Daniel Jeremiah - Building an OL from a DL coach perspective

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-15-2021, 12:25 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Not addressing my comment to you, just commenting on something that most people skim over in the "Sewell or Slater to Guard for one season" discussion. Johnson did indeed suck in his move to RG last season and many people use the "You can't expect Sewell or Slater to make a successful move to Guard" argument.

Bullshit.

Sewell and Slater are going to be top 5-15 picks and Johnson was a UFA already cut by another team. The talent level isn't even close by comparison. I'd move either to LG for a season before kicking them out to LT and move Williams to RT. I am not impressed with Williams at all. He got beat more often than the stats show because Burrow had already gotten rid of the ball many of the times or had already moved out of the pocket. I'm not calling Williams a bust at this point but he's far from a hit. He's about as good at LT as Big Willie was and they moved him to RT to flourish against the opponent's #2 pass rusher instead of getting blown up every week by the #1 pass rusher while moving backup RG Rod Jones to starting LT. I think that move would be best for Williams as a Bengal.

A little confused as to your point. I agree that a guy like Sewell or Slater (especially Slater) could move to guard for a year, but I am not sure why you would want to do that.  If you draft one of those that early in the draft, you think he is elite and he should be playing tackle.  On this team, you move Reiff to RG, and put either one of them at RT.  You leave Jonah right where he is.  Last year was essentially his rookie season.  He needs to show better durability, but I think he played extremely well given the limited reps in camp, COVID, Turner, and losing his entire rookie season to injury.

That being said, I am still firmly in the camp of team Chase.  I am not spending the #5 overall pick on a guy that I want to play RT.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-15-2021, 02:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I could see an IOL taken in Rd 2 who starts at RG and then someone like Brown or Walker taken in Rd 3-4 to groom behind Reiff.

I could also see a scenario where they take a guy in Rd 2 who could start at RG as a rookie then move to OT in 2022 (Cosmi, Leatherwood), and then grab a developmental guard like Kendrick Green in the middle rounds.

I think Leatherwood is one of the only guys that I could see being a really good RG and still having the quickness and length to play at RT down the road.  Cosmi is not strong enough to be a RG in the league at this point.  

[*ochocincos*]

(04-15-2021, 02:22 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: A little confused as to your point. I agree that a guy like Sewell or Slater (especially Slater) could move to guard for a year, but I am not sure why you would want to do that.  If you draft one of those that early in the draft, you think he is elite and he should be playing tackle.  On this team, you move Reiff to RG, and put either one of them at RT.  You leave Jonah right where he is.  Last year was essentially his rookie season.  He needs to show better durability, but I think he played extremely well given the limited reps in camp, COVID, Turner, and losing his entire rookie season to injury.

That being said, I am still firmly in the camp of team Chase.  I am not spending the #5 overall pick on a guy that I want to play RT.  

A lot of people remember Whitworth starting at OG before moving to LT, so that's what they envision for any 1st or 2nd round OT prospect that is drafted.

[Shouldamapads]

These arguments show exactly why FAs were so important. A few things have to happen. They best have a G like Larry Warford or the like on standby if the draft doesn't go the way they plan.

What I fully expect is:

1st Chase
2nd OL

I still think they trade for Ertz right after the draft as Philly can take Pitts.

This team is going to struggle with defensive pressure and the line still looks shaky IMO.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-15-2021, 02:27 PM)Shouldamapads Wrote: These arguments show exactly why FAs were so important.  A few things have to happen.  They best have a G like Larry Warford or the like on standby if the draft doesn't go the way they plan.

What I fully expect is:

1st Chase
2nd OL

I still think they trade for Ertz right after the draft as Philly can take Pitts.

This team is going to struggle with defensive pressure and the line still looks shaky IMO.

I don't see any way they pay ~$5 mill in Ertz's remaining salary while also paying $6.3 mill for Uzomah. They won't pay Uzomah that much to be a backup, and they aren't savvy enough to use dual-TE sets.

They could release Uzomah to free up $5.3 mill though, which would cover Ertz's salary. But what compensation would need to be given up to acquire him? I wouldn't go anything higher than a 5th rounder.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-15-2021, 02:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: A lot of people remember Whitworth starting at OG before moving to LT, so that's what they envision for any 1st or 2nd round OT prospect that is drafted.

Yep, and a lot of people forget Whit didn't win the LT position until he was something like 28 years old.  He got destroyed early on playing tackle for the Bengals.  Good thing they didn't give up on him.  I just don't see a player like Cosmi having the sand in his pants to be what we need at RG, but he is a decent, athletic OT.  I just see a lot of similarities between him and Ogbuehi.  That being said, I have no clue his passion or interest in football.  

[*ochocincos*]

(04-15-2021, 02:42 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yep, and a lot of people forget Whit didn't win the LT position until he was something like 28 years old.  He got destroyed early on playing tackle for the Bengals.  Good thing they didn't give up on him.  I just don't see a player like Cosmi having the sand in his pants to be what we need at RG, but he is a decent, athletic OT.  I just see a lot of similarities between him and Ogbuehi.  That being said, I have no clue his passion or interest in football.  

I'm not sure how much it matters to have the "sand in the pants" in this offense. This isn't the Bengals of old where they run to the right and need the RG and RT to be maulers off the line. They need guys who can move laterally to open up gaps in wide zone. Unless you're worried about Cosmi getting blown back trying to pass block?

[lone bengal]

(04-15-2021, 02:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: A lot of people remember Whitworth starting at OG before moving to LT, so that's what they envision for any 1st or 2nd round OT prospect that is drafted.

Bingo, plus it’s a completely different situation , Whitworth was moved to guard because the Bengals had Levi Jones and Willie Anderson at tackle versus moving Sewell to guard because you have Riley Reiff. Not saying it wouldn’t happen or that I would mind just saying it’s two different situations. Jonathan Ogden might be a better comp. Ogden was drafted 4th overall and played guard as a rookie. I know one of Baltimore’s tackles was Orlando Brown who was very good not sure who the other starting tackle was ?

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-15-2021, 02:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not sure how much it matters to have the "sand in the pants" in this offense. This isn't the Bengals of old where they run to the right and need the RG and RT to be maulers off the line. They need guys who can move laterally to open up gaps in wide zone. Unless you're worried about Cosmi getting blown back trying to pass block?

I think your RG still needs to be able to move people in the run game and not get knocked back in the passing game...so both.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-15-2021, 02:22 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: A little confused as to your point. I agree that a guy like Sewell or Slater (especially Slater) could move to guard for a year, but I am not sure why you would want to do that.  If you draft one of those that early in the draft, you think he is elite and he should be playing tackle.  On this team, you move Reiff to RG, and put either one of them at RT.  You leave Jonah right where he is.  Last year was essentially his rookie season.  He needs to show better durability, but I think he played extremely well given the limited reps in camp, COVID, Turner, and losing his entire rookie season to injury.

That being said, I am still firmly in the camp of team Chase.  I am not spending the #5 overall pick on a guy that I want to play RT.  

Regardless who we draft at OL they need to be versatile and be able to play both Guard and Tackle IMO.

Whether that is Sewell or another guy. The thing about Sewell is he is a great run blocker with great feet. I think he would be a
great Guard if Reiff or Sewell stay at the bookends for Sewell's rookie year.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-15-2021, 04:14 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think your RG still needs to be able to move people in the run game and not get knocked back in the passing game...so both.  

If you take that stance, all OL spots need to do that, not just RG.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-15-2021, 04:31 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If you take that stance, all OL spots need to do that, not just RG.

Of course, but I want my RG to stand for Road Grader.  Of course, he can't be one dimensional, but I want a power bully at RG. 

[*ochocincos*]

(04-15-2021, 04:40 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Of course, but I want my RG to stand for Road Grader.  Of course, he can't be one dimensional, but I want a power bully at RG. 

Hate to break it to you, but I don't think this offense is going to be built on power. It's going to be a finesse offense.

[*Synric*]

(04-15-2021, 02:42 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yep, and a lot of people forget Whit didn't win the LT position until he was something like 28 years old.  He got destroyed early on playing tackle for the Bengals.  Good thing they didn't give up on him.  I just don't see a player like Cosmi having the sand in his pants to be what we need at RG, but he is a decent, athletic OT.  I just see a lot of similarities between him and Ogbuehi.  That being said, I have no clue his passion or interest in football.  

Ezra Cleveland the Vikings second round pick has a very similar athletic profile and body type as Samuel Cosmi.

Cleveland stepped in and played Right Guard for the Vikings as a rookie at a average to above average level. In their wide zone his athleticism shined in run blocking but he had some hiccups in pass pro that were more about making the right read than getting beat physically.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-15-2021, 04:40 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Of course, but I want my RG to stand for Road Grader.  Of course, he can't be one dimensional, but I want a power bully at RG. 

You want a power gap player in an outside zone scheme?

[Burma]

(04-15-2021, 04:57 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You want a power gap player in an outside zone scheme?

Brother, The Gut has all these covered.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-15-2021, 02:22 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: A little confused as to your point. I agree that a guy like Sewell or Slater (especially Slater) could move to guard for a year, but I am not sure why you would want to do that.  If you draft one of those that early in the draft, you think he is elite and he should be playing tackle.  On this team, you move Reiff to RG, and put either one of them at RT.  You leave Jonah right where he is.  Last year was essentially his rookie season.  He needs to show better durability, but I think he played extremely well given the limited reps in camp, COVID, Turner, and losing his entire rookie season to injury.

That being said, I am still firmly in the camp of team Chase.  I am not spending the #5 overall pick on a guy that I want to play RT.  

FWIW, the Bengals spent the 6th overall pick on a guy they wanted to play RT (Andre Smith).

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-15-2021, 05:07 PM)Burma Wrote: Brother, The Gut has all these covered.

I think he is missing an opportunity to profit off the gut. Dick’s Sporting Goods would be fit.

[mikey6866]

Defensive guys can pick and choose against our line we don't have 1 weak link we got 4 weak links. A 2nd rounder is def gonna fix the line lol.. Good news for us is that a lot of the tackles in this class got t-rex arms so sliding to guard is gonna be an option for most of them.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-15-2021, 05:07 PM)Burma Wrote: Brother, The Gut has all these covered.

Damn rights brother.