.com/G1V77XfE9R

— Nate Tice (@Nate_Tice) February 22, 2021

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-23-2021, 12:42 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Chase is a bad, bad man...

wasn’t expecting to see DeVonta Smith have the same calves as Justin Jefferson

(Chase built like a RB) pic.twitter.com/G1V77XfE9R

— Nate Tice (@Nate_Tice) February 22, 2021

Yeah, give me the WR on the right...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-23-2021, 06:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, give me the WR on the right...

He looks like a mini DK Metcalf. No wonder he does so well against the press.

[yang]

1.Chase is a generational type WR prospect and given the history with JoeyB this is a no brainer and I pray this happens.

2. Sewell.

3. Trade back and take other WR

[samhain]

The Chase hype seems to be getting cranked up lately. Hearing national media guys talk about him definitely makes him seem enticing. Not sure if it's real or just due to no more football being played.

One thing I def like about him is his build. He looks like a player that can play vs grown men in the NFL, and he's still very young. It reminds me of Tyreek a bit. Tyreek is a speed guy, but he's also pretty jacked for a player with that skill set. Like some have said, he almost has a RB's build at WR (Chase).

I'm starting to think he might go before we get a chance to draft him. The hype is only going to grow in the weeks leading up to the draft.

[SunsetBengal]

Thought that I'd bump this thread, to illustrate a point. Yesterday, someone created an almost identical thread with poll question of Sewell or Chase. As most of you are aware, we staff typically merge these similar threads on the same topic, in an effort to reduce clutter and overall redundancy.

However, I decided to allow this one to stand for a while, and see if 3-4 weeks, and a flurry of free agent activity might have changed some people's minds. As it turns out, the overwhelming majority of Bengal fans prefer that the team draft LT Penei Sewel over WR Jamar Chase, and it's not ever close, it's like 85% of fans responding.

Can we now take the notion that the Bengals "need" a top rated pass catcher at pick #5, and simply lay it to rest? I'd say that the overwhelming results of not one, but two polls indicate that the vast majority of fans feel that building the OL and protecting Joe Burrow is and should be the team's highest priority in the upcoming draft.

[Essex Johnson]

(03-21-2021, 06:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Thought that I'd bump this thread, to illustrate a point.  Yesterday, someone created an almost identical thread with poll question of Sewell or Chase.  As most of you are aware, we staff typically merge these similar threads on the same topic, in an effort to reduce clutter and overall redundancy.

However, I decided to allow this one to stand for a while, and see if 3-4 weeks, and a flurry of free agent activity might have changed some people's minds.  As it turns out, the overwhelming majority of Bengal fans prefer that the team draft LT Penei Sewel over WR Jamar Chase, and it's not ever close, it's like 85% of fans responding.

Can we now take the notion that the Bengals "need" a top rated pass catcher at pick #5, and simply lay it to rest?  I'd say that the overwhelming results of not one, but two polls indicate that the vast majority of fans feel that building the OL and protecting Joe Burrow is and should be the team's highest priority in the upcoming draft.  

Well I know we are just fans and not professional coaches, scouts etc but I do hope our gut is the Bengals front office and coaches gut too.. pick Sewell and im think more of those in the poll would say pick Slater if Sewell is gone over Chase also. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-21-2021, 08:43 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well I know we are just fans and not professional coaches, scouts etc but I do hope our gut is the Bengals front office and coaches gut too.. pick Sewell and im think more of those in the poll would say pick Slater if Sewell is gone over Chase also. 

That would actually be a more interesting pole honestly.

[QueenCity]

I don't think you can go wrong with either player.

You don't need an absolute perfect line for Burrow as he hopefully is still mobile enough to avoid pressure.

Gun to head I'd still take Sewell considering we haven't done enough in FA on the line... sign Turner though I think you can punt it 1 more year.

[Gdale_Bengal]

Well, adding Reiff complicates things doesn’t it.

You kinda need to start Sewell if drafted. Funny thing is, he would be a better guard than tackle right now as he needs core strength and feet work and skill refinement.

You’re going to prolly start Chase as he’s better than the rest of the receivers outside Boyd and Higgins.

You can’t go wrong with either

[IcoHolic]

My uneducated opinion changes post to post. Chase, Sewell, Pitts.... #5 really is an intriguing place to be this year.

[NATI BENGALS]

(03-21-2021, 06:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Thought that I'd bump this thread, to illustrate a point. Yesterday, someone created an almost identical thread with poll question of Sewell or Chase. As most of you are aware, we staff typically merge these similar threads on the same topic, in an effort to reduce clutter and overall redundancy.

However, I decided to allow this one to stand for a while, and see if 3-4 weeks, and a flurry of free agent activity might have changed some people's minds. As it turns out, the overwhelming majority of Bengal fans prefer that the team draft LT Penei Sewel over WR Jamar Chase, and it's not ever close, it's like 85% of fans responding.

Can we now take the notion that the Bengals "need" a top rated pass catcher at pick #5, and simply lay it to rest? I'd say that the overwhelming results of not one, but two polls indicate that the vast majority of fans feel that building the OL and protecting Joe Burrow is and should be the team's highest priority in the upcoming draft.

Right now I’m convinced it will be one of Chase, Smith, or Pitts. We lost AJ, Erickson, Ross, and Carter in free agency.

We draft for need

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-21-2021, 09:42 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Well, adding Reiff complicates things doesn’t it.

You kinda need to start Sewell if drafted. Funny thing is, he would be a better guard than tackle right now as he needs core strength and feet work and skill refinement.

You’re going to prolly start Chase as he’s better than the rest of the receivers outside Boyd and Higgins.

You can’t go wrong with either

I think we still take Sewell if he is there and it is the right choice. But if he isn't there the Reiff signing sure makes taking a 
Receiver much easier at 5. I say Pitts or Chase if Sewell isn't there or trade back and take Darrisaw, Waddle or Slater...

[EatonFan]

Pitts