The major monkey wrench in the plan

[*ochocincos*]

(04-04-2021, 07:34 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Bengals have 2 WRs and 2 starting EDs. At least 1 OL is needed and 2 would be optimal. I would assume they view LO as the #1 3T. 

I wouldn't touch the D until the 5th round. I'd be looking for 1WR, 2OL and a TE before i looked anywhere else. 

Don't make the assumption the Bengals don't feel they have their starting 5 OL for 2021 in Williams-Spain-Hopkins-XSF-Reiff.
It's possible whatever OL is drafted doesn't start all year.

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-05-2021, 01:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Don't make the assumption the Bengals don't feel they have their starting 5 OL for 2021 in Williams-Spain-Hopkins-XSF-Reiff.
It's possible whatever OL is drafted doesn't start all year.

I think there's a high probability that they think the oline is good with how it's configured now and adding Pollack back in.

I can easily see them taking Chase #1 and then going OL in rd2 then defense in rd3. 

[*ochocincos*]

(04-05-2021, 02:55 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I think there's a high probability that they think the oline is good with how it's configured now and adding Pollack back in.

I can easily see them taking Chase #1 and then going OL in rd2 then defense in rd3. 

Yep.
Here is who the projected starters are right now, and they may be "ok" with it.

QB - Burrow
RB - Mixon
TE - Uzomah/Sample
WR - Boyd (slot), Higgins, Tate
OT - Williams, Reiff
OG - Spain, XSF
C - Hopkins (Price until he's back)

DE - Hubbard, Hendrickson
DT - Reader, Ogunjobi
LB - Wilson, Pratt
CB - Waynes, Awuzie, Hilton (slot)
S - Bell, Bates

Out of that group, the players who need replaced most are (arguably) in order:
- Tate
- RG (Spain and XSF are both better fits at LG)
- LG
- TE? (This moves down if Uzomah looks like he did Week 1)

Then you have worry about future replacements/improvements for:
- RT
- 3T (based on Ogunjobi's performance and willingness to stay)
- LB (if Wilson and/or Pratt don't improve much)
- C
- LT? (depends on Williams staying healthy and improving)
- DE

[yang]

(04-05-2021, 03:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yep.
Here is who the projected starters are right now, and they may be "ok" with it.

QB - Burrow
RB - Mixon
TE - Uzomah/Sample
WR - Boyd (slot), Higgins, Tate
OT - Williams, Reiff
OG - Spain, XSF
C - Hopkins (Price until he's back)

DE - Hubbard, Hendrickson
DT - Reader, Ogunjobi
LB - Wilson, Pratt
CB - Waynes, Awuzie, Hilton (slot)
S - Bell, Bates

Out of that group, the players who need replaced most are (arguably) in order:
- Tate
- RG (Spain and XSF are both better fits at LG)
- LG
- TE? (This moves down if Uzomah looks like he did Week 1)

Then you have worry about future replacements/improvements for:
- RT
- 3T (based on Ogunjobi's performance and willingness to stay)
- LB (if Wilson and/or Pratt don't improve much)
- C
- LT? (depends on Williams staying healthy and improving)
- DE

I am going to say 99% of the board will disagree that Auden Tate is actually projected to be the starter and that the Bengals or anyone else feel that position doesn't need a massive upgrade over him.  Did you just omit it on accident?

[*ochocincos*]

(04-05-2021, 03:46 PM)yang Wrote: I am going to say 99% of the board will disagree that Auden Tate is actually projected to be the starter and that the Bengals or anyone else feel that position doesn't need a massive upgrade over him.  Did you just omit it on accident?

I listed Tate as the very first person to replace...

[yang]

(04-05-2021, 03:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I listed Tate as the very first person to replace...

oops, missed it. 

[BengalsRocker]

We're looking pretty weak at WR and TE if anyone goes down.

Offense needs to be top priority in this draft(duh).

I'm just worried that there's the potential to have a bunch of inexperienced O-linemen and BPAs that don't contribute to our offense.

Hope that's not the case.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-05-2021, 06:34 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: We're looking pretty weak at WR and TE if anyone goes down.

Offense needs to be top priority in this draft(duh).

I'm just worried that there's the potential to have a bunch of inexperienced O-linemen and BPAs that don't contribute to our offense.

Hope that's not the case.

If Hopkins isn't 100% for Week 1, Billy Price is the starting C.
If Spain or XSF go down (XSF has missed 23 games the last 3 years and at least 5 games in each) then Jordan is a starting G.
If Williams goes down (he has missed 22 out of 32 games, has only finished 8 games) then Fred Johnson or Adjeini is the starting T.

The OL which is already weak from a starting standpoint has huge health red flags even on the couple of guys who are average/above average players.

Even Reiff hasn't played 16 games since 2015, and he's only here for 1 year. 

OL early and often needs to be the plan in this draft.

[impactplaya]

(04-05-2021, 08:54 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If Hopkins isn't 100% for Week 1, Billy Price is the starting C.
If Spain or XSF go down (XSF has missed 23 games the last 3 years and at least 5 games in each) then Jordan is a starting G.
If Williams goes down (he has missed 22 out of 32 games, has only finished 8 games) then Fred Johnson or Adjeini is the starting T.

The OL which is already weak from a starting standpoint has huge health red flags even on the couple of guys who are average/above average players.

Even Reiff hasn't played 16 games since 2015, and he's only here for 1 year. 

OL early and often needs to be the plan in this draft.

You think Jordan makes the final.53 man roster?

[BengalsRocker]

(04-05-2021, 08:54 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If Hopkins isn't 100% for Week 1, Billy Price is the starting C.
If Spain or XSF go down (XSF has missed 23 games the last 3 years and at least 5 games in each) then Jordan is a starting G.
If Williams goes down (he has missed 22 out of 32 games, has only finished 8 games) then Fred Johnson or Adjeini is the starting T.

The OL which is already weak from a starting standpoint has huge health red flags even on the couple of guys who are average/above average players.

Even Reiff hasn't played 16 games since 2015, and he's only here for 1 year. 

OL early and often needs to be the plan in this draft.

I wouldn't care if they traded down for a low 1st round OT and picked up more 2nd/3rd picks.

I'm just really concerned that in the process of plugging holes they strike out and get no value from the draft.

Quantity over quality.  Getting players to get players that might not contribute not only this upcoming season... but at all.

They might be in a better position to grab the obvious plug & play picks and get some serviceable guys from late FA cuts.

I'm in the minority that wished they would have kept Hart at a lower price tag for backup.

I'm not really convinced that our Front Office will be able to fix the line solely through draft picks...  call me crazy.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-05-2021, 09:01 PM)impactplaya Wrote: You think Jordan makes the final.53 man roster?

Yeah. $972k cap hit, $244k dead cap hit if he's cut. Plus Spain and XSF don't have great track records of staying fully healthy. Spain has missed multiple games in 4/6 seasons and XSF has missed multiple games in 5/7 seasons.

(04-05-2021, 10:19 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I wouldn't care if they traded down for a low 1st round OT and picked up more 2nd/3rd picks.

I'm just really concerned that in the process of plugging holes they strike out and get no value from the draft.

Quantity over quality.  Getting players to get players that might not contribute not only this upcoming season... but at all.

They might be in a better position to grab the obvious plug & play picks and get some serviceable guys from late FA cuts.

I'm in the minority that wished they would have kept Hart at a lower price tag for backup.

I'm not really convinced that our Front Office will be able to fix the line solely through draft picks...  call me crazy.

I would. Get Sewell at 5 because 1 Whitworth is better than 2 Bolings.

Besides, I don't think there's a lot of difference between a low 1st round OL and an early 2nd round OL this year. So just get Sewell AND an early 2nd OL.

Then personally, I would trade up from the 3rd round to the late-ish 2nd round (52-57?) and pick whichever 2nd round OL slipped to there, because likely 1 or 2 will. You can never have enough quality OL.

I doubt they'll be able to fix the line solely through draft picks as well, but they made it pretty clear the last two FA periods that they're not going to fix it through FA... so....

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(04-06-2021, 12:26 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yeah. $972k cap hit, $244k dead cap hit if he's cut. Plus Spain and XSF don't have great track records of staying fully healthy. Spain has missed multiple games in 4/6 seasons and XSF has missed multiple games in 5/7 seasons.


I would. Get Sewell at 5 because 1 Whitworth is better than 2 Bolings.

Besides, I don't think there's a lot of difference between a low 1st round OL and an early 2nd round OL this year. So just get Sewell AND an early 2nd OL.

Then personally, I would trade up from the 3rd round to the late-ish 2nd round (52-57?) and pick whichever 2nd round OL slipped to there, because likely 1 or 2 will. You can never have enough quality OL.

I doubt they'll be able to fix the line solely through draft picks as well, but they made it pretty clear the last two FA periods that they're not going to fix it through FA... so....

Whitworth was pick number 55 which as you say is late-ish in the second round. He was the 9th O-lineman off the board.

Clint Boling was pick number 101 which was early fourth round. He was the 19th O-lineman off the board.

I'd be delighted if we could get a Whitworth and a Boling with picks 38 and 111. 

[Hammerstripes]

(04-02-2021, 08:53 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Considering we just signed our 4th DE the other day and it is Amani Bledsoe I think you... trade back in 1 so we have more early picks and fill all our needs with top prospects

No, you don't trade back in round 1 - unless you are only moving down a couple of spots.

This team isn't full of holes.  They have a decent NFL starter at pretty much every position, the theme now is to add great players.

There are usually 3-5 elite players in every draft.  This year there are 4 - Lawrence, Pitts, Sewell and Chase.  There's no reason to trade out of that spot and pass on one of those guys

[yang]

(04-02-2021, 08:06 PM)samhain Wrote: I feel like on either side of the so called "Civil War", the expected path in the draft is largely the same.  People who want Chase usually want an OL in 2.  People who want Sewell want a receiver in 2.  It has to be a WR and a OL in the first 2 rounds, the only x-factor is in what order.

It seems that as we near the draft, the possibility of a highly regarded pass rusher slipping to us in 2 grows.  Rousseau was once the guy that many thought was number 1 in terms of the position.  Now he's in apparent free fall.  Paye is dropping a bit, too.  Wrs like Marshall are rising.  A run on OL is expected.  There are only so many slots.  

What do you do if you're sitting there with the 5th pick in round 2 and one of these guys is still out there?

I brought this up in a recent thread.  I agree with Tobin that we are not pigeon-holed into doing anything.  If we take Chase in the first and have a top edge guy in the 2nd  like Basham or Rosseau then grab them.  I like that value of a DE at this spot.   I also think Oline talent will be available in the3rd and 4th round.   Chase/ Basham/ OT Christenson/  C- Josh Myers     off the top of my head and I am happy as a lark.    

[PDub80]

(04-02-2021, 11:44 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: but why mad.. an exceptional tackle is more important than an exceptional wr, since there are fewer of them plus #1 Wrs are becoming very watered down with the spread offense more and more plus  RPO's are becoming more and more common in NFL this has created a throw the ball around mentality and the old true #1s are not as valued as before.  This also has emphasised the tackle position even more with the increase in passing, just look at Top End FA tackles are commanding...

According to literally every football metric... and PFF, NO, an exceptional OT is NOT more important, nor harder to draft, than an exceptional WR.

A great Tackle or Guard, especially in THIS draft, will be availableilavle in rounds 2 & 3. NOT the same w WR.

Let's face it. The Bengals have 2 major needs: WR & O line. WR is wildly evident since they had next to ZERO threats ON the outside the last 3 seasons that AJ Green has stunk.

They NEED both spots. WR is the more shallow spot in this draft. THAT is where they should go w the first pick.

[JerseyDD09]

(04-02-2021, 10:26 PM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: If we go Sewell at 5, I'm not opposed to going Wyatt Davis, or Tucker (USC), or Dickerson at 38. Building a dominant OLine would be a good thing, would it not?

I remain on team Chase only because Malik Wright has reported that the Bengals won't consider taking Pitts. He could be wrong and I hope he is, but I am not going to be mad if we take Sewell. I just don't think it means that we then have to go WR in 2.  Going all in on the Oline would be fine with me,

Who is Malik Wright and how would he know? Is he in the debating room with the front office and coaches? Last I checked, no. So, anything you hear from outside right now is a smoke screen. 
The only person/s who knows what they're gonna do is Mike Brown and/or Duke Tobin. And they won't even know until they're on the clock. 

[Murdock2420]

(04-03-2021, 12:09 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The bold is not even remotely true. Look at the overpay the Giants just gave Kenny Golladay ($72 million for 4 years).

Top 5 WR salaries (per spotrac)

DeAndre Hopkins - $27,250,000
Julio Jones - $22,000,000
Keenan Allen - $20,025,000
Amari Cooper - $20,000,000
Michael Thomas - $19,250,000

Top 5 OT’s:

Trent Williams - $23,010,000
David Bakhitari - $23,000,000
Larry Tunsil - $22,000,000
Ronnie Stanley - $19,750,000
Kolton Miller - $18,005,000

Certainly seems like they’re still highly “valued” to me.

The craziest thing I see off that list is all that money... and one Championship ring on the list. 

[Murdock2420]

(04-06-2021, 05:48 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Whitworth was pick number 55 which as you say is late-ish in the second round. He was the 9th O-lineman off the board.

Clint Boling was pick number 101 which was early fourth round. He was the 19th O-lineman off the board.

I'd be delighted if we could get a Whitworth and a Boling with picks 38 and 111. 

Ben Cleveland in round 4. A guard out of... Georgia.

[Bmore Birds]

I really think Chase is the best non-QB in this draft and a much safer pick than Sewell. I'd take Chase over Sewell if I were the GM of any team.

That said, I don't understand why the Bengals would be pressed to take a WR in round two if they don't pick Chase. WRs are getting stronger and stronger every year and Higgins & Boyd are no slouches. Been following the top WRs heavily (obviously since I'm a Ravens fan) and after Chase, Smith, Waddle, Marshall & Bateman (maybe Toney) there's a drop off imo. If all those guys are gone by your second pick, the best value will be at another position.

[BURROWorBUST]

(04-08-2021, 09:12 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Who is Malik Wright and how would he know? Is he in the debating room with the front office and coaches? Last I checked, no. So, anything you hear from outside right now is a smoke screen. 
The only person/s who knows what they're gonna do is Mike Brown and/or Duke Tobin. And they won't even know until they're on the clock. 

You're right to question Malik. No doubt, but here's why I have faith in what he says. He's a journalist of sorts. He owns and runs his own online media operation. He's a smart young guy. You ought to check out some of his content. 

If you go back into what he was reporting back in the days leading up to free agency, he did break alot of stories that would later become official announcements from the Bengals organization. Some of us suspect that he does, in fact, have an inside source or two. 

Did he get the information about the Bengals not wanting to draft Pitts from that inside source? I don't know. But he's got a track record of being right and being right first.