Daniel Jeremiah - Building an OL from a DL coach perspective

[*ochocincos*]

Daniel Jeremiah had a chat with a DL coach about the topic of building an OL.
He said the takeaway is it's more important how good your worst starter is than how great your best guy is because DCs will call plays to take advantage of the weak link(s).

Interesting cha with DL coach today. We were discussing building an OL. This was our big takeaway- More important how good your worst guy is than how great your best guy is. Defenses attack your worst guy every week. You can improve your worst starters with 2nd & 3rd rd picks.

— Daniel Jeremiah (@MoveTheSticks) April 14, 2021

With this said, does this change your perspective in how the Bengals should approach the OL via the draft?

I guess I've always taken that approach, which is to address your weakest spot(s) first. In the case of the Bengals, it'd be to fix (at least) one guard position first. Then look for potential replacements to OT and C.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Nope, changes nothing. I have always said the Bengals need minimum 3 new starters this offseason. They still need 2 more, and apparently that has to come from the draft.

XSF/Spain/Hopkins are all guys that I would be okay with starting if they were your 5th best starter, but because there's 3 of them, it's a huge problem. Even 2 is too many out of 5 considering the fact that there's a near-certainty that there will be an injury on the OL at some point which would push that number back up to 3.

Always been my standpoint all offseason because I saw the same thing happen in the past with the Reds hitters when they had Peraza/Barnhart/Duvall/Schebler and before that (old) Phillips/Cozart/Barnhart/Duvall/Hamilton. None of those guys individually would break a team's lineup by being a starter. Even 2 of them would be okay (since we're talking 8 guys rather than an NFL OL's 5), but because the Reds consistently had 4 of those type of guys, it was unworkable (since you also had a pitcher hitting) since it meant the majority of the guys in the lineup were guys that were barely okay starter types.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

It is true, that is why you don't trot out the MJ Guards of the world out there. DC's and Defenders salivate and go after
these types and it makes your entire OL look like shit. And I know this is a deep OT class and we can get a good OT and
Guard in the 2nd to 4th rounds but I think Sewell would be an excellent Guard for us right off the bat too.

Still on the Sewell train but if we take Chase I am sure Pollack has been really studying on the guys that might be available
in the 2nd to 4th rounds for us. Just don't take anymore of those MJ types that cannot get low, low man wins.

[XenoMorph]

(04-14-2021, 04:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Daniel Jeremiah had a chat with a DL coach about the topic of building an OL.
He said the takeaway is it's more important how good your worst starter is than how great your best guy is because DCs will call plays to take advantage of the weak link(s).

Interesting cha with DL coach today. We were discussing building an OL. This was our big takeaway- More important how good your worst guy is than how great your best guy is. Defenses attack your worst guy every week. You can improve your worst starters with 2nd & 3rd rd picks.

— Daniel Jeremiah (@MoveTheSticks) April 14, 2021

With this said, does this change your perspective in how the Bengals should approach the OL via the draft?

I guess I've always taken that approach, which is to address your weakest spot(s) first. In the case of the Bengals, it'd be to fix (at least) one guard position first. Then look for potential replacements to OT and C.

draft good Linemen  find spots on the line for them.. I think at one point several years ago the patriots had 4 LT's (were LTs in college) on their ol lol

[Au165]

Another thread where people already firmly entrenched in their position can reaffirm their position. I can't wait to get to the 29th.

[2MinutesHate]

You know it really is a shame that we can't just pick Chase at 5 without repercussions.  However, we wouldn't even have the #5 pick if the OL wasn't such a huge mess.  Besides Reiff, all the same guys will be trotting back out there next season barring more FA/draft moves.

I think the Bengals have tried to take the shortcut with the OL for a few years now and it just hasn't worked.  With Browns just picking up Clowney today, the rest of the AFCN will be feasting on these same guys again.  Our problem at WR is by far smaller than our problem at G & C.
Hopkins may not even be ready and Price, well, enough said.

Could we just TRY to protect Burrow and run block for one year and see what happens?  Who knows?  Maybe it might rub off on the rest of the team?

[CJD]

(04-14-2021, 04:43 PM)Au165 Wrote: Another thread where people already firmly entrenched in their position can reaffirm their position. I can't wait to get to the 29th.

Yea, I am looking forward to the decision to be made so we can start from there. I flip back and forth between Sewell and Chase so many times that it's clear to me that I'd be happy with either. Turns out, having good olinemen is good and having good WRs is good. Who knew?

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2021, 04:43 PM)Au165 Wrote: Another thread where people already firmly entrenched in their position can reaffirm their position. I can't wait to get to the 29th.

I don't agree with your statement, as I'm not really firmly entrenched with any approach.
I am fine with any of Sewell, Chase, or Pitts being selected.
But if it's Sewell, they better find a way to get him into the starting lineup as a rookie and not have him sit for a year.

[Au165]

(04-14-2021, 05:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't agree with your statement, as I'm not really firmly entrenched with any approach.
I am fine with any of Sewell, Chase, or Pitts being selected.
But if it's Sewell, they better find a way to get him into the starting lineup as a rookie and not have him sit for a year.

It’s not really about you, just a prediction of where this thread is heading. We will see the same talking points rehashed by both sides as we do in every thread.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2021, 04:26 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Nope, changes nothing. I have always said the Bengals need minimum 3 new starters this offseason. They still need 2 more, and apparently that has to come from the draft.

XSF/Spain/Hopkins are all guys that I would be okay with starting if they were your 5th best starter, but because there's 3 of them, it's a huge problem. Even 2 is too many out of 5 considering the fact that there's a near-certainty that there will be an injury on the OL at some point which would push that number back up to 3.

Always been my standpoint all offseason because I saw the same thing happen in the past with the Reds hitters when they had Peraza/Barnhart/Duvall/Schebler and before that (old) Phillips/Cozart/Barnhart/Duvall/Hamilton. None of those guys individually would break a team's lineup by being a starter. Even 2 of them would be okay (since we're talking 8 guys rather than an NFL OL's 5), but because the Reds consistently had 4 of those type of guys, it was unworkable (since you also had a pitcher hitting) since it meant the majority of the guys in the lineup were guys that were barely okay starter types.

3 new starters at OL?
That's just flat out not going to happen. Not this year anyway.
One of Spain or XSF will start guaranteed.
I would argue only one spot is open right now for a new starter, and it's either LG or RG. I highly doubt the Bengals demote Hopkins this year. He's going to be the starter at C once he's recovered from his injury.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2021, 05:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: It’s not really about you, just a prediction of where this thread is heading. We will see the same talking points rehashed by both sides as we do in every thread.

Well that wasn't the intent of the thread at least lol.
The intent was to give perspective from someone on the defensive side.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-14-2021, 05:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't agree with your statement, as I'm not really firmly entrenched with any approach.
I am fine with any of Sewell, Chase, or Pitts being selected.
But if it's Sewell, they better find a way to get him into the starting lineup as a rookie and not have him sit for a year.

Same.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

Trade down. Draft Slater. Use extra draft pick to double dip at Oline and improve two spots along the line.

And the Bengals vs Browns is on NFL Network right now if anyone needs to be reminded how bad that line is.

Edited to add: Just watched Johnson get pancaked and Williams beat on the outside and both Dlineman fell into Burrows lower legs resulting in a penalty. Buckled Burrow’s right knee. Just a little foreshadowing of how Joe’s season would end.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-14-2021, 11:09 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Trade down. Draft Slater. Use extra draft pick to double dip at Oline and improve two spots along the line.

And the Bengals vs Browns is on NFL Network right now if anyone needs to be reminded how bad that line is.

If I could only utter one word from the Barkley Lounger, that summed up my opinion of the OL for the past few years?  Turrible..

[Shake n Blake]

(04-14-2021, 05:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't agree with your statement, as I'm not really firmly entrenched with any approach.
I am fine with any of Sewell, Chase, or Pitts being selected.
But if it's Sewell, they better find a way to get him into the starting lineup as a rookie and not have him sit for a year.

There is literally 0% chance Sewell would sit for a year, barring injury.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-14-2021, 11:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If I could only utter one word from the Barkley Lounger, that summed up my opinion of the OL for the past few years?  Turrible..

They’re gonna get Burrow Klinglered if they keep messin’ around.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-14-2021, 05:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't agree with your statement, as I'm not really firmly entrenched with any approach.
I am fine with any of Sewell, Chase, or Pitts being selected.
But if it's Sewell, they better find a way to get him into the starting lineup as a rookie and not have him sit for a year.

Since he opted out in 2020, I’d start him out at one of the OG spots his first season similar to Whitworth. With Reiff at RT, that’s two spots on the Oline which should be better. Transition him to one of the two OT spots next year.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

This was hard to watch after a defensive goal line stand.

Ah, crap, here’s the link https://youtu.be/BRKo7THUTi0

[fredtoast]

drafting a top O-lineman will fix the weakest link because the guys at the top will just move down.

No way we draft a top O-lineman just to bench one of the top O-linemen we have right now,

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-14-2021, 04:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Daniel Jeremiah had a chat with a DL coach about the topic of building an OL.
He said the takeaway is it's more important how good your worst starter is than how great your best guy is because DCs will call plays to take advantage of the weak link(s).

Interesting cha with DL coach today. We were discussing building an OL. This was our big takeaway- More important how good your worst guy is than how great your best guy is. Defenses attack your worst guy every week. You can improve your worst starters with 2nd & 3rd rd picks.

— Daniel Jeremiah (@MoveTheSticks) April 14, 2021

With this said, does this change your perspective in how the Bengals should approach the OL via the draft?

I guess I've always taken that approach, which is to address your weakest spot(s) first. In the case of the Bengals, it'd be to fix (at least) one guard position first. Then look for potential replacements to OT and C.

It doesn't change my approach, but it might open the eyes of the guys screaming how we need a tackle to protect Burrow.  No one wants to hear this but our pass protection, from the tackles, was at least average last year.  Probably middle of the pack.  The guard play, from a pass protection standpoint, was awful.  It improved when XSF and Spain were out there to CLOSE to average, but early in the season it was downright awful.

The Bengals need a beast at RG, and a strong, young talent to develop at RT.  Sure, I could use a center to push Hopkins as well, should a player like Humphrey fall all the way to our 3rd round pick, but I am not picking Sewell at #5.

The offensive line came pretty far last year.  Now you add Reiff, and most certainly a draft pick for RG, and the offensive line should be solid.  Give Burrow an elite weapon like Chase, and watch him serve up 30-burgers on a weekly basis.