Sewell vs Chase Civil War

[bengaloo]

I saw this video on the sidebar of youtube, the recommended vids or whatever, and clicked on it. Never seen this guy before, but he brings up some good points about the Sewell vs Chase debate. Its definitely worth a watch. I wonder if this guy is on the forum here. 

[Bilbo Saggins]

(04-02-2021, 09:11 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I think the only difference between us (in the willingness to take Chase) is that i'm assuming Jonah will straighten out and be there for the next decade, and you're not so sure. 

Sounds like the same logic that they apply to drafting an injured guy in the first round year after year after year...

The Chiefs had some excellent tackles who couldn't stay on the field for the Super Bowl. Now those tackles are kept off of the field for the Chiefs permanently. The Bills went and signed Kroft when he was a FA. He was hurt, got injured again, and he is no longer employed by the Buffalo Bills. Do those teams have no idea what they're doing? 

[Nicomo Cosca]

Didn’t want to start yet another Chase vs Sewell thread, but I just watched a video with one of the better arguments for Chase I’ve seen since the Civil War debate, so I figured I’d just put it in this one.

The WAR numbers they cite for the most valuable OT (Trent Williams) vs the most valuable WR (Devante Adams) were particularly interesting.

https://youtu.be/32-6A44jbTI

[shanebo]

@ Bengaloo and Nicomo - excellent videos, very informative. Reps to you both.

I'm firmly entrenched in the Sewell camp, mainly because it opens up the rest of the draft for us. If we take Chase at 5, we essentially have to take OL in the second round -- IMO, a few of the best OTs (Leatherwood, Mayfield, Jenkins) should be there in 2, but after that, you're looking at interior linemen and OT prospects at best. If we take Sewell, however, we can go BPA in 2 (hoping someone drops like Tee last year).

Also, one of the videos noted that the over/under on OL taken in Rd 1 was 6.5, but 4.5 for WR. So they're expecting a run on OL, putting us at risk of not getting a top OL in 2.

But I see the flip side as well. If we ended up with Chase in 1 and Leatherwood in 2, I'd be happy. BTW, I read somewhere that Leatherwood -- who is widely considered to be the 6-7 best OL prospect in this draft -- is already better than Jonah Williams ...

[Big Boss]

I'm honestly happy with either one, but Chase comes with a caveat. If we take Chase and then don't address O-Line until Round 4 or later, I'll have a blood clot.

[shanebo]

One more point ... if we go Chase in Rd 1, I'd be OK with quite a few OL in 2 -- would love Leatherwood, Mayfield, Jenkins, Vera-Tucker, or Eichenberg, but would also be fine with Carman, Cosmi, Dickerson, Davis, Humphrey, maybe even Radunz, Smith, or Brown.

BUT if we go Sewell in 1, the only WRs I'd take in 2 are Bateman or Marshall. I don't want to waste any more high picks on frail, sub-6' WRs like Eskridge or the Moores. (Exception if Waddle is available, but we all know that ain't happening.) Plenty of those guys will be around later in the draft (Rodgers, Atwell, Darden, Newsome, Smith, Felton, etc.). Even then, I'd prefer a bigger guy like Collins, Surratt, etc.

[shanebo]

(04-14-2021, 11:14 AM)Big Boss Wrote: I'm honestly happy with either one, but Chase comes with a caveat.  If we take Chase and then don't address O-Line until Round 4 or later, I'll have a blood clot.

Agree 100%.  My fist will be through the TV.

[Burma]

You know what, to heck with it. Get both. Offer Miami our 2nd in 2021 and 1st in '22, '23. Assuming these guys pan out, those first should be mid to late 20s.

#5. Sewell
#6. Chase
3rd. Meinerz

and I am feeling pretty good about the situation.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Nice vid Bengaloo. Hard to disagree with what that dude said. On the Sewell train again lol

[3wt]

(04-14-2021, 12:18 PM)Burma Wrote: You know what, to heck with it.  Get both.  Offer Miami our 2nd in 2021 and 1st in '22, '23. Assuming these guys pan out, those first should be mid to late 20s.

#5. Sewell
#6. Chase
3rd. Meinerz

and I am feeling pretty good about the situation.

I'm not going to lie, I was thinking the same thing.  Having those two on the same team would be transformational.  And if Meinerz was actually available in the 3rd we would have accomplished the 3 most important things Burrow needed this offseason.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-14-2021, 12:18 PM)Burma Wrote: You know what, to heck with it.  Get both.  Offer Miami our 2nd in 2021 and 1st in '22, '23. Assuming these guys pan out, those first should be mid to late 20s.

#5. Sewell
#6. Chase
3rd. Meinerz

and I am feeling pretty good about the situation.

(04-14-2021, 03:14 PM)3wt Wrote: I'm not going to lie, I was thinking the same thing.  Having those two on the same team would be transformational.  And if Meinerz was actually available in the 3rd we would have accomplished the 3 most important things Burrow needed this offseason.

I mean if these guys are future HOF'ers this would be fine with me. Just don't think Meinerz makes it past the Steelers in
the 2nd from what they are saying. They love Meinerz, bastids.

[Nicomo Cosca]

So they did Civil War part II tonight, and I have to say, Team Sewell really brought it this time. I called round 1 for Team Chase, but I think this one goes to Team Sewell. I was glad to see Matt Minich on team Chase though. I’ve always respected his opinion a lot. Anyway, it’s a good watch despite some technical difficulties. And as I keep saying, I don’t envy Duke Tobin right now lol.

https://youtu.be/KN42yDrZNr8

[tms]

(04-15-2021, 01:42 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: So they did Civil War part II tonight, and I have to say, Team Sewell really brought it this time. I called round 1 for Team Chase, but I think this one goes to Team Sewell. I was glad to see Matt Minich on team Chase  though. I’ve always respected his opinion a lot. Anyway, it’s a good watch despite some technical difficulties. And as I keep saying, I don’t envy Duke Tobin right now lol.

https://youtu.be/KN42yDrZNr8

So now we got Housh, Original Ocho Cinco (Tim McGee), Hue, Big Willie and Munoz all on the Sewell train. Plus pretty much every other player in a public position (e.g. Jones-Drew) that I've seen.

Honest question: is there a single football professional (i.e. non-couch potato like us) who's actually said they're for Chase? All I've seen are fans, pundits and analytics nerds. 

What an absolute travesty that would be. I'm not even kidding. That would be a new low. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-15-2021, 03:00 AM)tms Wrote: So now we got Housh, Original Ocho Cinco (Tim McGee), Hue, Big Willie and Munoz all on the Sewell train. Plus pretty much every other player in a public position (e.g. Jones-Drew) that I've seen.

Honest question: is there a single football professional (i.e. non-couch potato like us) who's actually said they're for Chase? All I've seen are fans, pundits and analytics nerds.

What an absolute travesty that would be. I'm not even kidding. That would be a new low. 

Taking a phenomenal player who is #1 at their position is in no way a travesty (regardless which one they go with). People are really going off the deep end with this stuff. It’s ONE PICK. To me a travesty would be trading back and losing out on a top 5 blue chip prospect and ending up without much to show for it (say a bunch of Billy Price, Drew Sample, type players).

But to answer the question in bold, Tony Pike made a good case for Chase in the first video they did. And even Willie was a little on the fence if we’re being honest.

[tms]

(04-15-2021, 03:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Taking a phenomenal player who is #1 at their position is in no way a travesty (regardless which one they go with). People are really going off the deep end with this stuff. It’s ONE PICK. To me a travesty would be trading back and losing out on a top 5 blue chip prospect and ending up without much to show for it (say a bunch of Billy Price, Drew Sample, type players).

But to answer the question in bold, Tony Pike made a good case for Chase in the first video they did. And even Willie was a little on the fence if we’re being honest.

It is a travesty if the only ones promoting your pick are armchair qbs and/or fantasy football diehards. I don't care what the position is. Those ppl are still lionizing Darius Heyward-Bey and Robert Gallery. 

As for Willie, I think that was just peer pressure. Everything he's said and posted since then heavily points toward the line, but being happy with Chase if that's how they choose to go. Which is common sense. He's a grown man.


And I'm sorry, god love him, but Tony Pike doesn't count. I'm still waiting on a name with legitimate NFL experience. Is there seriously not a single one?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-15-2021, 03:39 AM)tms Wrote: It is a travesty if the only ones promoting your pick are armchair qbs and/or fantasy football diehards. I don't care what the position is. Those ppl are still lionizing Darius Heyward-Bey and Robert Gallery. 

As for Willie, I think that was just peer pressure. Everything he's said and posted since then heavily points toward the line, but being happy with Chase if that's how they choose to go. Which is common sense. He's a grown man.


And I'm sorry, god love him, but Tony Pike doesn't count. I'm still waiting on a name with legitimate NFL experience. Is there seriously not a single one?

Well, that’s just silly. You asked for a non-fan, non-analytics guy (who I assure you spend a lot more time watching tape on these prospects than loosely connected former players and coaches do), and I gave you one. Tony Pike knows his stuff. There’s no reason to try and discredit him just because you disagree with what he’s saying.

[tms]

(04-15-2021, 03:53 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well, that’s just silly. You asked for a non-fan, non-analytics guy (who I assure you spend a lot more time watching tape on these prospects than loosely connected former players and coaches do), and I gave you one. Tony Pike knows his stuff. There’s no reason to try and discredit him just because you disagree with what he’s saying.

I'm not talking solely about the Jungle. I'm saying anyone anywhere in the country with legitimate NFL credentials and some name recognition. 

I mean, if the only guy out there is Tony Pike, that just proves my point. We got problems. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-15-2021, 03:58 AM)tms Wrote: I'm not talking solely about the Jungle. I'm saying anyone anywhere in the country with legitimate NFL credentials and some name recognition. 

I mean, if the only guy out there is Tony Pike, that just proves my point. We got problems. 

Jim Mora Jr

"What a great position to be in, but what a difficult position to be in," Mora said. "The depth of offensive line in the draft. That would lead me to where it led you and that's Ja'Marr Chase. When that guy gets the ball in his hands he's dynamic.
"I think that's the right way to go. Give Joe Burrow weapons. Give him weapons. There's gonna be some guys there [at 38] or package some things and come up [in the draft]. There's gonna be some guys there that are going to be pretty good offensive lineman, offensive tackles. Adequate guys that are going to develop into great players, so you gotta go get Chase."

[tms]

(04-15-2021, 04:04 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Jim Mora Jr

"What a great position to be in, but what a difficult position to be in," Mora said. "The depth of offensive line in the draft. That would lead me to where it led you and that's Ja'Marr Chase. When that guy gets the ball in his hands he's dynamic.
"I think that's the right way to go. Give Joe Burrow weapons. Give him weapons. There's gonna be some guys there [at 38] or package some things and come up [in the draft]. There's gonna be some guys there that are going to be pretty good offensive lineman, offensive tackles. Adequate guys that are going to develop into great players, so you gotta go get Chase."

That counts. That's all I wanted. Good job. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-15-2021, 04:14 AM)tms Wrote: That counts. That's all I wanted. Good job. 

Found another one for you.

If that’s the thinking then you pass, especially when there’s an elite pass catcher on the board (Pitts or Chase)

— Mitchell Schwartz (@MitchSchwartz71) April 14, 2021