Sewell vs Chase Civil War
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Sewell vs Chase Civil War
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04-02-2021, 08:29 PM
(04-02-2021, 12:10 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Does it really? I don't know who did your sig but Sewell is #58. Putting #78 on him is a sacrilege. ![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png) "The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
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04-02-2021, 09:06 PM
(04-02-2021, 08:23 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The smart money is on Sewell, then a WR in the 2nd, or even double dip and then WR in the 3rd. I get that and it certainly is hard to pass up on the guy who had chemistry with Burrow or the TE who is a freak. If I had any confidence in anyone on that OL to be the Whit, or Willie or Munoz type that was able to dominate and make the whole line better, I'd be all in on Chase or Pitts. Just really want that Alpha on the line that we desperately need. ![[Image: bengals08-1-800small.jpg]](https://i.ibb.co/MRz4cC9/bengals08-1-800small.jpg)
04-02-2021, 09:07 PM
(04-02-2021, 07:09 PM)bengaloo Wrote: No need to be sorry. I have the game DVR'd and have watched it a bunch of times, specifically to watch the OL. It was the first game Price played C in a couple years and also the first time we saw Adeniji and Spain, so it was always of interest to me. It was also an excellent game! I have gamepass and watched it the other day. First half he was really bad in passpro. Second half he was much better. By much better, i mostly mean he wasn't getting knocked off his base off the snap. But he did play better the 2nd half. In 2018 when he split the year with Trey, he was actually in the top 10 in least amount of pressures. The guy has shown himself capable of keeping people off the QB for the most part. I'd take any grade with a grain of salt, but he's deserved every horrendous passpro grade he's received. "The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
04-02-2021, 09:09 PM
(04-02-2021, 01:32 PM)Whatever Wrote: Here's an interesting take from Colts OL coach Kevin Mawae about shifting guys around positions on the OL. If Mawae sounds familiar, he was an 8 time All Pro C with the Jets. The thing is what Mawae says is correct to players who went through life playing nothing but tackle(like Jonah) but so many have played the guard position for a year or two before moving to the tackle position in college. Sewell played exclusively at guard his HS career and went to his first camp as a guard. It was later in camp that they got the idea that he should be their LT. Fred Johnson didn’t play tackle until late in college. He skill set is primarily at the guard position which is funny that a small sample size last year has convinced many on here that tackle is his best position. Go figure. So most prospects have either plenty of tape showing what they can do as guard. With some, they have certain skillsets which strongly suggest guard would be more than feasible. To me, switching between right hand down to left hand down is more of a challenge.
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04-02-2021, 09:11 PM
(04-02-2021, 09:06 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I get that and it certainly is hard to pass up on the guy who had chemistry with Burrow or the TE who is a freak. I think the only difference between us (in the willingness to take Chase) is that i'm assuming Jonah will straighten out and be there for the next decade, and you're not so sure. "The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
04-02-2021, 09:13 PM
(04-02-2021, 09:06 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I get that and it certainly is hard to pass up on the guy who had chemistry with Burrow or the TE who is a freak. Those 2 players look like a faster Anquan Boldin and Jimmy Graham (Saints version). Believe me. I'd love to have them if our line was even in decent shape. If we took one and passed on Sewell though, I just won't be able to stop myself from thinking we made a mistake. I wish I felt differently, tbh. A tackle isn't a fun player to take or watch.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
04-02-2021, 09:13 PM
(04-02-2021, 04:19 PM)tms Wrote: I think we overstate the so-called "depth" of this OL class. We assume that these guys will be available later. That is not true. By passing on Sewell, we are also passing on RSlater, CDarrisaw, TJenkins, AVT and a few others, because unless we trade down there's no way to get them either. Likewise, there promises to be a run on WR early. According to the current major mocks at PFF, PFN, TDN, NFLN, Kiper, McShay, I have 8-10 OL projected to go by 38 (JMayfield, CHumphrey, ALeatherwood on the brink) and 7-9 WR (KToney, TMarshall and EMoore). When you consider all the quality tackle prospects together with the equal quality IOL prospects, getting a high quality lineman. is an easy ask for pick 38 IMO. 
04-02-2021, 09:24 PM
(04-02-2021, 08:29 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't know who did your sig but Sewell is #58. Putting #78 on him is a sacrilege. I just found it on the internet, I mostly added it to counter the chase profile pics lol
04-02-2021, 09:25 PM
(04-02-2021, 09:11 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I think the only difference between us (in the willingness to take Chase) is that i'm assuming Jonah will straighten out and be there for the next decade, and you're not so sure. Truth. But even if Jonah does straighten out, would be nice to see Williams and Sewell as bookends on the line for the next 8 to 10. (04-02-2021, 09:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Those 2 players look like a faster Anquan Boldin and Jimmy Graham (Saints version). You and me both. Especially if Burrow ends up hurt again and we see Sewell pancaking guys every week. I just keep picturing Chase in round 1, and some defender falling out of 1 and the team just falling in love and taking him... or they go WR in one and then take the TE out of Penn State in two with the belief Pollack will fix the line. 
04-02-2021, 10:20 PM
(04-02-2021, 09:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Those 2 players look like a faster Anquan Boldin and Jimmy Graham (Saints version). I think Pitts is much closer to Waller than Graham. 
04-03-2021, 12:06 AM
If it comes to Chase or Sewell especially in todays brand of football the choice is Sewell, both look like great prospects, neither played this year so we just have to assume they will maintain their outstanding performance before this past year. I don't take great stock in pro days since their is so much more in football than testing and neither had any red flags in their pro day so that was good. So why Sewell really three key points
1. Top end Tackles are more valued in today's game than WRs especially since QBs are throwing so much more now and running more so protecting them in pass and RPO is more important 2. And with the spread offense and RPO concept coming into the league more and more, spreading the ball around is becoming more common and true #1 WRs have been dilulated. I posted few weeks ago the decrease over the past decade of big numbers from top Wrs and the big increase in those #2/3 Wrs gaining in TDs, Yards and Receptions. 3. From the standpoint right now looking at 2022 draft, there is no tackle that is valued where Sewell is now.. the chance of taking a prospected generational tackle is more rare than a prospected generational WR.
04-03-2021, 01:33 PM
(04-02-2021, 09:25 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: You and me both. Especially if Burrow ends up hurt again and we see Sewell pancaking guys every week. I could easily see the Bengals thinking Reiff + Pollack = line fixed. It'd be the same half-baked approach they've given us for years. I was hoping Burrow going down would be the wake up call they needed. We'll see. I get that some people don't like that there's only one answer to some of us. They're trying to paint that as not being objective or being unreasonable. In 99% of situations and drafts, I'd agree. Not this time though. When you've had an o-line problem for 5 years, your stud QB just wasted his rookie season getting clobbered, and you find yourself with an opportunity to take a "generational" Tackle in the following draft? You pull the trigger. There are other options...but don't overthink this. Unless some team offers a Ricky Williams-like offer for that 5 pick, which I don't think will happen.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
04-03-2021, 02:02 PM
(04-03-2021, 01:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I could easily see the Bengals thinking Reiff + Pollack = line fixed. It'd be the same half-baked approach they've given us for years. I was hoping Burrow going down would be the wake up call they needed. We'll see. How many.different things went against the oline in 2020 This oline had the following happen last year 1. Losing starting XSF for half the season. 2. Losing Jonah for last 6 games 3. Having the worst RT in the AFC North And a bottom 5 RT. 4. The coaching staff giving Jordan a LG job. 5. The worst oline coach in the business 6. ZT having a pass heavy run ratio. 7. Turner not having this oline prepared on Sundays This oline could never establish a identity in 2020. Wanna know why the Cleveland Browns made the playoffs Their oline was healthy all year. It had 5 guys that were getting cohesive week to week. Alot of the things that ailed this oline in 2020 has been Addressed already. 
04-03-2021, 02:19 PM
(04-03-2021, 01:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I could easily see the Bengals thinking Reiff + Pollack = line fixed. It'd be the same half-baked approach they've given us for years. I was hoping Burrow going down would be the wake up call they needed. We'll see. I haven't really gotten into the whole Sewell vs Chase debate other than to say I don't think there's a wrong choice. If they take Sewell, that's awesome...but they better find a couple of good WR's, with one of them being a guy who can play outside and get downfield, giving Burrow a legit 3rd option other than Higgins and Boyd. If they take Chase, that's great too, but they better grab a couple of o-lineman as well, and one of them needs to be in the 2nd where there will be line talent available that will be to help year 1, whether it's T/G or C. I would love to have Sewell, but I think there are other ways to address the o-line in the draft. I would love to have Chase, but I think there are other options that can help later on. I guess my point is, I think they're in a great position and it would be really hard to mess this up. No matter which guy they take, assuming they don't trade out, they have an opportunity to have a great draft and improve this team in a big way. Hell, if the Falcons take a QB or trade out, and Pitts is there at 5...I think I might prefer him over Sewell and Chase. He is an insane talent - who is capable of doing so many different things and giving an offense so many different options - and it's hard not to envision what Burrow could do with Pitts, Boyd and Higgins. 
04-03-2021, 02:57 PM
(04-03-2021, 02:02 PM)impactplaya Wrote: How many.different things went against the oline in 2020 I respect this logic, but it can also be argued that what they've done this offseason is like polishing a turd. Until they get new equipment under the hood, they're still driving a lemon. And I think that we as sports fans ascribe injuries to bad luck too often. Durability is a skill. Teams need guys who've proven their bodies can withstand the rigors of football. For example, I'm not encouraged that Jonah's suffered a shoulder and a knee before he's even played 10 NFL games. It doesn't bode well. As long as we're building around guys like that, we need to at least give ourselves some margin for error. At the moment we have virtually none.
04-03-2021, 04:14 PM
(04-03-2021, 02:02 PM)impactplaya Wrote: How many.different things went against the oline in 2020 This reminds me of all those years where people blamed the playoff losses on an injury to this guy, or that guy throwing 2 picks, or this guy fumbling the ball. At some point you just have to recognize the common issue: We had one Head Coach who was 0-forever in the playoffs. Here, we've lacked talent on the line for 5 years. We never replaced guys like Whit and Zeitler with equal talent. We kept fumbling around with backup level players like XSF and BJ Finney in free agency. We plugged in players who fell in the draft like Ogbuehi, Fisher and Bodine. We tried UDFA's like Alex Redmond. It's time to stop taking the Dollar General approach to finding o-linemen. (04-03-2021, 02:19 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I haven't really gotten into the whole Sewell vs Chase debate other than to say I don't think there's a wrong choice. They can have a good draft even if the skip Sewell. I agree you there. That said...it'll be risky to do so. We don't know who will be available in the 2nd. The guy we want to target there could be plucked before we pick. There could be run on linemen. We just don't know. Hence why I say you address (by far) our biggest need with who is also (arguably) the BPA at #5. Also, taking linemen in rounds 2-4 is something we've been doing, and it hasn't worked out. We need speed on the outside, but we don't need another 1000 yard guy. Higgins and Boyd can produce that, and Boyd is paid to produce that. We need a speed guy who can get around 700 yards and take the top off the defense. A lot of guys can do that, not just Chase. Using the 5th pick on Chase for that is kinda like saying you need a car to commute to work and buying a Maserati....when you have a hole in your roof that you patch with duct tape again. We're not going to agree here, and that's fine. Hopefully if we do take Chase, they finally hit on some linemen in rounds 2-5. It's possible. Eventually we'll get a winning lottery ticket. I hope.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
04-03-2021, 04:45 PM
(04-03-2021, 04:14 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This reminds me of all those years where people blamed the playoff losses on an injury to this guy, or that guy throwing 2 picks, or this guy fumbling the ball. At some point you just have to recognize the common issue: We had one Head Coach who was 0-forever in the playoffs. When it comes to protecting Burrow, there's no doubt that the line is big priority. I would argue that finding a legit option to play opposite Higgins (and provide a downfield threat / be able tp step up in case of an injury) is extremely important as well... or in the case of Pitts, someone who can line up all over. Going back and watching all the sacks that Burrow took last year, the o-line was responsible for their share, no doubt...but coverage sacks were also a big problem. There were too many times where the receivers simply couldn't shake their guy or find a spot in the coverage, leading to Burrow getting sacked. That's why I think both OL and WR are very important. They have to address both areas with capable players that can provide Burrow with more time, a cleaner pocket, better separation and a more explosive 3rd option than simply a dump off to Gio or a 6 yard pass to Sample. If they can manage to do both, and this draft definitely provides a great shot at that...then Burrow's going to reap the benefits and have a lot more opportunities to work his magic. I know some are dead set on o-line first, and I'm cool with that if that's the direction they choose...but they need to come away with a couple of decent weapons after that pick...like maybe a Dyami Brown and Jaelon Darden. 
04-03-2021, 06:27 PM
(04-01-2021, 08:47 PM)Yogo Wrote: Historically, we are soooo bad at picking OLine. Wayyyy too risky waiting further down to draft another Ced, Fisher, Price. Just take the surefire thing like what we did with Andre Smith. To help the run and pass game, there's really no argument, Sewell > Chase. Understand this view completely. I just like Cosmi and Eichenberg a lot, maybe as much as Sewell and one of them should be available in the 2nd round. Pitts is who I want the most followed by Sewell and then Chase after the Pro Days. Sewell didn't disappoint which is what I was wondering about after a year off. If the Falcons take Pitts I am taking Sewell now but would be fine with Chase if we get a good Guard and Tackle in the 2nd to 4th rounds.
04-03-2021, 07:43 PM
(04-03-2021, 04:45 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: When it comes to protecting Burrow, there's no doubt that the line is big priority. I would argue that finding a legit option to play opposite Higgins (and provide a downfield threat / be able tp step up in case of an injury) is extremely important as well... or in the case of Pitts, someone who can line up all over. Going back and watching all the sacks that Burrow took last year, the o-line was responsible for their share, no doubt...but coverage sacks were also a big problem. There were too many times where the receivers simply couldn't shake their guy or find a spot in the coverage, leading to Burrow getting sacked. Man I really wish we would've just signed Golladay or another solid lineman...that would've made it an open and shut case for everyone. As it stands, I don't think separation with our WRs is as big a problem as the talent deficiency up front. That's not to say it isn't an issue at all. Again, I'll go back to "there aren't enough footballs to go around". We had 3 WRs with 100+ targets last year, but that was largely out of necessity because Mixon was hurt. If you have Chase, Higgins, Boyd and a healthy Mixon...somebody is going to get the squeeze. Probably Boyd if we have a balanced offense. Boyd has a cap hit of $9.8 million this year. If he sees his targets cut from 110 to say...70, he is no longer worth that figure. These are things you have to consider if you're on board with drafting Chase. A quick recap of positives vs negatives: Draft Sewell Positives: The OL will almost certainly be MASSIVELY improved with Pollack, Sewell and Reiff in the fold. No good player is going to get "squeezed". The need for WR is speed specific, not really about production, so it'll be easier to find that type of player later than "stud lineman". Negatives: Apparently, WR isn't as deep as OL in this draft. Someone will have to shift inside. Some see this as a positive because the interior is getting a good player (probably Reiff), but some will view this as a negative. Draft Chase Positives: Man would that WR core be stacked. If we find some quality IOL later, this offense could be a great show to watch. We'd have a WR that teams would have to plan for. Negatives: We're gambling with - objectively - our biggest need, which is on the line. Hoping a good IOL falls to us isn't a strat that has worked much for us in the last decade. Boyd (or Mixon) will get squeezed a bit from the offense, and they're 2 of our highest paid players. Maybe we could trade Boyd and fill his spot with a Golden Tate on the cheap? If we keep everyone and want to keep Boyd involved, Burrow will have to continue throwing 40+ times per game behind a Sewell-less o-line. Doesn't seem smart to me seeing the results from last season.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
04-03-2021, 08:29 PM
(04-03-2021, 07:43 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Man I really wish we would've just signed Golladay or another solid lineman...that would've made it an open and shut case for everyone. Good, well thought out post brother, with some very valid pro and cons. I'll say this...if I were the Bengals and were going to stay a 5...the only way I don't go Sewell is if the Falcons don't take Pitts. I'm a big Chase fan and think he would be a tremendous addition and won't be pissed at all if he's the pick...but IMO, if you decide to pass on Sewell, is has to be for the guy that can do a variety of things - TE, WR, outside, inside, vertical threat, red zone threat, etc. He's a guy that's going to be difficult to cover and game plan for, and would be a great multi-use weapon for Burrow. In a pure Sewell vs Chase decision, I would lean Sewell and if he's the choice I would try to grab a couple of receivers. I mentioned guys like Brown (who could be the vertical threat) or Darden (who could wreak havoc underneath or gadget type plays). I would also look at a guy like Josh BB, who has all the talent you want in a WR, but still needs some development. If they do take Chase or Pitts, I really like a guy like Eichenberg, who should be there at 38. He can start day 1 at RT or at G, and will be solid as hell. Guys like Leatherwood and Radunz could also be very good possibilities. There's also guys like Carman and Davis, and the C's as well. Basically, I just think this is a very good year to have options for the o-line and receivers. I think they can improve the line and the receiving corps, regardless of who goes first.
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