Dolphins trade #3 pick

[Frank Booth]

(03-26-2021, 07:05 PM)Whatever Wrote: Uh, no, his starting LG and RT went down early in the season.

I guess they don’t need those guys since they won all those regular season games

That’s why they opened their wallets for Joe Thuney

Losers. They should’ve picked up Will Fuller and loaded up that offense with super weapons AHHHH

[TecmoBengals]

We must be starved Bengals fans for how legitimate franchises make moves. Dolphins do some shuffling and the thread reaches 8 pages.

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-26-2021, 07:00 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: He had one very good year. He was elite that season.

Agree to disagree, but I don't consider that season to be elite. 

Sub 1,200 yards, sub 5.0 YPC, sub 10 TD's, sub 500 receiving yards.  You don't have to eclipse all of these markers but you better hit on some combo or greatly outpace a single category.

1,100 yard season with under 10 TD's and high 4 YPC, with limited production the pass game aren't really all that uncommon.  Now, it might be hard to stretch them out year after year, but on their own they're nowhere close to elite.

Elite is Derrick Henry these last two years. 2,027 yards rushing and 17 TD's in 2020.  1,540 yards rushing and 16 TD's in 2019.

Elite is Dalvin Cook, 1,557 yards rushing and and 16 TD's in 2020. (Fun fact: His new contract puts him at an equal value per year to Mixon)

Elite is Christian McCaffrey, 1,387 yards rushing and 6 TD's, 116 catches for 1,005 yards in 2019.

Elite is what Alvin Kamara did this year with 1,700 yards from scrimmage, a 5.0 YPC, and 21 total TD's.

I think Mixon had a pretty good 2018.  I think he's a pretty good back.  But I don't think he's ever been close to elite, and certainly isn't now.

[BengalsFanRealist2855]

(03-26-2021, 07:17 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Agree to disagree, but I don't consider that season to be elite. 

Sub 1,200 yards, sub 5.0 YPC, sub 10 TD's, sub 500 receiving yards.  You don't have to eclipse all of these markers but you better hit on some combo or greatly outpace a single category.

1,100 yard season with under 10 TD's and high 4 YPC, with limited production the pass game aren't really all that uncommon.  Now, it might be hard to stretch them out year after year, but on their own they're nowhere close to elite.

Elite is Derrick Henry these last two years. 2,027 yards rushing and 17 TD's in 2020.  1,540 yards rushing and 16 TD's in 2019.

Elite is Dalvin Cook, 1,557 yards rushing and and 16 TD's in 2020. (Fun fact: His new contract puts him at an equal value per year to Mixon)

Elite is Christian McCaffrey, 1,387 yards rushing and 6 TD's, 116 catches for 1,005 yards in 2019.

Elite is what Alvin Kamara did this year with 1,700 yards from scrimmage, a 5.0 YPC, and 21 total TD's.

I think Mixon had a pretty good 2018.  I think he's a pretty good back.  But I don't think he's ever been close to elite, and certainly isn't now.

I agree with you. Mixon will never be elite,good on a good day. Plus like I explained I noticed he usually gets his 100 yard games towards the end of the year against a bad team. I don't think we use him right. His elite trait is pass catching. He doesn't break many tackles and isn't real fast.

I wanted dalvin cook that year and was surprised we took mixon. I do like mixon as a team guy though,but think he's over valued and over paid. Also the injuries is a problem.  

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

So can either of you two point out when Mixon had a decent line to run behind? I get that you love numbers . . . tell the year(s) he had even an average NFL line to run behind, please.

[coachmcneil71]

(03-26-2021, 07:17 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Agree to disagree, but I don't consider that season to be elite. 

Sub 1,200 yards, sub 5.0 YPC, sub 10 TD's, sub 500 receiving yards.  You don't have to eclipse all of these markers but you better hit on some combo or greatly outpace a single category.

1,100 yard season with under 10 TD's and high 4 YPC, with limited production the pass game aren't really all that uncommon.  Now, it might be hard to stretch them out year after year, but on their own they're nowhere close to elite.

Elite is Derrick Henry these last two years. 2,027 yards rushing and 17 TD's in 2020.  1,540 yards rushing and 16 TD's in 2019.

Elite is Dalvin Cook, 1,557 yards rushing and and 16 TD's in 2020. (Fun fact: His new contract puts him at an equal value per year to Mixon)

Elite is Christian McCaffrey, 1,387 yards rushing and 6 TD's, 116 catches for 1,005 yards in 2019.

Elite is what Alvin Kamara did this year with 1,700 yards from scrimmage, a 5.0 YPC, and 21 total TD's.

I think Mixon had a pretty good 2018.  I think he's a pretty good back.  But I don't think he's ever been close to elite, and certainly isn't now.

Lol.... I'm certainly not going to debate Mixon. He's not my guy, much like Ross and Sample. Ignorance in the draft room as far as I'm concerned. Where did he rank in 2018 among AFC RBs?.... One other thing, take it for what it's worth? ESPN recently polled a group of 50 league executives to rate the NFLs top RBs. Mixon was ranked 8th! Citing an atrocious offensive line that is truly offensive to everything Bengal. And, young inexperienced coaches and play calling.

I don't see it either, but maybe with Pollacks return there is hope?

[Joelist]

The real question is how deep is the OL class versus how deep is the WR class (or TE or whatever).

OL is pretty deep. Tucker is mentioned as in the same class as Sewell and there are a couple more in that general group.

WR is not deep. After Smith and Chase the quality drop is pretty sharp.

TE is even shallower. It's Pitts or bust basically.

The other problem is trying to figure out if a position group is deep enough for you to wait until the 2nd round. We've gotten burned on that before but I am not sure they have the guts to trade back up into the first to ensure getting their man.

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-26-2021, 07:40 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: So can either of you two point out when Mixon had a decent line to run behind? I get that you love numbers . . . tell the year(s) he had even an average NFL line to run behind, please.

The Vikings had the 26th ranked offensive line this season according to PFF.  Dalvin Cook had 1,5557 yards rushing, averaged 5.0 yards a carry, scored 16 TD rushing touchdowns, and caught 44 balls for 361 yards and another 3 TD's.  HE DID THIS IN ONLY 14 games!!!

Until Joe Mixon proves to actually be elite then I'm not buying it.  Not only are the numbers not there, he doesn't always pass the eye test either. Hell, his vision alone, completely seperate from his OL, definitely leaves a lot to be desired at times.

As of right now his numbers show he's relatively average, and that may even be being generous.  His YPC, which is the most important stat for a volume RB, is straight garbage.  He appears to be a back that only puts up number because of workload.  He appears to be back with limited capability in the pass game.

That's what the numbers show though, which is not only what I'm going off of.  I actually think he's better than his numbers, and have tried to factor in OL play and playcalling.  That's why I consider him to be pretty good.

I know people think I just go off his numbers and don't factor in line play but that's not really the truth.  If I was going off numbers alone I'd have him ranked way, way lower than someone like Chris Carson but I don't.  I think they're pretty comparable backs, with a slight edge actually going to Mixon.

Maybe if you put Mixon behind another OL he immediately transforms into 1,400, 5.0 YPC. 12 TD, 500 yards receiving guy.  But until I actually see it I'm not just going to elevate up into an entirely different class of running back.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

So you said a lot based on PFF's evaluations and said nothing about what I asked. Not shocked.

[Daymack]

(03-26-2021, 06:45 PM)Whatever Wrote: He didn't look average during the regular season or in those two playoff games he won to get to the SB, did he?

Well, yes he did look very average against Cleveland.  Remember they barely won that game and the backup QB had to come in and make a big play to be able to win that game and only scored 22 points .  Also remember he had his starting Pro-Bowl left tackle until the end of the Buffalo game.   You can't deny that even Mahomes is not effective when his offensive line is not holding up.

[Wes Mantooth]

(03-26-2021, 08:34 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: So you said a lot based on PFF's evaluations and said nothing about what I asked. Not shocked.

You insinuated the reason Mixon's numbers aren't very impressive is because he hasn't run behind a decent line.

I provided you an example of an elite back (top 5), who produced elite numbers behind a shitty OL.  And believe me, there's plenty of more examples of other elite backs putting up elite numbers behind below average lines.

[Frank Booth]

(03-26-2021, 09:31 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You insinuated the reason Mixon's numbers aren't very impressive is because he hasn't run behind a decent line.

I provided you an example of an elite back (top 5), who produced elite numbers behind a shitty OL.  And believe me, there's plenty of more examples of other elite backs putting up elite numbers behind below average lines.

Pff can be misleading

Pff isn’t the football bible

[EatonFan]

(03-26-2021, 02:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We get Sewell I think now, great news.

Let's hope not.  I'd rather have Pitts or Chase.

[Big_Ern]

(03-26-2021, 06:56 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Not only Fisher, but their other pro bowl tackle on the right side was out as well.

No wonder the chiefs couldn’t move the ball

For sure, but I think he missed more than just the sb

[BrownAssClown]

A few observations....Dolphins and Eagles did good today, whomever is running the 49ers' better pray that the number three pick is a home run. Enough about those teams though, I think today's draft movements put our Bengal's in the catbird seat. The first four picks could very well be QB's., yes even Atlanta's pick. The Falcons restructured Ryan's contract for cap reasons not necessarily to keep him long term.

I think we may have our choice at five with Pitts, Chase and Sewell being there for us. If they are, Sewell would still be my pick, then Pitts or Chase. It's a rare year that I would be happy with any one of them at five. Sewell is not the flashy pick, but I'm a big believer in building the trenches and keeping Burrow as safe as possible. When I see Pitts, I think how valuable a good TE can be to a team, like Kittle is to San Fran and Kelce is to KC. I wouldn't be upset with Chase either, the best WR prospect in the draft and has a history with Burrow.

Choices, choices, choices!....and if we can trade Gio for an additional mid to late (4th or 5th round) pick all the better. Should be fun to see how it unfolds for us! WhoDey!

[*psychdoctor*]

Dolphins look good but a few years from now, they could regret this ostensible suave move if they missed on Tua.

If I were the Bengals, I would trade back with Panthers and get extra 2 and 5th rounder and draft Slater or whoever is studly. I know everyone wants Sewell, I think the Bengals are not "Sewell" away from being competitive, they need those extra picks. With that Said, if the Bengals draft Sewell they should let him play LG because he is fast and can pull. They still need a blazing WR, Backer, DE. A lot of needs on this team.

[Whatever]

(03-26-2021, 06:48 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Lmao this post. So naive

Ok look at the chiefs 2 seasons ago. 2 elite options. Everyone else is meh. Sammy Watkins is an  average number 2 who can’t stay healthy.

Tyler Boyd is an ELITE slot receiver. Ask Tom Brady how important Wes Welker was. Chris Godwin is a terrific slot receiver

John Brown was horrific last season. Don’t give me John Brown lmaoo

And when John brown was healthy in 2020, HE STUNK

Beasley had his best year because Josh Allen is a monster. Simple as that, and the bills have poor weapons. Diggs is a top receiver, and that’s pretty much it. Gabriel Davis isn’t very good, and neither is Dawson Knox.

Why do we have posters in this board who are severely underrating Boyd and Higgins? This is ridiculous

The Chiefs still had 2 ELITE weapons.  We still have 0.  You can get by with an average #2 and young guys that can stretch the field if you have 2 elite weapons to build around and draw attention away from the other guys.  

Elite my ass.  Welker was a 4 time All Pro, 5 time Pro Bowler, and a 3 time league receptions leader.  Godwin is a former All Pro and Pro Bowler.  How many times has Boyd been an All Pro?  How many Pro Bowls has he made?  If he's elite, has he ever made the NFL Top 100 voted on by the players?  Because he's not elite, that's why.  Nobody that isn't a Bengals fan is going to say he's elite.  The guy was 89th in yards/target this year.  That Green Bay supporting cast you were bagging on has 4 guys with better yards/target than Boyd.  The Bills have 5, including John Brown, who you claim "STUNK.". If he stunk, explain to me why he was more productive with his targets than Boyd.  KC also has 5, including Watkins.  

Allen is a monster?  He had a 67.9 passer rating as a rookie and an 85.3 last year.  Amazing what actually getting a guy a legitimate #1 WR will do for him instead of this "We have #1 WR's at home" crap.

And let's look at that Bills OL, shall we?  At LT, Dion Dawkins, a 2nd round pick with a 78.1 PFF grade.  At LG, Jon Feliciano, a 4th round pick of the Raiders that was a backup before signing with the Bills with a 64.9 PFF grade.  At C, Mitch Morse, a 2nd round pick from KC with a 65.8 grade.  At RG, Cody Ford, a 2nd round pick with a 53.8 grade.  At RT, Daryl Williams, a 4th round pick of the Panthers that bounced back from a horrid 56.1 grade in '19 to grade 79.4.  No first round picks, just a couple of 2nd rounders and some B/C tier FA's.  

[SErebel11]

I keep seeing plug and play OL guys being mentioned particularly in later rounds. Here are the grades of the 2020 draft class.
Expecting a rookie to be really good their first season and not be a liability on the OL particularly in pass protection is not ideal especially on the IOL. The last column is offensive snaps taken.

[Whatever]

(03-26-2021, 09:13 PM)Daymack Wrote: Well, yes he did look very average against Cleveland.  Remember they barely won that game and the backup QB had to come in and make a big play to be able to win that game and only scored 22 points .  Also remember he had his starting Pro-Bowl left tackle until the end of the Buffalo game.   You can't deny that even Mahomes is not effective when his offensive line is not holding up.

Any QB is better if their OL holds up.  However, making it to the SB basically playing 2 backup OL all year is a great accomplishment.

The thing people are missing is Burrow was blitzed 138 times in 10 games and was on pace to be the 2nd most blitzed QB in the league.  Mahomes was blitzed 141 in 15 games.  Even with a weakened OL, teams were scared of blitzing them because of those offensive weapons.  The Bengals have nobody anybody really fears, so teams can bring blitzes all day.  

[Frank Booth]

(03-26-2021, 11:50 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Chiefs still had 2 ELITE weapons.  We still have 0.  You can get by with an average #2 and young guys that can stretch the field if you have 2 elite weapons to build around and draw attention away from the other guys.  

Elite my ass.  Welker was a 4 time All Pro, 5 time Pro Bowler, and a 3 time league receptions leader.  Godwin is a former All Pro and Pro Bowler.  How many times has Boyd been an All Pro?  How many Pro Bowls has he made?  If he's elite, has he ever made the NFL Top 100 voted on by the players?  Because he's not elite, that's why.  Nobody that isn't a Bengals fan is going to say he's elite.  The guy was 89th in yards/target this year.  That Green Bay supporting cast you were bagging on has 4 guys with better yards/target than Boyd.  The Bills have 5, including John Brown, who you claim "STUNK.". If he stunk, explain to me why he was more productive with his targets than Boyd.  KC also has 5, including Watkins.  

Allen is a monster?  He had a 67.9 passer rating as a rookie and an 85.3 last year.  Amazing what actually getting a guy a legitimate #1 WR will do for him instead of this "We have #1 WR's at home" crap.

And let's look at that Bills OL, shall we?  At LT, Dion Dawkins, a 2nd round pick with a 78.1 PFF grade.  At LG, Jon Feliciano, a 4th round pick of the Raiders that was a backup before signing with the Bills with a 64.9 PFF grade.  At C, Mitch Morse, a 2nd round pick from KC with a 65.8 grade.  At RG, Cody Ford, a 2nd round pick with a 53.8 grade.  At RT, Daryl Williams, a 4th round pick of the Panthers that bounced back from a horrid 56.1 grade in '19 to grade 79.4.  No first round picks, just a couple of 2nd rounders and some B/C tier FA's.  

Take All pros and pro bowls with a grain of salt since we know bengals get snubbed all the time, so don’t bring that crap in here. That’s like saying Whitworth wasn’t great from 2007-2013 because he didn’t make a pro bowl or all pro.

Yes, Boyd is an ELITE slot receiver.

Boyd was 7th in the league in receptions before Burrow got injured. Higgins was on pace for 1200+ yards. Of course their production dropped once the back ups came in. Higgins and Boyd were dealing with back ups playing behind the worst line in the league

You brushing off Boyd and Higgins is just beyond disrespectful and silly.

Listen, I pay more attention to football than you.

Referencing pff has already been established as a joke, and must be taken with a grain of salt.

You paid 0 attention to the bills in 2020. That’s all I can tell you.

Allen had Brown in 2019 when Brown was still good, it’s just that Allen completely improved in 2020 including his pocket presence and accuracy. Don’t give all the credit to Diggs. He’s the only real weapon they have

Green Bay has the best WR in the league and... Valdez scantling? That dude stinks. He’ll catch a long touchdown from Rodgers once every 3 games.. Good deep threat I suppose, but he’s not all that. Rodgers makes him. That other receiver they have is OK but he’s injured constantly. The TE Tonyan is good

But keep referencing pff to cover the fact that you don’t watch enough football. Boyd and Higgins is one of the better wr combos in the league, and a QB like Burrow makes them better.

Just like how Allen makes Diggs and Beasley better. Just like Rodgers makes Tonyan better. Just like Mahomes makes demarcus robinson better

Now go to sleep