Housh gets it

[SadFaceBengal15]

(02-20-2021, 10:18 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Housh should've stayed with the team but didn't realize his success hinged on having  true #1 WR to draw the defense.

The Seattle fans and sports media ate him alive for not being "the guy".



AJ Green is a shell of his old self but still called for attention.

I can pretty much guarantee that players like Chase & Pitts will immediately get the draw in an opposition's D game planning coverage.

It sure would be damn nice not to have such a huge drop off from Boyd and Higgins or to have a legit TE to keep LBers from pinning their ears back.

Wouldn’t it be better to have ur franchise QB upright not destroyed and protected. All those tight ends and receivers u speak of that u want loldon’t stand a chance if ur qb is dead like ours is right now cuz we didn’t invest in protection and make the offensive line a priority. I think with Burrow in the current physical condition he’s in it’s laughable to think of anything else other than offensive lineman first and foremost. Man some of u peeps make me scratch my head.

[GreenCornBengal]

(02-20-2021, 10:55 AM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Wouldn’t it be better to have ur franchise QB upright not destroyed and protected. All those tight ends and receivers u speak of that u want loldon’t stand a chance if ur qb is dead like ours is right now cuz we didn’t invest in protection and make the offensive line a priority. I think with Burrow in the current physical condition he’s in it’s laughable to think of anything else other than offensive lineman first and foremost. Man some of u peeps make me scratch my head.

I forgot Joe Burrow died... we should be drafting a QB...

[BengalsRocker]

(02-20-2021, 10:55 AM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Wouldn’t it be better to have ur franchise QB upright not destroyed and protected.  All those tight ends and receivers u speak of that u want loldon’t stand a chance  if ur qb is dead like ours is right now cuz we didn’t invest in protection and make the offensive line a priority.  I think with Burrow in the current physical condition he’s in it’s laughable to think of anything else other than offensive lineman first and foremost.  Man some of u peeps make me scratch my head.

Oh don't get me wrong.

I've been bitching about the lack of talent and whiffs on our O-Line for years.

As we've seen before.  Just because they draft O-Line doesn't equal success.

Hell they even traded for Glenn who was supposed to be our savior or proof that Bengals were doing the right thing.

If it's one damn thing I'd like to see this team do right is not only pick good O-Linemen but to retain them once developed.

I just don't have the confidence in a guy who could quite possibly be Ogbuehi part II.

Chase screams pure talent and value to me draft-wise as a whole than Sewell.

That division and lack of defense from opposition is what worries me compounded with past Bengals selections.

I think most hope that FA would yield better proven NFL options.... but that hope might be quickly dashed by teams retaining, tagging, or the FAs desire to play for teams other than the Bengals.

[Essex Johnson]

(02-20-2021, 10:55 AM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Wouldn’t it be better to have ur franchise QB upright not destroyed and protected.  All those tight ends and receivers u speak of that u want loldon’t stand a chance  if ur qb is dead like ours is right now cuz we didn’t invest in protection and make the offensive line a priority.  I think with Burrow in the current physical condition he’s in it’s laughable to think of anything else other than offensive lineman first and foremost.  Man some of u peeps make me scratch my head.

I understand the idea to give him more weapons and i also understand that QBs have to perform under pressure and out of the pocket but the Oline is the #1 priority and really i don;t see WR as #2 priority anyway so fix the Oline first than address Dline/CB next most likely.  It is not going to be easy to acquire two starters in FA,, what I hope we can do is acquire at least one starter for Oline and a veteran WR to give us more options and then take those early picks and hit Oline and Defense. 

[Essex Johnson]

(02-20-2021, 11:08 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Oh don't get me wrong.

I've been bitching about the lack of talent and whiffs on our O-Line for years.

As we've seen before.  Just because they draft O-Line doesn't equal success.

Hell they even traded for Glenn who was supposed to be our savior or proof that Bengals were doing the right thing.

If it's one damn thing I'd like to see this team do right is not only pick good O-Linemen but to retain them once developed.

I just don't have the confidence in a guy who could quite possibly be Ogbuehi part II.

Chase screams pure talent and value to me draft-wise as a whole than Sewell.

That division and lack of defense from opposition is what worries me compounded with past Bengals selections.

I think most hope that FA would yield better proven NFL options.... but that hope might be quickly dashed by teams retaining, tagging, or the FAs desire to play for teams other than the Bengals.

Just because the team has not succeeded in drafting Oline does not mean you stop trying.. and we also know we have had a big whiff recent at WR in top 10.. and if we are going to go by how we have drafted.. where is it we found are two best WRs.. both in 2nd round.. 

The need at Oline is too great not to draft them...

[BengalsRocker]

(02-20-2021, 11:13 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Just because the team has not succeeded in drafting Oline does not mean you stop trying.. and we also know we have had a big whiff recent at WR in top 10.. and if we are going to go by how we have drafted.. where is it we found are two best WRs.. both in 2nd round.. 

The need at Oline is too great not to draft them...

Nobody forgot about the reach that was Ross.

Who is to say that Chase could not be better than Boyd or Higgins?

I think he could be our WR #1.

[schroomytunes]

For me a perfect world would be this: 1-4

FA:

1) Matt Feiler-RG
2) Daryl Williams-RT

Draft: w trade back(Carolina)

1(8) Kyle Pitts-TE (Florida)- opens up the offense

2) Greg Newsome-CB (Northwestern)- replacement in secondary

3) Rashad Weaver-Edge (PITT)- adds to rotational depth

3)(73) Nico Collins-WR (Michigan) - good outside reciever, should keep defense's honest

4) Aaron Banks-OG (ND)- solid depth at position of need

[Bengalitis]

Tate Higgins Boyd, STOP going for WRs...

BEEF UP THE D. Once you fix the Defense, the Offense will click. We've been trying to fix the offense since Andy came to play. Besides, Burrow loves coach, we'll give Burrow the benefit of the doubt... ha!

[WeezyBengal]

(02-20-2021, 01:49 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This. If they take care of business in FA it will open up the draft board to go BPA. Reaching for need is not the way to go.

I don't want to necessarily draft a WR with our first pick this year, but I have to agree with the "reaching" for a team need thing. We've done this the past few years and it has just not worked out. 

[samhain]

One thing that's changed about the NFL in the last 5 years or so is the ability to find productive receivers in rounds 2-4. It's just not as hard to get guys that can play at the NFL level at that position anymore. Look around college football. Even mid-majors and lesser D-1 teams have legit talents that will likely be drafted relatively early and have a shot to play in the league. It didn't used to work that way. The 3-year rule for WRs adjusting to the league is largely a thing of the past, as kids get drafted and are plugged in right away all the time now.

League rules regarding what DBs can do also make the transition much easier. They just don't face the same next-level physicality after the initial bump at the line, and receivers rarely get penalized for interference. DBs lose almost every time when things get physical in terms of flags. There's also no head-hunting over the middle like there once was, so kids don't have to worry about getting decapitated on tough catches nearly as much. Not to say they never take a shot, but it's not open season like it once was, and a kid with decent hands has a much better chance of making a living over the middle if he's not a burner or 6-3 or 5 freak that can fly.

Also, there's capable talent in free agency this year that can help and won't break the bank. More will be cut. Desean Jackson is old, but as a number 3 compliment for 5 mil year, it's worth considering. Emmanuel Sanders will likely be available, and that guy is as reliable as they come and also not likely to command a lot of money. Tyrell Williams and John Brown would both be great outside threats to compliment Boyd and Higgins, and both are likely very affordable. Edelman is another who could help. Burrow's strength is making gnat-hair tight intermediate throws, and a guy like Edelman that made a career of coming up with tough catches would be helpful if healthy.

You know what's not easy to find in FA or the draft? Good OL that fit the modern offense The league is packed to the gills with awful lines because the college game has so few programs that even pretend to want to run the ball anymore. You used to be able to get some fat guy in the 3rd and make him a RT for the next ten years, no problem. Not anymore. NFL edge rushers destroy those guys and the OTs athletic enough to deal with the werewolves at DE these days often don't have the strength to be the road graders in the run game that we used to see on the right side.

In short, I agree with TJ. If you have a shot at a guy that's athletic, relentless, and huge, like Sewell, you take him at 5 over a WR all day long. You'll have an advantage over half of the league just having a guy like that on your roster if he pans out. Receivers are plentiful and affordable. Tackles and to a large extent guards are not.

[spazz70]

I just have to laugh...I saw two reoccurring quotes/themes in this post..."we need a deep threat to open up the offense and Mixon in the running game" These are ridiculous statements...A deep threat is negated if your QB does not have time to throw it deep!! If you have any doubts about this just go and look at the play our franchise QB got hurt....After watching that you should want nothing but OL, OL, OL....whether it be FA or the draft...OL opens up the running game...OL opens up for WRs to get open down field because they have to stack the box against the running game...Also, you wanna open it up downfield? Run jet sweeps, run bubble screens, run quick one on one outs.....Do we need a speedy WR to help with this? Yes...Do we need an upgrade at TE? Yes BUT neither at pick 5

[SadFaceBengal15]

(02-20-2021, 11:38 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I don't want to necessarily draft a WR with our first pick this year, but I have to agree with the "reaching" for a team need thing. We've done this the past few years and it has just not worked out. 

2 things are certain for me this year
1. Don’t draft a damn wr in the first 3 rounds
2. Don’t reach for a player.

So if Sewell isn’t there trade back collect more picks and draft the best available tackle with ur first pick. Imo darrisaw Jenkins Vera tucker slater and leatherwood are all worthy of first round selections and anyone of t immediately upgrade our offensive line. So that’s exactly what u do in round 1. Or trade back in 1 then take jaelen Phillips to take care of pass rush and then take which one of the above tackles falls to our second pick which could very well happen.

Also if u want a wr so bad imo it’s a no brained to rush to the podium in the 4th for Dwayne eskridge. He’s my favorite wr in this draft top to bottom

[Big Boss]

They'd have to seriously address o-line in free agency to get me off Sewell at #5 (if he's there). And I mean really address it. I'm talking top tier free agents, not this bottom-of-the-barrel, last-players-standing bullshit.

They sign Thuney and a competent right tackle? Fine, draft a playmaker at #5. Otherwise, if Sewell is still there at #5 you are already walking to the podium.

[Essex Johnson]

(02-20-2021, 11:16 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Nobody forgot about the reach that was Ross.

Who is to say that Chase could not be better than Boyd or Higgins?

I think he could be our WR #1.

maybe he could be.. I would say just as good or better chance that signing one of the top tackles will become our #1 tackle

[Essex Johnson]

(02-20-2021, 01:49 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This. If they take care of business in FA it will open up the draft board to go BPA. Reaching for need is not the way to go.

First BPA and need can work together, if you have a player maybe 3rd on your BPA list but is 1st in your need list.. i could see the Bengals taking them... hard to define reach since we don;t know the Bengals board or what really is reach.. taking a pick a 3 to say 7 spots above projection I don;t see that as a reach.. taking a clear 2nd round pick middle of 1st round.. yes that is a reach

[Frank Booth]

if Sewell is there, you take him. I know how people want a legit 3 with speed,

but the running game is important. Sewell improves that. Which in turn, improves the passing game

[Murdock2420]

(02-20-2021, 11:16 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Nobody forgot about the reach that was Ross.

Who is to say that Chase could not be better than Boyd or Higgins?

I think he could be our WR #1.

Chase over Boyd and Higgins

versus 

Sewell or Darrisaw over Bobby Hart.


There is no contest about what is the bigger upgrade.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-19-2021, 09:05 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: T.J. Houshmandzadeh did an interview with Tyler Dragon and explained how the team should be building around Burrow.

And to those who want to draft Pitts or Chase or anyone that isn't an offensive lineman... you aren't going to like it.

“The Bengals need to focus on keeping (Joe Burrow) protected. They shouldn’t sign or draft any skill players. It should be offensive linemen in the draft (and) offensive linemen in free agency, because you can find a receiver in the third, fourth or fifth round. If the protection is there, Joe is gonna get you the ball.”

The man knows football and as a former 7th round pick, he is a perfect example of why you can't waste the 1st rounder on a skill position when you don't have 5 great starters on the O-line. Sewell, Slater or Darrisaw, one of them will be there at 5 and one of them needs to be the pick.

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/19/tj-houshmandzadeh-reveals-bengals-build-around-joe-burrow/

Well he definitely isn't wrong. I would love to get either Sewell or Darrisaw at 5. Slater concerns me though strength wise.

I still would take Pitts in an instant especially if we signed say Daryl Williams and Alex Mack in FA.

Also need to beef up the DL and get pass rushers.

[Whatever]

(02-20-2021, 04:54 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Chase over Boyd and Higgins

versus 

Sewell or Darrisaw over Bobby Hart.


There is no contest about what is the bigger upgrade.

The first T off the board last year was Andrew Thomas.  He allowed 10 sacks, took 3 penalties, and had a 62.4 PFF grade.

The second T off the board was Jedrick Wills.  He allowed 4 sacks, took 11 penalties, and had a 61.5 PFF grade.

The third T off the board was Mekhi Becton.  He allowed 7 sacks, took 7 penalties, and had a 74.4 PFF grade.

The fourth T off the board was Tristan Wirfs.  He allowed 1 sack, took 3 penalties, and had an 82.2 PFF grade.

The 5th T off the board was Austin Jackson.  He allowed 4 sacks, took 5 penalties, and had a 52.4 PFF grade.

Last year, Bobby Hart allowed 4 sacks, took 3 penalties, and had a 66.3 PFF grade.  

Where's this dramatic upgrade?  Only one of the five gave up fewer sacks than Hart and only two graded better.

If anyone is expecting Sewell or any other T to come in as a rookie and be a major upgrade over Hart, they simply aren't being realistic.  That's a long term move that will probably pay dividends in a few years, which is fine, but it's not a "We need a T at 5 because we need to fix the OL for next year," move.

Secondly, it's not Chase vs Tee and Boyd.  It's Chase vs Auden Tate.  You aren't putting Tee or Boyd on the bench if you take Chase.  Last year, Boyd, Tee, and AJ had 110, 108, and 104 Targets respectively.  The #3 WR sees the same amount of passes as the #1 and #2.  It is not some tertiary position you can just throw some 4th round rookie or C tier FA into and run your offense just fine because you don't throw to them that much.

[Murdock2420]

(02-21-2021, 01:46 AM)Whatever Wrote: The first T off the board last year was Andrew Thomas.  He allowed 10 sacks, took 3 penalties, and had a 62.4 PFF grade.

The second T off the board was Jedrick Wills.  He allowed 4 sacks, took 11 penalties, and had a 61.5 PFF grade.

The third T off the board was Mekhi Becton.  He allowed 7 sacks, took 7 penalties, and had a 74.4 PFF grade.

The fourth T off the board was Tristan Wirfs.  He allowed 1 sack, took 3 penalties, and had an 82.2 PFF grade.

The 5th T off the board was Austin Jackson.  He allowed 4 sacks, took 5 penalties, and had a 52.4 PFF grade.

Last year, Bobby Hart allowed 4 sacks, took 3 penalties, and had a 66.3 PFF grade.  

Where's this dramatic upgrade?  Only one of the five gave up fewer sacks than Hart and only two graded better.

If anyone is expecting Sewell or any other T to come in as a rookie and be a major upgrade over Hart, they simply aren't being realistic.  That's a long term move that will probably pay dividends in a few years, which is fine, but it's not a "We need a T at 5 because we need to fix the OL for next year," move.

Secondly, it's not Chase vs Tee and Boyd.  It's Chase vs Auden Tate.  You aren't putting Tee or Boyd on the bench if you take Chase.  Last year, Boyd, Tee, and AJ had 110, 108, and 104 Targets respectively.  The #3 WR sees the same amount of passes as the #1 and #2.  It is not some tertiary position you can just throw some 4th round rookie or C tier FA into and run your offense just fine because you don't throw to them that much.

Look around the free agency piles out there right now.

What is easier to find, a starting #3 WR that can outproduce Tate or a starting Tackle that can keep Burrow safe? 

Answer... plenty of high quality options at WR and zero real options at tackle.

Draft O-line, go get a #3 in free agency or later in the draft.

There is no excuse to use the first round on a skill position when your QB is constantly under siege and coming off rehab.

As to the pressures allowed. I would be willing to take a bet that Sewell will give up less sacks next season then Bobby Hart no matter what teams they are on.