Florio: 'Bengals care about money, not championships'

[NATI BENGALS]

What’s the max sentence for an assault charge?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-26-2021, 07:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I think this line of thinking works better when discussing a league without a salary cap.  The Bengals aren't exactly in the same position as the Pittsburgh Pirates, for example.  With that being said, Mike Brown should theoretically have a nice sum of money put away to hire a lot of people since he's gone without hiring a GM for 30+ years, for example.

That's the issue with the Bengals.  Don't need to hire a GM because I'm the GM.  Hey, should I spend this three million bucks I save every year on more scouts?  Nah.

He was (is?) paying himself $1m/yr bonus to be GM of the Bengals.

[samhain]

(02-26-2021, 07:00 PM)Synric Wrote: Right or Wrong doesn't matter if it comes from Florio it is just a a way for him to attack the Bengals franchise.

Agree.  While the losing has not ended, the spending habits changed drastically last year.  When I see Florio say this, I feel like he's getting his cheap shots in while he can.  I think there's a good chance that the Bengals are very active in outside free agency again this year.

[BFritz21]

He'd be correct if he changed "Bengals" to "Mike Brown" because I think everyone in the organization, besides for Mike Brown, cares more about championships than they do about money.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-26-2021, 08:15 PM)samhain Wrote: Agree.  While the losing has not ended, the spending habits changed drastically last year.  When I see Florio say this, I feel like he's getting his cheap shots in while he can.  I think there's a good chance that the Bengals are very active in outside free agency again this year.

Problem is, if you have the smallest scouting group in the league (Pro Scouting Director, College Scouting Director, and 2 Scouts) and you refuse to hire a GM, you're not really spending properly. Just because you throw a 3 year contract at Bobby Hart doesn't mean it was money well spent.

They have 11 people listed as directors/executives/managers for season tickets.
They have 4 people to scout pro and college football players/teams.

[samhain]

(02-26-2021, 11:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Problem is, if you have the smallest scouting group in the league (Pro Scouting Director, College Scouting Director, and 2 Scouts) and you refuse to hire a GM, you're not really spending properly. Just because you throw a 3 year contract at Bobby Hart doesn't mean it was money well spent.

They have 11 people listed as directors/executives/managers for season tickets.
They have 4 people to scout pro and college football players/teams.

You're not wrong, but as a longtime hater of the family, I see recent changes in behavior as not just significant, but seismic.  If they can change their FA approach, then scouting can change, too.  It's baby steps, but perspective-wise it's giant steps.  I'm willing to suspend my hating for their willingness to try a different way.  They know they have to change to get out of the hole they've been digging, and that's obvious over the last two years.  You really can't say that about any point in time since Paul died.  

Bottom line: I've never seen them act like they are acting now, and I'm suspending pessimism.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-27-2021, 12:11 AM)samhain Wrote: You're not wrong, but as a longtime hater of the family, I see recent changes in behavior as not just significant, but seismic.  If they can change their FA approach, then scouting can change, too.  It's baby steps, but perspective-wise it's giant steps.  I'm willing to suspend my hating for their willingness to try a different way.  They know they have to change to get out of the hole they've been digging, and that's obvious over the last two years.  You really can't say that about any point in time since Paul died.  

Bottom line: I've never seen them act like they are acting now, and I'm suspending pessimism.

Need it to happen at least twice in order to call it a trend. Right now it's just a single data point last offseason. A single data point where they looked at their OL and was like "yup, this is fine, just swap XSF and John Miller and throw our rookie 1st overall pick QB back there."

I would love for them to go out and get 2 top tier FA OL to go with Sewell, but I am not holding my breath on it. I would gladly be proven wrong, though.

[samhain]

(02-27-2021, 12:17 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Need it to happen at least twice in order to call it a trend. Right now it's just a single data point last offseason. A single data point where they looked at their OL and was like "yup, this is fine, just swap XSF and John Miller and throw our rookie 1st overall pick QB back there."

I would love for them to go out and get 2 top tier FA OL to go with Sewell, but I am not holding my breath on it. I would gladly be proven wrong, though.

I think it will happen.  Burrow has put them in a position to prove that they aren't what the media says they are.  If they screw up his career, it's over.  This is life and death for them and they know it.  People will abandon them if they do not figure it out.  Against all logic, I feel like they will do what they need to do to protect him after what happened last year, and that means spending on OL in free agency.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-27-2021, 12:22 AM)samhain Wrote: I think it will happen.  Burrow has put them in a position to prove that they aren't what the media says they are.  If they screw up his career, it's over.  This is life and death for them and they know it.  People will abandon them if they do not figure it out.  Against all logic, I feel like they will do what they need to do to protect him after what happened last year, and that means spending on OL in free agency.

This makes me think you weren't around for Carson Palmer.

Also a Heisman winning 1st overall pick. Bengals Bangal'd.

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-26-2021, 03:31 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I disagree with the statement that the Bengals just pocket the unused cap.
They stocked up a good amount of cap back about 10 years ago and basically have rolled it over year after year.
They could make the decision not to roll any or just part of the unused cap to next year, but they roll it all over.
By doing this, they've spent at or very close to the regular cap number every year.

The real issue is they don't always use their cap wisely. They sign mediocre players to inflated deals a good amount of time, and they are hesitant to cut bait with a declining/bad player until they have very little dead cap remaining. As such, some players stay longer than they should.

Right 

[samhain]

(02-27-2021, 12:45 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: This makes me think you weren't around for Carson Palmer.

Also a Heisman winning 1st overall pick. Bengals Bangal'd.

Did they really, though?  He was a pretty outstanding quarterback for several years and to ignore the fact that the team became relevant during his time here is disingenuous.  He left when they wouldn't let him have a bigger say in personnel decisions.  What happened after that?  They basically did all the things he was asking for and became a solid franchise for 5 seasons.  

I'm not anti-Carson, but did he go on to win Super Bowls after we "Bungled" his career?  How many qbs had better OL or weapons than Carson did in his best years here?  1 or 2 maybe?  

It's pure conjecture to think he'd have had any more success if he were drafted by another team.  Given the trajectory of most first round quarterbacks, he probably fared above average here.  His injuries could have happened anywhere (and did again in Arizona).  The o-lne at the time of the knee injury was one of the best in the NFL.  

[Luvnit2]

It is simple for others like the moron writer who hates the Bengals to attempt to spend other people's money.

It is easy to jump on the chest of a franchise laying on the ground battered and bruised. We have non business people trashing a business they have no experience running. What business has Florio run?

I think it is comical how many get their blood pressure up over things they have zero control, never learn just rinse and repeat their actions. Yet, they want us to believe they have the answers and credibility to run an NFL team. Or just live in half empty mode and look for ways to vent.

I don't agree with the lack of an all in mentality Bengals did not show when we had a great roster and adding the right piece or 2 gives us a shot at winning not only a playoff game, but it all. But, the Bengals play their players, sign a lot to second contracts so not sure player spending is a great argument to add so they are cheap.

In the end, every fan wants a winner. The cheap label comes from losing. The Browns had huge amounts of salary cap money unspent the past few years, yet noone called them cheap. Life goes on, I can't control the actions taken by the Bengals to bring home a winner, so my blood pressure is great as I simply refuse to let it upset me.

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-26-2021, 08:15 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He was (is?) paying himself $1m/yr bonus to be GM of the Bengals.

I never quite understood this.  Maybe we have a resident CPA on the board could better explain it to me.

Couldn't he just not have jad a GM on the payrolls/books at all, and take that same 1 million from their companies profits?  (Not sure if there's a different tax rate, or if the companies money has to be set aside or sat on)

In my head I just like to picture him wanting the title of GM, like he's patting himself on the back for a job well done, with the salary being exactly the same as the profit if the position was removed.

[BengalsRocker]

The whole "I'd like to be a fly on the wall" during contract negotiations comes to mind here.

As a fan back when Palmer quit I thought he was acting like an ass.

I mean he DID resign a contract with a nice salary with a team & FO he was familiar with, so he must just be a diva... right?

Then on the other hand... what was promised/said to him during meetings and finalization?

We'll probably never know but there are other things that incline a player to re-up with a team than just money.

Trust might have been broken and a feeling of disrespect ensued.

In hindsight on players like CP, I'm just going to reserve my judgement because we only have a glimpse of the whole picture.

The rest is just speculation whether you side with the player or ownership.


The team had a run of finding some players in the draft years ago and have done fairly well as of late.

They tried to fill issues on the O-line via draft and missed badly. You can even say that on the D-line/Lbers as well.

A GM would have probably been fired by now for some of these missteps but alas we have Tobin who is coated with Teflon and nothing sticks.

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-27-2021, 11:34 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The cheap label comes from losing.

Bro, I like you, but you have to know this isn't at all true.

There's so much that goes into this label beyond money spent on player's salaries.  I'm not trying to beat a dead horse by continually bringing these things up, but I think I need to explain my point.

-Small front office (No GM, family members taking up majority of spots, a singular Director (Tobin vs. multiple (Csollege, Pro)
-Small scouting department. (At one point it was the smallest in the league.  Not sure if it still is, but it's way down there)
-No indoor facility.

Then you have all of the stories over the years.  You can debate which are true, which actually matter, but I don't think you can debate the total of them helps shape the perception that this team is cheap.

-Small towels. (Kijani had to buy bath towels for the lineman because they were so bad and they wouldn't replace them)
-Coin Pop Machine.  (Fulcher's story of going to the Raiders and them laughing at him because he couldn't figure out how to pay for his soda)
-Gatorade behind lock and key. (Players were taking advantage of free gatorade, so they locked it up after practice)
-Coach plane tickets. (Tony Siragusa was sent a coach ticket for his free agency visit. Sirigusa weighed like 350 pounds)
-No soap/shampoo. (Jonathan Joseph's remark when he went to Texans about having ammentities on site)
-West Coast Hotels (Marvin had to fight for years to arrive a day earlier so they players could adjust. Mike didn't want to pay for another night)
-HDMI cables (Infamous Hard Knocks scene where players had to rent HDMI cabled for their TV's for like $10)

These are just some off the top of my head.  Again, you debate some of them, but all of the above go into the narrative this is a cheap franchise.

[Stewy]

CLICK BAIT

Didn't read it.

Move along.

[*bfine32*]

(02-26-2021, 08:15 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He was (is?) paying himself $1m/yr bonus to be GM of the Bengals.

(02-27-2021, 11:52 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I never quite understood this.  Maybe we have a resident CPA on the board could better explain it to me.

No CPA but I did stay a a Holiday Inn Express last night. It's for tax purposes. If he pays himself a salary he can consider it a "reduction in equity" of the company. aka "business expense". 

[Shake n Blake]

No GM? ✔️
No practice facility? ✔️
Smallest personnel department in the league? ✔️

These aren't things haters are reaching to hate...they are supposed to be the fundamentals of running a successful pro sports franchise. Pretty much everyone has these things except the Bengals, so the perception is definitely going to be "Mike Brown is cheap" until things change.

That's not our fault. It's Mike's.

The mini-splurge in free agency last year was nice for a change. So is the uniform change and potential Ring of Honor. But until the core values of this team changes, it's throwing lipstick on a pig.

We need to get with last century and hire a GM. Build a facility so these guys aren't practicing for warm weather games in the snow. Stop waiting 5 seasons too long to make clearly necessary coaching swaps. Get our scouting staff on par with the rest of the league and stop asking coaches to do double duty.

Until then, whether it's because Mike is cheap or not, that will be "The Family's" reputation.

Btw, Florio is a turd and his website is just a showcase of him and his very opinionated and biased political and football takes.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-27-2021, 10:10 AM)samhain Wrote: Did they really, though?  He was a pretty outstanding quarterback for several years and to ignore the fact that the team became relevant during his time here is disingenuous.  He left when they wouldn't let him have a bigger say in personnel decisions.  What happened after that?  They basically did all the things he was asking for and became a solid franchise for 5 seasons.  

I'm not anti-Carson, but did he go on to win Super Bowls after we "Bungled" his career?  How many qbs had better OL or weapons than Carson did in his best years here?  1 or 2 maybe?  

It's pure conjecture to think he'd have had any more success if he were drafted by another team.  Given the trajectory of most first round quarterbacks, he probably fared above average here.  His injuries could have happened anywhere (and did again in Arizona).  The o-lne at the time of the knee injury was one of the best in the NFL.  

In fairness, CP played for 2 historically bad franchises after the Bengals...and made the NFC championship with the Cards despite playing there half as long as he did in Cincy.

CP only made the playoffs twice in 7 seasons, with 0 playoff wins. I would think a QB of Palmer's caliber would do better than that on 80% of the league's teams. It's very similar to Matt Stafford's situation. There just wasn't much success, and I'm inclined to believe most teams could've squeezed more out of a top 10ish QB.

[BenZoo2]

Florio is an asshat and an unabashed Steelers fan/bengal hater. Most of his bengals takes show little imagination. More of the same old same old.

Unfortunately for us the bengals are the only or one of a few teams where the primary business is the team. No outside business units to bring in other revenue. But they have made their stockpile.

I don’t know the feasibility of them building their own outdoor practice bubble as I don’t know what that would cost. I’ve always thought for a team that mostly lives through the draft they would be better served investing in the scouting department. Tobin would have been fired by most teams by now considering his performance. If Mikey has really stepped away from most of the decision making I’ll hold judgment until I have seen more from Katie will do moving forward


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