Can someone name a better receiving core?

[NUGDUKWE]

I just brought this up in the draft forums. But if we draft Ja'marr Chase can someone name a comparable receiving core to that in the NFL?

I'm wondering if that's a good or bad thing? I would think it's a good thing but not one team having a receiving core like that would make you think there's a reason.

Receivers can be divas especially when they're not getting the ball. The only team I would think had something like that is Tampa Bay with Evans, Godwin and AB. But I had Mike Evans on my fantasy team and watching some of their games because of that fact even he was getting a bit salty and Tom Brady was his quarterback and they won the superbowl. What happens if your not winning and not getting the ball.

Maybe I'm reading way too much into but I've just found myself leaning Chase because I think thats the way its headed and I think it may be a legitimate concern. People say we need a #1 WR but Boyd and Higgins are just supposed to accept a diminished role? If you say they're roles won't change then how many pass attempts does Burrow have a game? 

[KillerGoose]

(04-25-2021, 11:36 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I just brought this up in the draft forums. But if we draft Ja'marr Chase can someone name a comparable receiving core to that in the NFL?

I'm wondering if that's a good or bad thing? I would think it's a good thing but not one team having a receiving core like that would make you think there's a reason.

Receivers can be divas especially when they're not getting the ball. The only team I would think had something like that is Tampa Bay with Evans, Godwin and AB. But I had Mike Evans on my fantasy team and watching some of their games because of that fact even he was getting a bit salty and Tom Brady was his quarterback and they won the superbowl. What happens if your not winning and not getting the ball.

Maybe I'm reading way too much into but I've just found myself leaning Chase because I think thats the way its headed and I think it may be a legitimate concern. People say we need a #1 WR but Boyd and Higgins are just supposed to accept a diminished role? If you say they're roles won't change then how many pass attempts does Burrow have a game? 

Their roles wouldn’t change. I’m not even sure the targets would change that much, assuming that Chase is as advertised. AJ Green ate up over 100 targets last year, and he sucked. If Chase is as advertised, he should be getting a similar amount of looks.

Higgins is the X.
Chase is the Z.
Boyd is the slot.

All of their roles are pretty clearly defined.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Year 1 Probably Still Better (no particular order):
Bucs
Vikings
Cowboys
Falcons

Obviously have no idea how Chase would immediately perform and later develop, but at least initially, I think those teams would be ahead. Also if AJ Green comes back to even 80% of his former self, I think you would have to consider putting the Cardinals on the list by the sheer strength of Hopkins, but I am not confident enough of that to actually add them on the list right now.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-25-2021, 11:36 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I just brought this up in the draft forums. But if we draft Ja'marr Chase can someone name a comparable receiving core to that in the NFL?

I'm wondering if that's a good or bad thing? I would think it's a good thing but not one team having a receiving core like that would make you think there's a reason.

Receivers can be divas especially when they're not getting the ball. The only team I would think had something like that is Tampa Bay with Evans, Godwin and AB. But I had Mike Evans on my fantasy team and watching some of their games because of that fact even he was getting a bit salty and Tom Brady was his quarterback and they won the superbowl. What happens if your not winning and not getting the ball.

Maybe I'm reading way too much into but I've just found myself leaning Chase because I think thats the way its headed and I think it may be a legitimate concern. People say we need a #1 WR but Boyd and Higgins are just supposed to accept a diminished role? If you say they're roles won't change then how many pass attempts does Burrow have a game? 

I don't think Tee or Boyd would have a diminished role if we drafted Chase. Just more opportunities to catch the ball.

This would also open up the running game if we drafted someone like Meinerz. Carman, Eichenberg, Darunz etc. Afterward.

Could talk about another 10 or so OL too. Deep Draft for most of our needs on Offense.

My biggest concern after the O is taken care of is our pass rush.

[NUGDUKWE]

(04-26-2021, 12:37 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Year 1 Probably Still Better (no particular order):
Bucs
Vikings
Cowboys
Falcons

Obviously have no idea how Chase would immediately perform and later develop, but at least initially, I think those teams would be ahead. Also if AJ Green comes back to even 80% of his former self, I think you would have to consider putting the Cardinals on the list by the sheer strength of Hopkins, but I am not confident enough of that to actually add them on the list right now.

The Bucs did but like I said I think things were boarderline about to get ugly there. There were mulitple games Evans wasn't getting the kind of targets Mike Evans should get.

The Vikings no Theilen and Jefferson.

The Falcons no Julio and Ridley.

I want to say yes to the Cowboys but that whole situation is still new and I'm not sure how that will work out. Also I looked up Micheal Gallup because I knew he was a free agent. Did you know he signed a 4 year $3.5mil dollar deal. Talk about bargain basement deal. Where were we at on this the Bengals could have totally sweetend that pot.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-26-2021, 08:10 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: The Bucs did but like I said I think things were boarderline about to get ugly there. There were mulitple games Evans wasn't getting the kind of targets Mike Evans should get.

The Vikings no Theilen and Jefferson.

The Falcons no Julio and Ridley.

I want to say yes to the Cowboys but that whole situation is still new and I'm not sure how that will work out. Also I looked up Micheal Gallup because I knew he was a free agent. Did you know he signed a 4 year $3.5mil dollar deal. Talk about bargain basement deal. Where were we at on this the Bengals could have totally sweetend that pot.

Are you saying you don't think they have better WR corps?

Julio Jones has 5 seasons of 1,400+ yards, has an 1,800 yard season to his name, and is either the 1st or 2nd best WR in the league. Ridley is coming off a 1,374 yard season, and their #3 Russel Gage is coming off a 786 yard season. That is clearly a better trio than Boyd (0 1,100+ yd seasons), Higgins (0 1,000+ yd seasons), and rookie Chase.

Jefferson just put up 1,400 yards as a rookie and Theinlen has 2 1,200+ yd seasons to his name and even with his down year, he still had 14 TDs last season. Admittedly their #3 is a whole lot weaker, but their 1-2 has significantly more proven high ceiling NFL play.

Gallup wasn't a free agent. He is still on his 3rd round rookie contract.  Also, the Cowboys I think would basically be on par with Chase/Boyd/Higgins. I was just adding them on the list because theirs is based on proven numbers rather than hopeful numbers with Chase. In a tie, go for the proven sort of deal. Lamb and Higgins basically wash as 900 yard rookies, Gallup and Boyd more or less wash as guys coming off 800 yard seasons with a 1,000 yard season before that, which leaves Cooper as a 1,100 yard type receiver to more or less wash with Chase's potential.

[NUGDUKWE]

(04-26-2021, 09:27 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Are you saying you don't think they have better WR corps?

Julio Jones has 5 seasons of 1,400+ yards, has an 1,800 yard season to his name, and is either the 1st or 2nd best WR in the league. Ridley is coming off a 1,374 yard season, and their #3 Russel Gage is coming off a 786 yard season. That is clearly a better trio than Boyd (0 1,100+ yd seasons), Higgins (0 1,000+ yd seasons), and rookie Chase.

Jefferson just put up 1,400 yards as a rookie and Theinlen has 2 1,200+ yd seasons to his name and even with his down year, he still had 14 TDs last season. Admittedly their #3 is a whole lot weaker, but their 1-2 has significantly more proven high ceiling NFL play.

Gallup wasn't a free agent. He is still on his 3rd round rookie contract.  Also, the Cowboys I think would basically be on par with Chase/Boyd/Higgins. I was just adding them on the list because theirs is based on proven numbers rather than hopeful numbers with Chase. In a tie, go for the proven sort of deal. Lamb and Higgins basically wash as 900 yard rookies, Gallup and Boyd more or less wash as guys coming off 800 yard seasons with a 1,000 yard season before that, which leaves Cooper as a 1,100 yard type receiver to more or less wash with Chase's potential.

Gallup just signed that contract this year I believe I could mistaken. He's a guy I would've targeted in free agency. 

I'm not trying to argue that Boyd and Higgins are better than Theilen and Jefferson or Julio and Ridley just that the roles/hierarchy on the teams are defined. Russell Gage knows he's the 3rd wide receiver.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-25-2021, 11:36 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I just brought this up in the draft forums. But if we draft Ja'marr Chase can someone name a comparable receiving core to that in the NFL?

I'm wondering if that's a good or bad thing? I would think it's a good thing but not one team having a receiving core like that would make you think there's a reason.

Receivers can be divas especially when they're not getting the ball. The only team I would think had something like that is Tampa Bay with Evans, Godwin and AB. But I had Mike Evans on my fantasy team and watching some of their games because of that fact even he was getting a bit salty and Tom Brady was his quarterback and they won the superbowl. What happens if your not winning and not getting the ball.

Maybe I'm reading way too much into but I've just found myself leaning Chase because I think thats the way its headed and I think it may be a legitimate concern. People say we need a #1 WR but Boyd and Higgins are just supposed to accept a diminished role? If you say they're roles won't change then how many pass attempts does Burrow have a game? 

As much as I hate to say it, PIT has a good set of receiving weapons.
JJSS, Claypool, Diontae Johnson, Eric Ebron.
All of the three WRs above had 830+ yards, and Ebron had 558.
I do think Chase, Higgins, and Boyd can be as good or better than their WRs.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-26-2021, 09:39 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Gallup just signed that contract this year I believe I could mistaken. He's a guy I would've targeted in free agency. 

I'm not trying to argue that Boyd and Higgins are better than Theilen and Jefferson or Julio and Ridley just that the roles/hierarchy on the teams are defined. Russell Gage knows he's the 3rd wide receiver.

You are. He has never been in FA.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/michael-gallup-25180/
https://overthecap.com/player/michael-gallup/6966/


He's in the 4th year of his 4yr/$3.5m rookie deal after being drafted in the 3rd round of the 2018 draft, just 3 picks after the Bengals chose Malik Jefferson (who lasted just 1 year with the Bengals).

Next offseason, provided they don't extend or franchise tag him, he'll be a FA.

[NUGDUKWE]

I have been a draft Sewell and move on guy. But I have been listening to everyone's logic that we can build the offensive line in rounds 2 & 3 and that the verdict on Jonah Williams is still out. Both of which I agree with and the only thing that scares me with Jonah is health. Although I do think we would be more than fine adding a WR a little later in the draft. I still see the potential of the Chase argument. But looking at the depth of this draft and the amount of needs of the Bengals I think the best move is trading back.

That's why I was disappointed when I heard Duke Tobins comments about really not wanting to trade back or atleast very far and more importantly really sounding like adding a WR was gonna be the way we are going. So I bought in and was really starting to lean Chase but then I thought of this and thought surely the Bengals would have as well. Which made me think what if that was all a smoke screen as a way to make everyone think were drafting Chase and sold on our draft position essentially driving up the price. I'm sure its not and we'll probably draft Chase but that would be some next level Kiser Sose ( not sure how to spell that) kind of smokescreen.

[NUGDUKWE]

(04-26-2021, 10:12 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You are. He has never been in FA.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/michael-gallup-25180/
https://overthecap.com/player/michael-gallup/6966/


He's in the 4th year of his 4yr/$3.5m rookie deal after being drafted in the 3rd round of the 2018 draft, just 3 picks after the Bengals chose Malik Jefferson (who lasted just 1 year with the Bengals).

Next offseason, provided they don't extend or franchise tag him, he'll be a FA.

Okay I did look it up early and thought it was crazy low. That makes sense.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-26-2021, 10:04 AM)ochocincos Wrote: As much as I hate to say it, PIT has a good set of receiving weapons.
JJSS, Claypool, Diontae Johnson, Eric Ebron.
All of the three WRs above had 830+ yards, and Ebron had 558.
I do think Chase, Higgins, and Boyd can be as good or better than their WRs.

Ehhh.... JuJu hasn't done shit since he had to start facing #1 CBs once Antonio Brown left Pittsburgh and stopped requiring the #1 CB + another guy (or sometimes 2) helping. Last year he had 8.6 yards per catch. Seriously. That's almost as bad as 37-year-old Larry Fitzgerald numbers. That's 0.1 yard less than Drew Sample for crying out loud.

Claypool is a good WR, but I think he's basically on par with Higgins.

Diontae Johnson can't catch. He had 13 drops last year, which is pretty damn awful and doubly so when it's a 10-11 yard per catch kind of guy. You can forgive a little bit of bad hands from a deep threat/homerun guy, but you can't be a 10 yard guy AND have bad hands.

[Bengalbug]

Metcalf/Lockett
Diggs/brown/Beasley
Hill/Kelce

I know that you are trying to say that the “3” might be better than others receiving corps. But honestly hill and kelce are so dynamic and compliment one another that I think they take the cake. They also have hardman and Robinson.

[Amalone002]

(04-26-2021, 12:37 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Year 1 Probably Still Better (no particular order):
Bucs
Vikings
Cowboys
Falcons

Obviously have no idea how Chase would immediately perform and later develop, but at least initially, I think those teams would be ahead. Also if AJ Green comes back to even 80% of his former self, I think you would have to consider putting the Cardinals on the list by the sheer strength of Hopkins, but I am not confident enough of that to actually add them on the list right now.

 
Bucs are good

Don't agree on the rest.  Vikings and falcons only have 2 receivers and Thielen wasn't good last year. I would take boyd over him and in college Chase was better than Jefferson and you add on Higgins we are better. 

Atl again has 2 very good WRs. I'll give you in the past and when healthy Julio is better than what we have but going forward I don't think that's the case ( big reason why ATL are trying to trade him now). And I think higgins and ridley is about the same. Gage is ok but not better than boyd or Chase (imo).

Cowboys...lol no... just no. Will see on cedee,  Idk why but im not impressed by Gallup and Cooper is way overrated.  

Someone mentioned Pitt and that's a NO FOR ME DAWG on them.  Yes they put up alot of yards but they never run the ball. I don't think they have a #1. Juju has proven he isn't and the other guys came in flashes some really good games some disappearing acts,  and  they whole core is known to drop alot of passes.

I think were #2,  to bucs at least for one more year. 

[*ochocincos*]

(04-26-2021, 10:20 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ehhh.... JuJu hasn't done shit since he had to start facing #1 CBs once Antonio Brown left Pittsburgh and stopped requiring the #1 CB + another guy (or sometimes 2) helping. Last year he had 8.6 yards per catch. Seriously. That's almost as bad as 37-year-old Larry Fitzgerald numbers. That's 0.1 yard less than Drew Sample for crying out loud.

Claypool is a good WR, but I think he's basically on par with Higgins.

Diontae Johnson can't catch. He had 13 drops last year, which is pretty damn awful and doubly so when it's a 10-11 yard per catch kind of guy. You can forgive a little bit of bad hands from a deep threat/homerun guy, but you can't be a 10 yard guy AND have bad hands.

You seem to be nitpicking them, even though Diontae Johnson still had 923-7, Claypool had 873-9, and JJSS had 831-9.
All of those numbers are good for a high-end WR2.
If the Bengals had 3 WRs who had 800+ yards and 7+ TDs, we'd be ecstatic.

Is JJSS a WR1? No. He's a WR2.
Is Diontae Johnson a WR1? No. He's a WR2.
Claypool might be the one who gets to the WR1 echelon. He was the WR3 in that offense last year, but I see him getting more opportunities this year. He may be on the same tier as Higgins, but I think Higgins is a low-end WR1. I would expect Chase to be better than them all. If not, he shouldn't be the selection at 5.

[GreenCornBengal]

(04-26-2021, 10:32 AM)ochocincos Wrote: You seem to be nitpicking them, even though Diontae Johnson still had 923-7, Claypool had 873-9, and JJSS had 831-9.
All of those numbers are good for a high-end WR2.
If the Bengals had 3 WRs who had 800+ yards and 7+ TDs, we'd be ecstatic.

Is JJSS a WR1? No. He's a WR2.
Is Diontae Johnson a WR1? No. He's a WR2.
Claypool might be the one who gets to the WR1 echelon. He was the WR3 in that offense last year, but I see him getting more opportunities this year. He may be on the same tier as Higgins, but I think Higgins is a low-end WR1. I would expect Chase to be better than them all. If not, he shouldn't be the selection at 5.

Claypool has potential to be a big time receiver in the league. He’s a big dude who isn’t afraid to go up for the ball. Has breakaway speed with the ball in his hands as well. Thankfully he’s immature and has JJSS as his role model. Hopefully he remains a little b and that stunts his growth as a player. Losing Ben should end up hurting his numbers a bit too unless the Steelers get a good QB here in the next few years.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-26-2021, 11:00 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Claypool has potential to be a big time receiver in the league. He’s a big dude who isn’t afraid to go up for the ball. Has breakaway speed with the ball in his hands as well. Thankfully he’s immature and has JJSS as his role model. Hopefully he remains a little b and that stunts his growth as a player. Losing Ben should end up hurting his numbers a bit too unless the Steelers get a good QB here in the next few years.

The way I would rank them if the Bengals added Chase:
Chase
Claypool (On-par with Higgins, but I think Claypool has higher ceiling due to size and speed)
Higgins
Boyd
Johnson
JJSS

I might take all of them over any of the WRs the Ravens have.

[Hammerstripes]

In theory they have talent, but after taking a year off and being a rookie, there's no guarantee Chase will be dominant this year.

[Wes Mantooth]

(04-26-2021, 10:31 AM)Amalone002 Wrote:   Thielen wasn't good last year.

He had 925 yards and 14 TD's.

[*bfine32*]

Whichever team takes Devonta Smith