Dennard +2.5 PFF rating

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-20-2015, 11:53 PM)Fresno B Wrote: There is literally a debate going on right in front of your eyes about how sorry Kirkpatrick is and yet somehow our dbs are better than Seattle?  Homerism at its finest.

One through four? Yes.

[Fresno B]

(10-20-2015, 09:41 PM)djs7685 Wrote: That team with an atrocious #2 CB and a whining SS that can't cover?

Guess again. It's not 2013 anymore.

No, it's 2015. That team that just came back from the super bowl ( in same year as previously stated) courtesy of an atrocious #2 and a whining SS that can't cover.

[*Synric*]

(10-21-2015, 12:00 AM)Fresno B Wrote: No, it's 2015. That team that just came back from the super bowl ( in same year as previously stated) courtesy of an atrocious #2 and a whining SS that can't cover.

Actually Seattles other boundary corner was Byron Maxwell who left in free agency this offseason.

[Fresno B]

(10-21-2015, 12:11 AM)Synric Wrote: Actually Seattles other boundary corner was Byron Maxwell who left in free agency this offseason.

 Thats the guy who took em to the superbowl. How can I have forgotten.

[magikod]

Let's not rush it, the secondary is playing well.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(10-20-2015, 05:55 PM)Synric Wrote: First it isn't about him giving up big plays behind him. I agree there have been a few miss communications that have allowed big plays deep (Very few). Second you can't put it on PG, a corner has to be able to play zone or off-man when 2 or more WRs line up on a side its harder to press 2 or even 3 WRs.

Edit: Wanted to say it's still way to early to write off Dre or saying other guys need to start taking his snaps. Kid is big and has a lot of talent can't wait to see him progress as the season continues.

I disagree with this statement on just about every level.

[Murdock2420]

(10-20-2015, 11:53 PM)Fresno B Wrote: There is literally a debate going on right in front of your eyes about how sorry Kirkpatrick is and yet somehow our dbs are better than Seattle?  Homerism at its finest.

How sorry Kirkpatrick is yet I bet you that Seattle would take him straight up in trade for the dumpster fire they have a CB across from Sherman. I honestly think it's a 2/2 split on the better secondary. I'd take Earl Thomas, and Sherman but Chancellor has been exposed in coverage time and time again since he came back. Sure he can make a big hit in run support, but as a cover safety he looks bad and we already covered the dumpster fire they have a CB 2.

[McC]

(10-20-2015, 09:29 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I thought it was more like 3-4 times, which looks bad when you're only out there for 20% of the defensive snaps.

Dre, Jones, and Leon have played the majority of most games and have been burned less. I'm not saying Dennard is garbage or anything, but he clearly needs time to grow and I don't think we're in position to be breaking in a CB right now. This team is in great shape to make a serious playoff run.

Reggie made Dre look bad on a couple of big plays. Dre has missed some tackles. Hall and Jones haven't been perfect, but neither have been beaten badly many times. Dennard plays a handful of snaps and had really poor coverage on at least 3 separate occasions now. Not trashing the guy, but it is what it is.

I remember 2 when he was on an island and his guy got behind him.  He's a gamer, though, and will improve rapidly as he gets more PT. 

[djs7685]

(10-20-2015, 10:59 PM)eoxyod Wrote: You must not have been watching Dre at all this year

Dre had some poor tackling to lead to big plays, but he's hardly been getting burnt regularly. You must not have been watching Reggie Nelson on the plays where you seem to think Dre had poor coverage.

Again, I'm not saying Dre has been amazing and that Dennard sucks, but Darqueze has probably been burned in coverage more times than Dre this season and he has played 1/4 of the snaps. Meh. Both guys should be fine.

[djs7685]

(10-20-2015, 11:53 PM)Fresno B Wrote: There is literally a debate going on right in front of your eyes about how sorry Kirkpatrick is and yet somehow our dbs are better than Seattle?  Homerism at its finest.

If 1 player being questioned makes an entire secondary not very good, what does Cary Williams do to Seattle's ranking? Can't use that logic for just the Bengals when you're trying to prop up a team with 1 of their 4/5 starters being clearly worse than almost every CB starting in the NFL.

Haterism at its finest.

You sound like Richard Sherman with your Kirkpatrick comment, maybe you should check out the Seahawks message boards. You'd fit in better over there.

[TGISunday]

Id like to see DD in the rotation more. Dre needs to keep his feet and tackle better and his "grade" will markedly improve. DD had a rough go against Maclin, he played a #4-5 receiver last week, and they both need to emulate Adam's play more.

That's my take.

[Luvnit2]

(10-20-2015, 03:47 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I think people have a new definition for "getting burned".

Apparently all of our corners suck.

I don't see it.

Jones, Dre K, Dennard and even Hall have all played great imo. If plays are given up, I think it has to do with scheme for the most part.

WTS, you'll know BAD corner play when you see it, and we haven't yet. Just try being a Ravens fan

Some of our fans need to look around the league and see the 300 yard passers each week in the NFL, crap Rivers threw for 500 yards missing his starting slot receiver against the Packers. You mentioned the Ravens who have Jimmy Smith and Webb who were supposed to be solid, but get burned weekly.

A CB has a very tough job as NFL QB's are expected to complete 60 to 75% of their passes for a reason.

Dennard is learning on the job and I think he will be a good QB quickly the more he plays. I think Dre is already good and will also progress in the coming years. I love the fact our FO has a long term plan so guys like Dre and Dennard can sit and watch versus losing us games. In the old days, we had no choice but to throw our rookies and 2nd year guys on the field immediately (starters), we also were a losing team in the old days. I think that was a big part of the issue.

[Luvnit2]

(10-21-2015, 05:53 AM)McC Wrote: I remember 2 when he was on an island and his guy got behind him.  He's a gamer, though, and will improve rapidly as he gets more PT. 

I saw Sherman and Thomas both get beat 3 to 4 times this season.

I consider them 2 of the best at their position in the NFL.

[djs7685]

(10-21-2015, 09:14 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I saw Sherman and Thomas both get beat 3 to 4 times this season.

I consider them 2 of the best at their position in the NFL.

And they play close to 100% of their team's snaps.

Dennard plays 20% and got beat badly 3 to 4 times this season.

Christ, I'm not saying the guy is awful but can we all please stop acting like "getting burned at CB is fine! NO BIG DEAL GUYS!"

Everybody understands that every CB gets beat sometimes, but we can't pretend that Dennard didn't get beat a few times while playing a lot less snaps than others. Nobody is trashing Dennard or saying that he's going to be the worst evaarrrrr.

[Luvnit2]

(10-21-2015, 09:19 AM)djs7685 Wrote: And they play close to 100% of their team's snaps.

Dennard plays 20% and got beat badly 3 to 4 times this season.

Christ, I'm not saying the guy is awful but can we all please stop acting like "getting burned at CB is fine! NO BIG DEAL GUYS!"

Everybody understands that every CB gets beat sometimes, but we can't pretend that Dennard didn't get beat a few times while playing a lot less snaps than others. Nobody is trashing Dennard or saying that he's going to be the worst evaarrrrr.

I did not pretend anything. I stated he is young and learning (learning in the NFL = mistakes).

I don't get PFF ratings. But, if I did, I would not use them as the end all for a discussion. Those ratings are just one piece of a puzzle.

My point is veteran CB's are getting beat every week in the NFL because the rules are designed to give the WR an advantage over the CB. I expect a part time CB still learning to get beat, I also expect a smart NFL QB to target the young guy more so than the vet whether it is Dennard or Gilmore (who Jones toasted last week).

[djs7685]

(10-21-2015, 09:30 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I did not pretend anything. I stated he is young and learning (learning in the NFL = mistakes).

I don't get PFF ratings. But, if I did, I would not use them as the end all for a discussion. Those ratings are just one piece of a puzzle.

My point is veteran CB's are getting beat every week in the NFL because the rules are designed to give the WR an advantage over the CB. I expect a part time CB still learning to get beat, I also expect a smart NFL QB to target the young guy more so than the vet whether it is Dennard or Gilmore (who Jones toasted last week).

1. Yes, I think CB was right when he mentioned Dennard reminding him of Dre Kirk when he was starting out and seemingly got burnt a few times pretty badly. The only difference I see is that I remember when that happened with Dre, it was when he got thrown in as a starter on the outside in those games. Dennard played a handful of snaps and got beat on a few of them, and that's no bueno. Almost all young CBs go through it, I'm just pointing out that we can't ignore what has happened on the field for those that are brushing it off completely.

2. Who said anything about PFF rankings? I know I didn't, so I'm not sure if that comment is directed at me for whatever reason. I don't subscribe to them anymore since they decided to get rid of the only reason I enjoyed their website. All of this is my own analysis and reasoning.

3. Veteran CBs that are covering elite WRs for 100% of the defensive snaps is entirely different than a young CB covering medium WRs in 20% of the defensive snaps. I just expected Dennard to play more like the Bills game and less like the others. I'm not holding him to the standard of perfection, but it would be nice to see him at least closer to the better side of his potential rather than seeing him play 49% of the defensive snaps and getting beaten badly twice in coverage in a single game.

The point is, much like a lot of the board being concerned with Dre Kirk getting beat by double moves in the past, there is a slight concern with Dennard getting beat in awfully similar fashion multiple times. Jeremy Maclin, Chris Conley (who isn't good), and Doug Baldwin (who is overrated) made him look silly, but we can hope that doesn't happen often in the future. Like I said earlier, it was nice to see Dennard play a lot of the Bills game and he really looked great out there in coverage for most of the game. If we see a side of him closer to that rather than how he looked in KC, we should have a strong secondary for years to come.

[Element]

Lol pure homerism from people on these boards. Our secondary is not better then Seattles, stop it.

[djs7685]

(10-21-2015, 10:10 AM)Element Wrote: Lol pure homerism from people on these boards. Our secondary is not better then Seattles, stop it.

Sherman >>>>> Jones
Dre >>>>> Williams
Iloka >= Chancellor
Thomas >>> Nelson
Hall >>> Shead

The point is that in 2015, it isn't a slam dunk that Seattle has the best secondary in the league anymore. This isn't 2013 anymore. We need to stop pretending that they're amazing because they have a nickname and used to be #1 in the league.

Chancellor has been a liability more often than not and even Sherman and Thomas have been making more mistakes than they normally do. Cary Williams is God awful and if you bring each team's 5th DB into it (which you should since they play so much nowadays), Hall is clearly superior to Shead.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-20-2015, 03:39 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Eh, Dennard has seemingly been burned more times than anyone else in our secondary this year and he's only been on the field for 20-25% of the team's snaps.

It's tough to assume that he'll have great games going forward because of 1 good game, but at least things are looking up from the first few games. Nice to see.

I usually agree with you DJS but not here. Kirkpatrick has been beat more than any CB.

[djs7685]

(10-21-2015, 12:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I usually agree with you DJS but not here. Kirkpatrick has been beat more than any CB.

I remember seeing a couple plays where I originally wanted to complain about Dre, but then realized it was Reggie's fault after the fact.

Dennard was beat badly on 3 separate plays this year, and he only played a handful of snaps in the first few games. I'd have to go back and watch the games again, but I can't seem to remember Dre getting burned more than just a couple of times that were actually poor coverage and not something like the plays where Nelson made a mistake but Dre was also in the area.