Is Trae Waynes a possible cut?

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(03-24-2021, 08:13 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Other than we seem to have horrible luck with injuries.  We also have no training/rehab facility and a small medical staff.

I mean, we have an MRI machine in the stadium (one of only 2 teams in the league at that), so how do we not have medical facilities in the building?

[CJD]

Cutting him today would create a dead cap of 12M and only 3.8M in cap savings. For better or worse, he'll be on the team this year.

After the 2021 season, however, cutting him from the final year of the deal would cost the Bengals 5M in dead cap and would give them 11M in cap savings. So, I think this is his make or break year.

If he is injury prone and/or ineffective in 2021, I would expect him to be cut and then the Bengals could use that 11M in savings to go find a new starting CB. Or they could draft one in the 2022 draft.

[fredtoast]

(03-24-2021, 09:59 AM)spazz70 Wrote: Brad said a gym smaller than a local gym...I thought that was funny because a local gym will have like 200-300 people at one time, the Bengals maybe 60-80?  Why would they need a huge cavern for gym/weight room?

Brad has a buddy who owns a local gym. He thinks the team should us his buddy's place because it is so much better than what the Bengals have.

[BoomerFan]

If you cut him after 06/01 you get 5 million in freed cap, which is better than nothing if you really don't believe he'll contribute. I suppose you could spend that money in advance if you knew that were going to free it up later (basically using the $10 million we keep for injuries as the source of a temporary loan to ourselves.

I really don't understand dead cap though. How can Trae only have $15 million guaranteed (on a $42 million contract) and yet if you add up the dead cap over all 3 years you get $32 million??

[pdub2005]

(03-24-2021, 08:44 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: You just said it yourself.  They come to Paul Brown.  Paul Brown isn't a training/rehab facility.  Show me where they have the training/rehab equipment in Paul Brown and I'll agree with you.

Do you think they just magically have some hidden underground bunker with tons of training/rehab equipment and a staff to go with it?

I got married at PBS and I can assure you they have training equipment. They have a ton of workout equipment and a miniature indoor field in the sub level. So you are actually kinda right lol.

[TJ528]

(03-24-2021, 09:56 AM)shanebo Wrote: I think that's just because we pay more attention to the Bengals and their injuries than other teams.  If you look at the stats, we've actually been one of the least injury-prone teams over the past several years: 

https://www.sportfacts.org/nfl-injuries-by-team/

https://www.weisspaarz.com/nfl-injuries-over-five-seasons/

Nice research. I would've never guessed that because it always seems like we have a major injury bug on our team. 

[*pally*]

(03-24-2021, 09:13 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: That's a weight room where you can't even see the equipment or the size of it but it doesn't look like there's any state-of-the art machinery or anything and just looks like a high school-level weight room.  Other teams have entire facilities.

That field is a joke.  What can they get done on that?  Not much of anything.
Training ROOM!  Other teams have FACILITIES!

You act like it's ignorance to assume that we don't have a training room or rehab area, which I never said they don't, but it's a joke compared to what other NFL franchises have.  They have a weight room that looks a lot smaller than gyms in the area and that "field" isn't a field.  

They have an underwater treadmill?  That's great but it's not something that makes missing everything else ok.

what do other franchises have in their facilities for rehab that the Bengals don't?

[Sled21]

(03-24-2021, 09:13 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: That's a weight room where you can't even see the equipment or the size of it but it doesn't look like there's any state-of-the art machinery or anything and just looks like a high school-level weight room.  Other teams have entire facilities.

That field is a joke.  What can they get done on that?  Not much of anything.
Training ROOM!  Other teams have FACILITIES!

You act like it's ignorance to assume that we don't have a training room or rehab area, which I never said they don't, but it's a joke compared to what other NFL franchises have.  They have a weight room that looks a lot smaller than gyms in the area and that "field" isn't a field.  

They have an underwater treadmill?  That's great but it's not something that makes missing everything else ok.

What are they missing that you think they should have?

[*pally*]

(03-24-2021, 10:56 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Nice research. I would've never guessed that because it always seems like we have a major injury bug on our team. 

I think in part they look bad because we tended to get entire position groups injured at the same time so the impact seems worse.  Last season, we got hit hard on the DL early in the season, the DBs midseason, and OL at the end of the season

[CJD]

(03-24-2021, 10:42 AM)BoomerFan Wrote: If you cut him after 06/01 you get 5 million in freed cap, which is better than nothing if you really don't believe he'll contribute. I suppose you could spend that money in advance if you knew that were going to free it up later (basically using the $10 million we keep for injuries as the source of a temporary loan to ourselves.

I really don't understand dead cap though. How can Trae only have $15 million guaranteed (on a $42 million contract) and yet if you add up the dead cap over all 3 years you get $32 million??

I think you're double counting some dead cap.

For example, if they cut him now, there'd be 12M in dead cap. That would be 2/3 of his signing bonus, a total of 10M from his signing bonus over the two remaining years + the 2M roster bonus that I believe he's already collected (it became guaranteed on the 5th day of the 2021 league year, which was...Sunday I think). If they had cut him during 2020, I don't think he was guaranteed that roster bonus, but I am not sure since Spotrac tabulates things in real time, so once it's collected, it's dead money.

If they cut him after 2022, then the dead cap is 5M, which is the final 3rd of his 15M signing bonus (which we already counted in the above scenario). 

The dead cap for 2020 is listed as 20M on spotrac for the same reason that the roster bonus is considered dead money. His first year's salary of 5M has already been collected. Or maybe it was guaranteed and they just don't include the first year salary in the guaranteed money figure when the contract is announced because they assume if you're signing a guy for 42 million dollars, he won't be cut in training camp. I'm not sure.

The point is, if you cut him now that he's collected his roster bonus, you have 12M for 2021 because the final 3rd of the signing bonus is now moved to the 2021 cap, since he isn't under contract for 2022 anymore. If you cut him in 2022, then it's just the 5M dead, since he's already collected the other 7M.

Now, if you cut him after 6/1, then you'd have 7M dead cap in 2021 and 5M dead cap in 2022 rather than all 12M in 2021, but the numbers still come out the same. It's just what year they are put in that changes.

Hopefully I'm making sense as I ramble.

[kalibengal]

(03-24-2021, 09:58 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I can see why you're asking that, but I don't think so. A read that the Bengals was forced to play their 8th CB last year because of injuries. I think it's a great move by the team having Apple & Phillips battle over the 4th/5th CB spots. Is there a team that has a better 4th & 5th CB 'combo' in the league?

After signing Apple, it got me wondering the same about Waynes.....I have yet to hear a peep on how his rehab is going..
I hope this is all untrue but it was an intersting signing especially after we already picked Awuzi and Hilton and have Phillps who is not a scrub 

 

[Sled21]

(03-24-2021, 11:41 AM)kalibengal Wrote: After signing Apple, it got me wondering the same about Waynes.....I have yet to hear a peep on how his rehab is going..
I hope this is all untrue but it was an intersting signing especially after we already picked Awuzi and Hilton and have Phillps who is not a scrub 

 

It's a 6 month recovery, he's fine. He will have had a full year.  If I'm going to worry about a rehab, it will be how fast Reader and Hopkins can recover...
....RECOVERY TIMELINE



Is It Difficult To Recover From A Pec Tear? - NYSMI (nysportsmedicineinstitute.com)

Quote:It’s essential to remember that each patient and pec tear is different. Not everyone will recover at the same pace, so you shouldn’t get frustrated if you fall a bit behind the expected timeline. However, on average, you can expect it to take around six months to make a full recovery from this type of injury.  

[Au165]

(03-24-2021, 11:50 AM)Sled21 Wrote: It's a 6 month recovery, he's fine. He will have had a full year.  If I'm going to worry about a rehab, it will be how fast Reader and Hopkins can recover...
....RECOVERY TIMELINE



Is It Difficult To Recover From A Pec Tear? - NYSMI (nysportsmedicineinstitute.com)

I tore my pec and labrum in my shoulder in college. I decided to pass on surgery and just did rehab and made it back 3 months later to close out the season even though I wasn't close to 100% I could function. 

[grampahol]

I guess the reason it seems the Bengals have more injuries is the number of losing seasons and the number of starters that get injured.. Didn't Burrow's injury count as 11 injuries at the time? It sure seemed like that many to me.. Back when Geno banged up his knee it felt like 5 guys went out. AJ, the same thing. Some injuries carry a lot more weight than others.. Your starting QB, especially someone like Burrow might as well be every backup on the team.. 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-24-2021, 06:50 AM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Not sure how his contract is built but with the recent signings of all these CBs I wonder if Waynes could be on his way out without playing one snap for the Bengals.  Maybe injury concerns are still there.  I personally don't want him to get cut.  I'd like to see what we paid all that money for. However if it means extending Bates long term I'd be for it.

Not for 2021, but he could be released in 2022 if he doesn't play well this year. 2022 will be his final year under contract and only has a $5 mill dead cap ($11 mill savings in cap).

[BFritz21]

(03-24-2021, 09:18 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: we are so far behind the times

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jefffedotin/2019/07/08/medical-marvels-bengals-are-lone-nfl-team-with-an-mri-at-their-stadium/?sh=41bd0225b2d9

I had no clue.  I haven't been keeping up with the times.  I'm glad to be wrong!

I applaud Mike Brown!

(03-24-2021, 09:38 AM)Au165 Wrote: You said... 

Show me where they have the training/rehab equipment in Paul Brown and I'll agree with you.

I showed you, you are still fighting it. You said we have no training or rehab facility, a facility is a place provided for a specific purpose. We have a training and rehab facility and you are wrong. The fact you want some sort of stand-alone building is nice, but it doesn't mean we don't have the facilities to properly do rehab as you alluded to.

I was wrong.  That "field" still is bogus though and not enough.

(03-24-2021, 09:50 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Brad. No, they don’t. That video was a $2M expansion. What in the world are you expecting? Here is an article that gives you a look into other teams training rooms/facilities, and then they rank them. They have the Bengals at 6th.

https://www.stack.com/a/all-32-nfl-weight-rooms-ranked

Wow.  I guess I haven't been keeping up in the past 6 or 7 years.  I'm surprised.  That's truly shocking to me.  How is our medical staff?  Have we built that at all?

[Au165]

(03-24-2021, 02:52 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I had no clue.  I haven't been keeping up with the times.  I'm glad to be wrong!

I applaud Mike Brown!
I was wrong.  That "field" still is bogus though and not enough.

Wow.  I guess I haven't been keeping up in the past 6 or 7 years.  I'm surprised.  That's truly shocking to me.  How is our medical staff?  Have we built that at all?

I appreciate your acceptance of the situation. The field is what it is, it's honestly more for rehab field than it is a practice field as guys can run routes on it and such.

[Sled21]

(03-24-2021, 02:52 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I had no clue.  I haven't been keeping up with the times.  I'm glad to be wrong!

I applaud Mike Brown!
I was wrong.  That "field" still is bogus though and not enough.

Wow.  I guess I haven't been keeping up in the past 6 or 7 years.  I'm surprised.  That's truly shocking to me.  How is our medical staff?  Have we built that at all?

If you're talking about team physicians, I have no idea (players usually see specialists anyway)  If you're talking about athletic trainers, we have 2 of thee best in the business in Sparling and Cosgray.

[*pally*]

(03-24-2021, 02:52 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I had no clue.  I haven't been keeping up with the times.  I'm glad to be wrong!

I applaud Mike Brown!
I was wrong.  That "field" still is bogus though and not enough.

Wow.  I guess I haven't been keeping up in the past 6 or 7 years.  I'm surprised.  That's truly shocking to me.  How is our medical staff?  Have we built that at all?

There was a change 6 or 7 years ago. Gone are the days where all the docs came from 1 practice.  I believe Dr Reilly is the only holdover

Head Doctor-Mark Galloway with Cincinnati Sports Medicine (Mercy Hospital)
Internal Medicine- Ed Jung (Christ Hospital)
Shoulder/Elbow-Brian Grawe-(UC)...also UC Athletics doctor
General Ortho& Emergency Medicine-  Bret Betz (UC) also Miami Univ athletics doctor
General Ortho-Kevin Reilly (Tri Health)

[WeezyBengal]

(03-24-2021, 02:52 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I had no clue.  I haven't been keeping up with the times.  I'm glad to be wrong!

I applaud Mike Brown!
I was wrong.  That "field" still is bogus though and not enough.

Wow.  I guess I haven't been keeping up in the past 6 or 7 years.  I'm surprised.  That's truly shocking to me.  How is our medical staff?  Have we built that at all?

Props to admitting you are wrong. People don't do that enough these days.