Carson Picks His Horse

[tms]

(04-24-2021, 11:32 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I think he will only be know as that by the fans around here. Outside of Cincinnati I doubt most fans cared that he told Mike Brown he'd retire before he'd play for the Bengals again.

Actually, based on the reaction when Joe Burrow was drafted and the reaction on a national level after Burrow's injury, I would guess outside of Cincinnati Palmer is viewed as a smart guy who got out of the worst NFL franchise before his career was ruined completely. 

I still have no hard feelings towards Palmer, he got to do what everyone wishes they had the power to do at their job. He was promised things, these promises weren't met and he said "F you, I don't need this job." And he had the money to back that statement up. 

I'm actually a decent case in point. I live in New York. The reasons for why everything happened were never made clear to me, or anyone I know. I was aware of the trash on his lawn and harassment of Shaelyn, but besides that there was just a lot of wink wink nudge nudge ya-know-wham-talkin-bout (I have no idea what you're talkin bout, bro!). To this day, the Caramilk secret is in tact. 

You speak to promises made by Brown- what exactly were those? Cap-related? Contract-related? Marv-related? Something else altogether? For outsiders like me, it's always been tough to get info. The Bengals' media is just so sanitized (and has always been).

[Murdock2420]

(04-25-2021, 12:02 AM)tms Wrote: I'm actually a decent case in point. I live in New York. The reasons for why everything happened were never made clear to me, or anyone I know. I was aware of the trash on his lawn and harassment of Shaelyn, but besides that there was just a lot of wink wink nudge nudge ya-know-wham-talkin-bout (I have no idea what you're talkin bout, bro!). To this day, the Caramilk secret is in tact. 

You speak to promises made by Brown- what exactly were those? Cap-related? Contract-related? Marv-related? Something else altogether? For outsiders like me, it's always been tough to get info. The Bengals' media is just so sanitized (and has always been).

Why he left was a combination of things apparently, but this quote from Palmer is very telling:

"We won our division. We got good one year. We were close to getting good and we needed some key pieces. And I had gone to the organization and was like...we need a couple players here, a couple players there...and then of course the offseason comes, and nothing happens. Nothing changes. And it was year after year. In order to win in the NFL...you’ve got to be desperate to win a championship. You’ve got to be all in. The financials and the money side of it are very important obviously to owners, and to everybody that’s invested in the organization. But if the most important thing is the financials and the second-most important thing is winning, then you don’t have a chance. And it’s so important that ownership is willing to do what it takes to win."

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/11/4/20946633/carson-palmer-tells-the-truth-about-the-bengals-that-we-already-knew

and more info here:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/carson-palmer-claims-the-cincinnati-bengals-werent-committed-to-winning/

Palmer wanted to win, and some reports I read back when this all went down was that there were promises made when he signed his extension that the team was going to commit to winning and be active in free agency. Some rumors were that it was also about Marvin but that never seemed to be the real issue, it was more the lack of commitment to win from the entire franchise which to this day is pretty much the biggest complaint of all fans here.

All in all, I don't blame the guy. This team hasn't shown any desire to be a real franchise until Katie seemingly took more control and brought her daughter on board as well. Now, we have an active free agency two years in a row and a ring of honor. Baby steps... but at least they are steps. Maybe next we'll get a real scouting department and an indoor practice bubble. Then these Sewell v Chase debates will go away as we'll have reason to trust the front office.

[*jason*]

(04-24-2021, 11:38 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I believe Hue was one of the casualties of that... from a non-Bengal side of people getting fired 

Sadly nothing seems to embarrass Mike.

I believe you're correct. If I remember Hue had the Raiders in the hunt somewhere around 8 wins when that trade was made. He did all that with Jason ******' Campbell under center. A first time HC with a backup caliber QB had his team in the hunt (Zac Taylor is a bum). The Raiders season fell apart upon Carson's arrival, and Hue was canned. I always got the impression that Hue was pushing hard for that trade, and they definitely didn't get the player that Hue remembered from 2005. It cost him his job.

[tms]

(04-25-2021, 12:11 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Why he left was a combination of things apparently, but this quote from Palmer is very telling:

"We won our division. We got good one year. We were close to getting good and we needed some key pieces. And I had gone to the organization and was like...we need a couple players here, a couple players there...and then of course the offseason comes, and nothing happens. Nothing changes. And it was year after year. In order to win in the NFL...you’ve got to be desperate to win a championship. You’ve got to be all in. The financials and the money side of it are very important obviously to owners, and to everybody that’s invested in the organization. But if the most important thing is the financials and the second-most important thing is winning, then you don’t have a chance. And it’s so important that ownership is willing to do what it takes to win."

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/11/4/20946633/carson-palmer-tells-the-truth-about-the-bengals-that-we-already-knew

and more info here:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/carson-palmer-claims-the-cincinnati-bengals-werent-committed-to-winning/

Palmer wanted to win, and some reports I read back when this all went down was that there were promises made when he signed his extension that the team was going to commit to winning and be active in free agency. Some rumors were that it was also about Marvin but that never seemed to be the real issue, it was more the lack of commitment to win from the entire franchise which to this day is pretty much the biggest complaint of all fans here.

All in all, I don't blame the guy. This team hasn't shown any desire to be a real franchise until Katie seemingly took more control and brought her daughter on board as well. Now, we have an active free agency two years in a row and a ring of honor. Baby steps... but at least they are steps. Maybe next we'll get a real scouting department and an indoor practice bubble. Then these Sewell v Chase debates will go away as we'll have reason to trust the front office.

Awesome, thanks. 

[Burma]

(04-24-2021, 11:32 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I think he will only be know as that by the fans around here. Outside of Cincinnati I doubt most fans cared that he told Mike Brown he'd retire before he'd play for the Bengals again.

Actually, based on the reaction when Joe Burrow was drafted and the reaction on a national level after Burrow's injury, I would guess outside of Cincinnati Palmer is viewed as a smart guy who got out of the worst NFL franchise before his career was ruined completely. 

I still have no hard feelings towards Palmer, he got to do what everyone wishes they had the power to do at their job. He was promised things, these promises weren't met and he said "F you, I don't need this job." And he had the money to back that statement up. Average person can't do that, we don't have millions in the bank and know that if management fires us we might be out of work for a while. Palmer though, knew that if Brown let him go, he'd be hired within the week, and all he had to do was wait Mike out. I just wish the whole thing would have embarrassed Brown to the point he would have retired or sold the team/been forced to sell.

That whole situation was such a ****-show on the mothership boards. Between Denny G being a banner waving, sniveling sycophant and the "Bengals can do no wrong" homers defining what being a fan meant for everyone else, the level of self righteous outrage was mind blowing.  

I was completely on Team Carson and supported him leaving.  How anyone could be a fan of the Bengals and not see how so many great players have been completely wasted here due to Mike Brown's pig headed intransigence was incomprehensible. Palmer was sold a bill of goods and understandably got fed up. We Bengals fans see Ken Anderson, Ken Riley, and Willie Anderson get passed over for the Hall of Fame it should be a wake up call that careers die in Cincy, not get celebrated.  Hell, Corey Dillon would have been a 1st ballot hall of famer if he had played for just about anyone else! His first season with the Pats, at age 30, he broke their single season rushing record with over 1600 yards, made his way to 8th all time for most rushing yards, 3rd in all time TDs, and 2nd in career YPG in only 3 years!!  Dude was completely wasted in Cincy.

[Murdock2420]

(04-25-2021, 12:26 AM)Burma Wrote: That whole situation was such a ****-show on the mothership boards. Between Denny G being a banner waving, sniveling sycophant and the "Bengals can do no wrong" homers defining what being a fan meant for everyone else the level of self righteous outrage was mind blowing.  

I was completely on Team Carson and supported him leaving.  How anyone could be a fan of the Bengals and not see how so many great players have been completely wasted here due to Mike Brown's pig headed intransigence was incomprehensible. Palmer was sold a bill of goods and understandably got fed up. We Bengals fans see Ken Anderson, Ken Riley, and Willie Anderson get passed over for the Hall of Fame it should be a wake up call that careers die in Cincy, not get celebrated.  Hell, Corey Dillon would have been a 1st ballot hall of famer if he had played for just about anyone else! His first season with the Pats, at age 30, he broke their single season rushing record with over 1600 yards, made his way to 8th all time for most rushing yards, 3rd in all time TDs, and 2nd in career YPG in only 3 years!!  Dude was completely wasted in Cincy.

Oh how I miss Denny lol. He took drinking the Kool-aid to Jedi levels.

[Burma]

(04-25-2021, 12:29 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Oh how I miss Denny lol. He took drinking the Kool-aid to Jedi levels.

There have been very few people I have respected less than Denny. I am pretty sure Mike Brown's forearm still has a lingering odor from Denny's role as his puppet.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-24-2021, 03:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Cannot disagree...

The Chase talk could be smoke and mirrors for all we know. 

Just sure sounds like Chase will be the pick cause of the depth of the OL class.

Smoke Screen and Bengals???

I think every year just about everyone knows who they are drafting. Only time it's a surprise is when they trade.

Why do you think over the years a team will jump in front of us and pick "the guy" the FO wanted?? happens alot.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-24-2021, 10:40 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I’d be pissed too if some snot-nosed fans threw trash in my yard. Or in my case, just anyone. Let me come dump a trash can in your front yard so you can wake up to it and see if it doesn’t piss you off.

What a weird take lol. “Palmer got mad that people threw trash in his front yard. That crybaby.” YEAH, YOU TELL HIM.

I mean, it is kinda dumb to judge an entire fanbase or region on the actions of a couple knuckleheads.

That said, I remember that story being debunked on the old boards. His neighbors said that never happened.

Did it ever get confirmed by anyone?

[Burma]

(04-25-2021, 02:05 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I mean, it is kinda dumb to judge an entire fanbase or region on the actions of a couple knuckleheads.

I would agree with you if the state of Pennsylvania did not exist. 

[The Clapp]

(04-24-2021, 10:40 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I’d be pissed too if some snot-nosed fans threw trash in my yard. Or in my case, just anyone. Let me come dump a trash can in your front yard so you can wake up to it and see if it doesn’t piss you off.

What a weird take lol. “Palmer got mad that people threw trash in his front yard. That crybaby.” YEAH, YOU TELL HIM.

Strike a nerve?? 

i never said he didnt have the right to be mad.. i said he couldnt hit his recievers towards the end of his career in Cincy..it makes sense that he wouldnt be able to hit garbage can either...

He gave up on the team...lets not forget that..

[*bfine32*]

Let's not forget Carson used to go back to Cali during the off season and talk crap about the Ohio fan base on local radio.

CP9 grew up too late. He never loved his professional team and fanbase more than he did his college.

I was often critical of Andy's play on the field but I never questioned his love for the team and fanbase; I could never say the same about CP9

[KillerGoose]

(04-25-2021, 11:20 AM)The Clapp Wrote: Strike a nerve?? 

i never said he didnt have the right to be mad.. i said he couldnt hit his recievers towards the end of his career in Cincy..it makes sense that he wouldnt be able to hit garbage can either...

He gave up on the team...lets not forget that..

No, not at all. I just think it's a ridiculous take. I don't view it as him giving up on the team, I view it as him telling Mike Brown to shove it because he didn't believe that MB was doing what it took to build a winning franchise, just like we have all complained about. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-24-2021, 12:18 AM)tms Wrote: Say what you will about Palmer, I'm glad he took this spot with Eisen. He doesn't mince words.


Carson Palmer on the Rich Eisen Show, April 22

"It didn't matter who we had outside".


Bullshit, you dumbass.  These teams were able to beat the steelers because they were able to spread them out and attack them at all levels.  AGAIN, if anyone actually follows this team, the Bengals have done more to address the offensive line than any position thus far, and they will absolutely be spending two picks on the offensive line (likely the 2nd and 3rd or 4th round picks) to further address the line.

Adding Chase to this already solid WR group makes them ELITE at one position group for the first time in a while.  It helps the rushing attack, it helps the other WRs and TEs.  

If they drafted Chase and donated the rest of their picks to charity, yes, I would say they needed to do more to protect Joe, but they have already done a lot and will do more come draft day.  

Why do I always want to call Palmer a pancake-eating motherf******, like the Seattle GM on Draft Day?  

[The Clapp]

(04-25-2021, 11:32 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: No, not at all. I just think it's a ridiculous take. I don't view it as him giving up on the team, I view it as him telling Mike Brown to shove it because he didn't believe that MB was doing what it took to build a winning franchise, just like we have all complained about. 

Thats where we disagree.. He took a contract extension, correct..  I mean he had 4 yrs left on his contract when he said he was going to retire. Maybe if he wanted to stick it to the Brown Family, he could have not taken the contract extension... Say what you want , but in my eyes he quit on the team and he is no different than the garbage thrown on his lawn....

[Burma]

(04-25-2021, 01:42 PM)The Clapp Wrote: Thats where we disagree.. He took a contract extension, correct..  I mean he had 4 yrs left on his contract when he said he was going to retire. Maybe if he wanted to stick it to the Brown Family, he could have not taken the contract extension... Say what you want , but in my eyes he quit on the team and he is no different than the garbage thrown on his lawn....

If he signed the contract with the understanding that there would be changes made which were never manifested then he was well justified to get out.  I will never understand this blind devotion to the franchise that would make someone call a player who justifiably wanted out trash.

[bengals1969]

(04-24-2021, 05:36 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Chase certainly doesn’t have a “much longer” football resume. Chase started 24 games and Sewell started 20. The conference argument is valid, though. Oregon has been the cream of that conference for the past decade. Sewell’s best tape is likely against his own teammate, Kayvon Thibodeaux, who is a projected top 10 pick next year.

Chase was a star in the national championship game.  That was such a pucker game for LSU, down early, their offense consistently terrible starting field position yet Chase eventually was unstoppable by half time.  It's just one game but it was national, probably global given the number of international students who have attended both schools.  Chase played in the biggest stage but Sewell never has.  
It's just one game, valid criticism.  But at #5 it matters.  I know Sewell could have a All Pro career, but he hasn't been tested the way Chase was during the championship.

[Dr.Z]

(04-24-2021, 04:38 PM)tBengal Wrote: I’m team Chase but won’t be upset with either one we pick.

Same

[The Clapp]

(04-25-2021, 01:47 PM)Burma Wrote: If he signed the contract with the understanding that there would be changes made which were never manifested then he was well justified to get out.  I will never understand this blind devotion to the franchise that would make someone call a player who justifiably wanted out trash

And I will never understand why you sign a contract and do what he did.. he wanted recievers.. they drafted recievers...he want TO..they got TO... to me it seemed like the Bengals were trying to appease him... Andy did very well with Carsons team...

[Murdock2420]

(04-25-2021, 01:42 PM)The Clapp Wrote: Thats where we disagree.. He took a contract extension, correct..  I mean he had 4 yrs left on his contract when he said he was going to retire. Maybe if he wanted to stick it to the Brown Family, he could have not taken the contract extension... Say what you want , but in my eyes he quit on the team and he is no different than the garbage thrown on his lawn....

Let me try painting this in a different light.

You get offered a job and you sign the contract. When they offer you the job, they tell you that you are going to be able to compete with the best companies out there and achieve the honest honors. So you of course, sign the contract for good money.

Now, after you sign the contract they keep the manager there who is below the average of the other companies and they don't sign any other top tier people to come in and assist you, top tier being the key word. Now you look at being locked in for 4 years and knowing you are never going to be one of the top companies, you are going to finish last a lot, you are going to be frustrated a lot and you are going to waste 4 more years of your very short work life.


NFL careers don't last forever and wasting 4 years of your prime on Marvin Lewis in the playoffs, and Duke Tobin as GM and no scouts and not signing the top tier FA's that were needed to give you a chance, makes no sense.

I honestly think the only people who are mad at Palmer are the people who are upset they are still suck with the Brown family shit show and are just upset Palmer was able to get away. He wanted a chance to win. 

The only way you can sit here and be mad at Carson Palmer is if you can sit there and 100% say "I agree with all the choices Mike Brown has made since Palmer was drafted." And no one in their right mind can say that. You have an emotional attachment to the Bengals as we all do, it is why we are fans. Palmer didn't grow up here, he was drafted here. He loved football and wanted to go to a franchise that wasn't going to lie to his face and that was committed to winning. Good for him. I just wish the league would have taken notice and looked into what was happening here to make a star QB walk away.