Slater And Freiermuth

[BFritz21]

I know people have been wanting Pitts in the first round and it seems like it's either him or Sewell, but I think we should trade down in the first, get some extra picks, take Slater, and then get Freiermuth in the second and maybe even another player in the first or second depending on what we can get from a trade.

REASONING

I think Slater is actually a better prospect than Sewell and his lack of height and arm reach is the only weakness. That's a big problem when thinking about a left tackle but if, and only if, Pollack thinks it's not a problem, then we take Slater and watch him become a better pro than Sewell.

I also like Freiermuth more than Pitts because I want my tight ends to be old school where they're more compact and can dish more of a force in the Gronk-type mold. Freiermuth is an inch shorter than Pitts and 15 pounds heavier, so I feel like he'd be more of an outlet in the middle of the field and a safety net for Burrow.

I think having a target up the seams and in the middle of the field would make our offense so much more dangerous and would elevate Burrow's game more than Pitts would and it would also give us a better red zone threat.

Thoughts?

[Schmitbuck]

(03-23-2021, 11:02 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I know people have been wanting Pitts in the first round and it seems like it's either him or Sewell, but I think we should trade down in the first, get some extra picks, take Slater, and then get Freiermuth in the second and maybe even another player in the first or second depending on what we can get from a trade.

REASONING

I think Slater is actually a better prospect than Sewell and his lack of height and arm reach is the only weakness.  That's a big problem when thinking about a left tackle but if, and only if, Pollack thinks it's not a problem, then we take Slater and watch him become a better pro than Sewell.

I also like Freiermuth more than Pitts because I want my tight ends to be old school where they're more compact and can dish more of a force in the Gronk-type mold.  Freiermuth is an inch shorter than Pitts and 15 pounds heavier, so I feel like he'd be more of an outlet in the middle of the field and a safety net for Burrow.  

I think having a target up the seams and in the middle of the field would make our offense so much more dangerous and would elevate Burrow's game more than Pitts would and it would also give us a better red zone threat.

Thoughts?

I like this much better than any Pitts or Chase scenario at 5 and agree that Freiermuth would be a better fit for the offense our coaches run. 

I might be in the minority, but I don't see TE as a pressing need to take one in the 2nd or 3rd. 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-23-2021, 11:02 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I know people have been wanting Pitts in the first round and it seems like it's either him or Sewell, but I think we should trade down in the first, get some extra picks, take Slater, and then get Freiermuth in the second and maybe even another player in the first or second depending on what we can get from a trade.

REASONING

I think Slater is actually a better prospect than Sewell and his lack of height and arm reach is the only weakness.  That's a big problem when thinking about a left tackle but if, and only if, Pollack thinks it's not a problem, then we take Slater and watch him become a better pro than Sewell.

I also like Freiermuth more than Pitts because I want my tight ends to be old school where they're more compact and can dish more of a force in the Gronk-type mold.  Freiermuth is an inch shorter than Pitts and 15 pounds heavier, so I feel like he'd be more of an outlet in the middle of the field and a safety net for Burrow.  

I think having a target up the seams and in the middle of the field would make our offense so much more dangerous and would elevate Burrow's game more than Pitts would and it would also give us a better red zone threat.

Thoughts?

While this approach is fine, Freiermuth is not the same caliber of receiving weapon as Pitts. It's a pretty big difference.
Freiermuth is more in the mold of Gronk in terms of size and speed, whereas Pitts is more the size and speed of Darren Waller.
Both are effective, but they are different styles.

Also, you're right on Slater. The only real limitation he has is his lack of length. He has great mobility. However, the Bengals may not want to trade back more than a couple picks if they really want him, as he could get snagged before they pick if they go back too far.
They should have Christian Darrisaw as their backup plan if they trade back for Slater and Slater gets taken before their new pick.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-23-2021, 11:14 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I like this much better than any Pitts or Chase scenario at 5 and agree that Freiermuth would be a better fit for the offense our coaches run. 

I might be in the minority, but I don't see TE as a pressing need to take one in the 2nd or 3rd. 

It depends on the following two things:
1) How confident are you in Uzomah and/or Sample being a Top 10 TE?
2) How confident are you that Taylor's offensive playcalling would get the TE enough targets to make the TE a Top 3 option in the offense?

For #1, I am skeptical Uzomah will get there, and I am highly confident Sample will not get there.
For #2, Uzomah averaged 5.5 targets per game in 2020, which was 15th in the league. Over a whole season, that would be 88 targets. The total number of targets Sample + Uzomah got was 64 targets.

If the Bengals did end up giving the TE 80-100 targets a season, that would justify going after a TE like Pitts, Freiermuth, or Brevin Jordan.

And I think a lot of people who are wanting Pitts (like myself) would hope that an "offensive mind" like Taylor would be able to structure an offensive game plan around Pitts to get him plenty of targets instead of just making him a blocking TE who goes out for some passes. So basically, the passing offense would focus on Pitts, Higgins, and Boyd instead of Higgins, Boyd, and a WR3.

[bengaloo]

Bucky Brooks just flashed his top 10 mock draft on NFL network and he has us taking Slater at #5. Pitts wasnt in the top 10.

[BFritz21]

(03-23-2021, 11:16 AM)ochocincos Wrote: While this approach is fine, Freiermuth is not the same caliber of receiving weapon as Pitts. It's a pretty big difference.
Freiermuth is more in the mold of Gronk in terms of size and speed, whereas Pitts is more the size and speed of Darren Waller.
Both are effective, but they are different styles.

Also, you're right on Slater. The only real limitation he has is his lack of length. He has great mobility. However, the Bengals may not want to trade back more than a couple picks if they really want him, as he could get snagged before they pick if they go back too far.
They should have Christian Darrisaw as their backup plan if they trade back for Slater and Slater gets taken before their new pick.

He may not be a receiving threat in the aspect of being an actual receiver, but, in the traditional sense of a tight end, I think Feiermuth is actually a better receiver.

I don't care that Pitts can be a receiver on the outside because I don't want an extra receiver, which is how Pitts was used at Florida; I want a big, bad-ass tight end that can be physical and control the middle of the field.  That would give the defense so much more area to cover and keep safeties and backers in the middle of the field and off of our receivers.

I want that Gronk-type and I want physicality at the tight end position!  He'd be Burrow's best friend!  It would also improve our run game and, as mentioned, keep safeties and backers off receivers on the outside!  

That's what AFC North football is about- being physical!

[Schmitbuck]

(03-23-2021, 11:24 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It depends on the following two things:
1) How confident are you in Uzomah and/or Sample being a Top 10 TE?
2) How confident are you that Taylor's offensive playcalling would get the TE enough targets to make the TE a Top 3 option in the offense?

For #1, I am skeptical Uzomah will get there, and I am highly confident Sample will not get there.
For #2, Uzomah averaged 5.5 targets per game in 2020, which was 15th in the league. Over a whole season, that would be 88 targets. The total number of targets Sample + Uzomah got was 64 targets.

If the Bengals did end up giving the TE 80-100 targets a game, that would justify going after a TE like Pitts, Freiermuth, or Brevin Jordan.

And I think a lot of people who are wanting Pitts (like myself) would hope that an "offensive mind" like Taylor would be able to structure an offensive game plan around Pitts to get him plenty of targets instead of just making him a blocking TE who goes out for some passes. So basically, the passing offense would focus on Pitts, Higgins, and Boyd instead of Higgins, Boyd, and a WR3.

1- Don't need them to be TOP 10 TEs.
2- Sample was 5th on the team in receiving yards last year. I think CJ could have been 3rd in receiving yards if he hadn't gotten injured, but there is a small sample size of two games.


None of this TE talk will matter if Burrow doesn't have time to throw the ball. Fix that before you start chasing the shiny weapons. 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-23-2021, 12:11 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: 1- Don't need them to be TOP 10 TEs.
2- Sample was 5th on the team in receiving yards last year. I think CJ could have been 3rd in receiving yards if he hadn't gotten injured, but there is a small sample size of two games.


None of this TE talk will matter if Burrow doesn't have time to throw the ball. Fix that before you start chasing the shiny weapons. 

By that same sense then, you don't NEED a WR to be a Top 10 WR.
But I would argue that Higgins and Boyd are closer to being Top 10 WRs than the Bengals TEs are to being Top 10 at their position.

Also, let's not act like the Bengals can't get a good OL on Day 2 to help give Burrow more time. It's not "Sewell, Slater, or bust."


I'm fine waiting until next year for TE, but I dunno if there will be a TE of the same caliber as Pitts in next year's draft.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-23-2021, 12:05 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: He may not be a receiving threat in the aspect of being an actual receiver, but, in the traditional sense of a tight end, I think Feiermuth is actually a better receiver.

I don't care that Pitts can be a receiver on the outside because I don't want an extra receiver, which is how Pitts was used at Florida; I want a big, bad-ass tight end that can be physical and control the middle of the field.  That would give the defense so much more area to cover and keep safeties and backers in the middle of the field and off of our receivers.

I want that Gronk-type and I want physicality at the tight end position!  He'd be Burrow's best friend!  It would also improve our run game and, as mentioned, keep safeties and backers off receivers on the outside!  

That's what AFC North football is about- being physical!

In no way, shape, or form is Freiermuth actually a better receiver.
He's just a more traditional TE.

Pitts can, and should, play in the middle of the field. But his athleticism and speed allows him to also play on the outside occasionally, which is extremely rare for a TE. Most traditional TEs are plodders who get targets in the short and intermediate routes and don't really get much YAC. They are safety blankets who also score a good amount of TEs.
Those guys are obviously good to have, but if you can have someone who can do that and more, you always go for the one who can do more.

[XenoMorph]

(03-23-2021, 11:24 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It depends on the following two things:
1) How confident are you in Uzomah and/or Sample being a Top 10 TE?
2) How confident are you that Taylor's offensive playcalling would get the TE enough targets to make the TE a Top 3 option in the offense?

For #1, I am skeptical Uzomah will get there, and I am highly confident Sample will not get there.
For #2, Uzomah averaged 5.5 targets per game in 2020, which was 15th in the league. Over a whole season, that would be 88 targets. The total number of targets Sample + Uzomah got was 64 targets.

If the Bengals did end up giving the TE 80-100 targets a game, that would justify going after a TE like Pitts, Freiermuth, or Brevin Jordan.

And I think a lot of people who are wanting Pitts (like myself) would hope that an "offensive mind" like Taylor would be able to structure an offensive game plan around Pitts to get him plenty of targets instead of just making him a blocking TE who goes out for some passes. So basically, the passing offense would focus on Pitts, Higgins, and Boyd instead of Higgins, Boyd, and a WR3.

1. more confident if the OL gives burrow time
2. Confidence in Taylor? hbahahahahaha

[Gdale_Bengal]

Here’s the thing, while Sewell needs more work than slater, but if he adds more core strength and improves his punch on the outside, because it f his physical gifts he will be light years better than slater. He’s 20, and will improve.

Pitts is the future at tight end in the nfl, while freiermuth is the old nfl. Tgey really shouldn’t think about going old school right now at this position, because the nfl is adapting.

[bengaloo]

I dont know if we will ever see another guy who is 6'6" 240 who can run like Pitts. Seems like he's the future of the position on the surface, but how many 6'6" people out there can run a 4.4? In my mind he may be more of an anomaly than the future of TE. He's really a WR stuck in a really tall body. Its amazing how fast and athletic he is for being that tall. But he's not built like a TE at all, and struggles with blocking. In my mind he is more of a really big WR than a TE. He's just a rare athlete and some teams may struggle to find the proper role for him, because his lack of blocking ability will negate being used like a typical TE. If he builds some more muscle and works hard at blocking, he could be the best TE ever. But who knows at this point. Lots of questions with Pitts. The only certainty at this point is that he is a rare athletic specimen. Would I like to have him? Pffft. I wouldnt complain at all! I'd love to have a guy like Pitts. But I still consider protecting Burrow the #1 priority in this draft.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-23-2021, 11:02 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I know people have been wanting Pitts in the first round and it seems like it's either him or Sewell, but I think we should trade down in the first, get some extra picks, take Slater, and then get Freiermuth in the second and maybe even another player in the first or second depending on what we can get from a trade.

REASONING

I think Slater is actually a better prospect than Sewell and his lack of height and arm reach is the only weakness.  That's a big problem when thinking about a left tackle but if, and only if, Pollack thinks it's not a problem, then we take Slater and watch him become a better pro than Sewell.

I also like Freiermuth more than Pitts because I want my tight ends to be old school where they're more compact and can dish more of a force in the Gronk-type mold.  Freiermuth is an inch shorter than Pitts and 15 pounds heavier, so I feel like he'd be more of an outlet in the middle of the field and a safety net for Burrow.  

I think having a target up the seams and in the middle of the field would make our offense so much more dangerous and would elevate Burrow's game more than Pitts would and it would also give us a better red zone threat.

Thoughts?

Would be happy with it. Still would rather have Pitts and say Eichenberg/Cosmi more just cause I think Pitts is too rare of a 
player to pass on after running a 4.46 forty at 6'6". But if we went your route we would add more picks and Slater is good and
so is Freiermuth. I like your idea, also would like a Darrisaw/Freiermuth or a Darrisaw/Boogie Basham if we want to add more 
picks. I like Darrisaw just as much as Slater.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(03-23-2021, 11:24 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It depends on the following two things:
1) How confident are you in Uzomah and/or Sample being a Top 10 TE?
2) How confident are you that Taylor's offensive playcalling would get the TE enough targets to make the TE a Top 3 option in the offense?

For #1, I am skeptical Uzomah will get there, and I am highly confident Sample will not get there.
For #2, Uzomah averaged 5.5 targets per game in 2020, which was 15th in the league. Over a whole season, that would be 88 targets. The total number of targets Sample + Uzomah got was 64 targets.

If the Bengals did end up giving the TE 80-100 targets a game, that would justify going after a TE like Pitts, Freiermuth, or Brevin Jordan.

And I think a lot of people who are wanting Pitts (like myself) would hope that an "offensive mind" like Taylor would be able to structure an offensive game plan around Pitts to get him plenty of targets instead of just making him a blocking TE who goes out for some passes. So basically, the passing offense would focus on Pitts, Higgins, and Boyd instead of Higgins, Boyd, and a WR3.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-23-2021, 04:10 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote:

That's really not a crazy amount. 12 TEs got 80+ targets in 2020. Add another 4 if going 70+.

[BFritz21]

(03-23-2021, 02:41 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Here’s the thing, while Sewell needs more work than slater, but if he adds more core strength and improves his punch on the outside, because it f his physical gifts he will be light years better than slater. He’s 20, and will improve.

Pitts is the future at tight end in the nfl, while freiermuth is the old nfl. Tgey really shouldn’t think about going old school right now at this position, because the nfl is adapting.

I agree the NFL is adapting and phasing out these style tight ends, but that's why I think Freiermuth is more valuable.

The way the NFL is adapting is just using tight ends as big receivers, which why wouldn't we just draft a big receiver?  

A traditional tight end still a weapon in the red zone and still makes the defense respect the middle of the field, which is huge for play action.

Other teams will also have troubles preparing for a tight end like Freiermuth because they don't have anyone to mimic him in practice and don't face many like him in any other games.

It gives Burrow the entire field to use as an option and pick where he wants to throw the ball.

[KillerGoose]

(03-23-2021, 04:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's really not a crazy amount. 12 TEs got 80+ targets in 2020. Add another 4 if going 70+.

You said 80-100 targets a game.

[KillerGoose]

(03-23-2021, 04:57 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I agree the NFL is adapting and phasing out these style tight ends, but that's why I think Freiermuth is more valuable.

The way the NFL is adapting is just using tight ends as big receivers, which why wouldn't we just draft a big receiver?  

A traditional tight end still a weapon in the red zone and still makes the defense respect the middle of the field, which is huge for play action.

Other teams will also have troubles preparing for a tight end like Freiermuth because they don't have anyone to mimic him in practice and don't face many like him in any other games.

It gives Burrow the entire field to use as an option and pick where he wants to throw the ball.

This doesn’t make any sense to me. Kyle Pitts still plays the exact same position as Freiermuth, except he is bigger, faster and more athletic. He is a TE with WR athleticism, but he is going to see LB and S coverage, not CB. That’s the big difference. He is a matchup nightmare. Kyle does everything that Pat does, except better.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(03-23-2021, 04:57 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I agree the NFL is adapting and phasing out these style tight ends, but that's why I think Freiermuth is more valuable.

The way the NFL is adapting is just using tight ends as big receivers, which why wouldn't we just draft a big receiver?  

A traditional tight end still a weapon in the red zone and still makes the defense respect the middle of the field, which is huge for play action.

Other teams will also have troubles preparing for a tight end like Freiermuth because they don't have anyone to mimic him in practice and don't face many like him in any other games.

It gives Burrow the entire field to use as an option and pick where he wants to throw the ball.

Everything you posted here is what Pitts can do, but better.

He’s a chess piece you use to find better match ups on the defense. He’s faster than linebackers and taller than safeties. If you split him out corners aren’t tall enough to defend him.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-23-2021, 05:35 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: You said 80-100 targets a game.

Oh lol. I'll fix it!