Can someone name a better receiving core?

[NUGDUKWE]

(04-26-2021, 08:19 PM)jason Wrote: Lapham is a paid mouthpiece, and has zero credibility with me after his bullshit with Jermaine Gresham in 2014. Carlos Dunlap being bad against the run is news to me.

I think he's an awful broadcaster as well. He sounds like a buffoon.

I like Lapham but I can't help it that last part made me chuckle. I think Lapham really likes the organization and is a homer like alot of us and i respect that alot. But it can also cloud your judgement and I guess he is paid to so thats another side of it.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-26-2021, 06:36 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I mean, they're really not.  He left out the fact that Tyreek Hill had 15 TD's last year and sat oout the last game of the season.

Yeah, even the yardage gap between Tyreek Hill and Tee Higgins is basically the gap between Higgins and 2020 AJ Green or Travis Fulgham.

[PDub80]

(04-26-2021, 08:40 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Yup.  I'd rep you'd more if I could.

I'm sure you know this, but for others that don't or never considered it:  Notice how Dave Lapham never said shit about AJ Green during 2019.

Hiss whole rant about Gresham was that if you go through pre-game drills like that you should be out their playing with your team.  (Pretty sure this was a one game thing).  Meanwhile, AJ ran through pre-game drills for like half the season and Lapham didn't say one f'n word.

Only difference was one guy was on his way out, and the other guy was one of the organization's favorites.

Dave Lapham is a total clown.  Honestly one of the worst announcers I've ever heard in my entire life.  He makes it impossible to follow the game at times and I don't how anyone thinks stuff like "The Steelers brought a 60 gallon drum of whoop-ass and sprayed it all over the Bengals" is funny or entertaining. 

Yes he did. LOL. He talked about it quite a bit and said AJ looked absolutely good to go in pregame drills and maybe the team or AJ decided to shut it down. He also said he didn't understand why he wasn't out there if he was able to do everything without pain in warmups. He talked about this on a few occasions. 

Gresh never flat out called AJ out, but he commented on AJ looking unbelievable and full speed during warmups. I have no doubts that the team told him to tone it down after Gresh cried about it. Gresham was soft, everyone knows it, and he was a huge baby after being called out.

[*jason*]

(04-26-2021, 08:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I've never understood the hatred for Lap over the Gresh situation.

Like you just said...he's a paid mouthpiece. Meaning he says what the organization is thinking.

Like Marv said: "Gresh is a man of many, many, many, many moods" (actual quote). Everything I read suggested Gresh wasn't a particularly liked guy in that building.

And if Lap thought Gresh was sandbagging it, I'm sure someone in the building said Gresh was sandbagging it. I doubt he made it up out of thin air.

I dunno... Gresham drove me crazy at times, but it was because of things like trying for and extra yard and losing the ball... Things of that nature. I personally never got the impression that effort was an issue with him. He definitely seemed boneheaded at times, but that's 50% of every player that ever suited up for the Bengals. Wes pointed out Lapham's silence on AJ Green doing drills before games. Hell... He talked about how amazing he looked. We all know now that there was nothing amazing about AJ Green from 2019 - 2020.

I didn't hear the podcast that PDub was referencing, but I can't get behind Lapham or anybody else being revisionist with the way things ended for Dunlap. To say he only cared about sacks is like saying Chad only cared about TDs and celebrating. Dunlap ran guys down from behind, stripped the ball, tipped the ball, made game saving plays, scored TDs, recorded interceptions, blocked kicks, brought energy, tried to involve the crowd, and he certainly wasn't bad against the run.

[*jason*]

(04-26-2021, 09:04 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Yes he did. LOL. He talked about it quite a bit and said AJ looked absolutely good to go in pregame drills and maybe the team or AJ decided to shut it down. He also said he didn't understand why he wasn't out there if he was able to do everything without pain in warmups. He talked about this on a few occasions. 

Gresh never flat out called AJ out, but he commented on AJ looking unbelievable and full speed during warmups. I have no doubts that the team told him to tone it down after Gresh cried about it. Gresham was soft, everyone knows it, and he was a huge baby after being called out.

How good did AJ Green look to you at any point past October of 2018? Lapham was either lying, or doesn't know what he's talking about.

I'd also like to point out that Jermaine Gresham pancaked a prime Geno Atkins during the Oklahoma drill on the last Hard Knocks the Bengals appeared on. He may not have been a thinking man's player, or even very good, but I don't think he was soft.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-27-2021, 01:31 AM)jason Wrote: I dunno... Gresham drove me crazy at times, but it was because of things like trying for and extra yard and losing the ball... Things of that nature. I personally never got the impression that effort was an issue with him. He definitely seemed boneheaded at times, but that's 50% of every player that ever suited up for the Bengals. Wes pointed out Lapham's silence on AJ Green doing drills before games. Hell... He talked about how amazing he looked. We all know now that there was nothing amazing about AJ Green from 2019 - 2020.

I didn't hear the podcast that PDub was referencing, but I can't get behind Lapham or anybody else being revisionist with the way things ended for Dunlap. To say he only cared about sacks is like saying Chad only cared about TDs and celebrating. Dunlap ran guys down from behind, stripped the ball, tipped the ball, made game saving plays, scored TDs, recorded interceptions, blocked kicks, brought energy, tried to involve the crowd, and he certainly wasn't bad against the run.

Wasn't saying his opinions are always correct...just saying that he's likely repeating things he's heard inside the building. So I don't judge him on what he says because I keep that in mind. Especially with the Gresh situation, because it seemed Marvin took issue with Gresh as well.

As much as we see, we really don't know compared to the guys in the building, and that may have been a question for Marv and others...at that time.

Tbh, I think some people just don't like the way the guy speaks and once people decide they don't like someone, they tend to only view them through a negative lens.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-26-2021, 12:54 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: But my other question and maybe year 1 it wouldn't be an issue. But is there enough room in the fragile ecosystem of a nfl locker room for 3 WR of that caliber. All these other teams with comparable WR groups seem to have vlear seating as far as where they all fit in the offense. Two's company but three's a crowd.

Why do people keep worrying about this? Every time the Bengals have been the most successful they’ve had 3 really good WR’s (Chad/TJ/Henry - AJ/Jones/Sanu + Eifert, etc). They clearly want to recreate the 2019 LSU offense, and that team spread the ball around plenty. Chase was obviously the big play guy, but Jefferson and Marshall had huge roles as well. Anyway, here’s what ZT had to say on the matter...

More on WRs... pic.twitter.com/duGJdgSfSQ

— Matt Minich (@CoachMinich) April 26, 2021

[*jason*]

(04-27-2021, 01:39 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Wasn't saying his opinions are always correct...just saying that he's likely repeating things he's heard inside the building. So I don't judge him on what he says because I keep that in mind. Especially with the Gresh situation, because it seemed Marvin took issue with Gresh as well.

As much as we see, we really don't know compared to the guys in the building, and that may have been a question for Marv and others...at that time.

Tbh, I think some people just don't like the way the guy speaks and once people decide they don't like someone, they tend to only view them through a negative lens.

Honestly I loved Lapham back in the day when I loved outta market, and could only really hear the Bengals on 700. That was the 1990s, and his style was comforting or something, and reminded me of growing up in southwest Ohio. He's worn on me though, and the little things have started to bother me over the years, and now his delivery drives me crazy. I still like Dan Hoard though.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-27-2021, 01:36 AM)jason Wrote: How good did AJ Green look to you at any point past October of 2018? Lapham was either lying, or doesn't know what he's talking about.

I'd also like to point out that Jermaine Gresham pancaked a prime Geno Atkins during the Oklahoma drill on the last Hard Knocks the Bengals appeared on. He may not have been a thinking man's player, or even very good, but I don't think he was soft.

I think Pdub is saying Gresh was sensitive to criticism. I saw this confirmed on numerous occasions. Its been years, so I can't remember who said it, but I remember that coming out of the organization. He was a Kevin Durant type.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-27-2021, 01:44 AM)jason Wrote: Honestly I loved Lapham back in the day when I loved outta market, and could only really hear the Bengals on 700. That was the 1990s, and his style was comforting or something, and reminded me of growing up in southwest Ohio. He's worn on me though, and the little things have started to bother me over the years, and now his delivery drives me crazy. I still like Dan Hoard though.

I find his style charming. He's like the Hornets announcers who fanboy all the time and get super excited. It's like watching a game with a buddy. I don't always need a sterile guy in the booth. Some of those guys are just boring.

But...opinions.

[*jason*]

(04-27-2021, 01:45 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think Pdub is saying Gresh was sensitive to criticism. I saw this confirmed on numerous occasions. Its been years, so I can't remember who said it, but I remember that coming out of the organization. He was a Kevin Durant type.

I'd honestly forgotten a lot of the details with the Lap/ Gresham incident myself. That was almost 7 years ago. I just looked it all back up. It happened mid December, and Gresham was dealing with a toe injury. Marvin Lewis at one point referred to it as painful but not debilitating. Lapham makes his comments about Jermaine not suiting up ( they were in the midst of a stretch where they really had to finish hard to make the playoffs) Lapham and Gresham have words from a distance on the air during the post game show. In March of 2015 (basically 90 days later) Gresham had surgery for a herniated disc in his back.

I guess Gresham could've possibly hurt his back off the field doing whatever between mid December and March, but it seems to me there's a pretty good chance that was a factor when he sat that mid December game out. Anybody with a bad back will testify.

All in all, I just remember thinking it was weak when Lapham spouted off like that on Gresham. The guy was hurt and couldn't go that day.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-27-2021, 02:06 AM)jason Wrote: I'd honestly forgotten a lot of the details with the Lap/ Gresham incident myself. That was almost 7 years ago. I just looked it all back up. It happened mid December, and Gresham was dealing with a toe injury. Marvin Lewis at one point referred to it as painful but not debilitating. Lapham makes his comments about Jermaine not suiting up ( they were in the midst of a stretch where they really had to finish hard to make the playoffs) Lapham and Gresham have words from a distance on the air during the post game show. In March of 2015 (basically 90 days later) Gresham had surgery for a herniated disc in his back.

I guess Gresham could've possibly hurt his back off the field doing whatever between mid December and March, but it seems to me there's a pretty good chance that was a factor when he sat that mid December game out. Anybody with a bad back will testify.

All in all, I just remember thinking it was weak when Lapham spouted off like that on Gresham. The guy was hurt and couldn't go that day.

Sounds accurate. Marv thought Gresh was milking the injury, Lap went off of Marv's word and said something, Gresh was sensitive and came at Lap about it. Then it turned out he had a herniated disk.

Like I said, Lap was just parroting what he heard. We as fans should be happy for the info. If anyone was wrong, it was Marvin. Or the team doctors not figuring out the herniated disc problem until later. Or maybe Gresh tried to conceal the injury because he was in a contract year. Hard telling.

Messy situation, but I can't look at all that and be too mad at Lap. He was just siding with the team.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-25-2021, 11:36 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I just brought this up in the draft forums. But if we draft Ja'marr Chase can someone name a comparable receiving core to that in the NFL?

I'm wondering if that's a good or bad thing? I would think it's a good thing but not one team having a receiving core like that would make you think there's a reason.

Receivers can be divas especially when they're not getting the ball. The only team I would think had something like that is Tampa Bay with Evans, Godwin and AB. But I had Mike Evans on my fantasy team and watching some of their games because of that fact even he was getting a bit salty and Tom Brady was his quarterback and they won the superbowl. What happens if your not winning and not getting the ball.

Maybe I'm reading way too much into but I've just found myself leaning Chase because I think thats the way its headed and I think it may be a legitimate concern. People say we need a #1 WR but Boyd and Higgins are just supposed to accept a diminished role? If you say they're roles won't change then how many pass attempts does Burrow have a game? 

Chase didn't get as many targets as Jefferson in the LSU offense because the slot WR is "featured".  Part of making the entire offense work is having the defense try to defend every inch of the field.  Chase would stretch it, but if you played off him, he could take a slant, break a tackle, and have a big gain.  

Chase, by all accounts, is a team-first guy.  Burrow referred to him as "a lot like me"...."always getting up early and working extra".  Neither Boyd or Higgins are ball-hogs, either.  There may be games where Chase gets 3 receptions, but has 50 yards and a TD.  That underneath stuff will be there for the taking if teams drop safeties to prevent Chase from burning them deep.  Higgins and Boyd should be two of the happiest Bengals if Chase is drafted as he will likely draw the top cover CB and also pull a safety toward him.  The other WRs, TEs, and RBs will feast.  

[TecmoBengals]

I know this is a "WR" thread, but people have brought up Lapham...

I lived in Colorado for awhile and there was this sports talk show hosted by two dudes named D-Mac & Big Al (Big Al being former Bengals player Alfred Williams); Mark Schlereth was also part of the show for awhile. D-Mac and Big Al were a hilarious pairing and their show was top-notch. They'd frequently play Bengals-homer sound bits of Lapham not even calling plays, but just randomly cheering, screaming, and grunting during a big on the field moment for the Bengals. It was pretty funny how long they kept the "make fun of Lapham" bit up. I appreciated the humor even more since I was in the know as a Bengals fan.

Big Al was a great listen. Every once in awhile he'd talk about the Bengals ownership being cheap and how he was a bad player because the Bengals never had NFL quality coaches to coach him up.

[*Nately120*]

(04-27-2021, 01:44 AM)jason Wrote: Honestly I loved Lapham back in the day when I loved outta market, and could only really hear the Bengals on 700. That was the 1990s, and his style was comforting or something, and reminded me of growing up in southwest Ohio. He's worn on me though, and the little things have started to bother me over the years, and now his delivery drives me crazy. I still like Dan Hoard though.

Lapham and Hoard are a duo straight out of a comedy skit.  The pencil necked geek attempting to call the action while the former jock screams and bellows gutteral nonsense over him. 

It's fun trying to figure out what happened based upon the tone of Laps roaring.  

Daltons pass heads towards the endzone *BLOORRRGH!!!!!* 

Ok, is thay an exuberant yell indicating a TD or a pained yell indicating an INT?

[TecmoBengals]

(04-27-2021, 10:10 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Lapham and Hoard are a duo straight out of a comedy skit.  The pencil necked geek attempting to call the action while the former jock screams and bellows gutteral nonsense over him. 

It's fun trying to figure out what happened based upon the tone of Laps roaring.  

Daltons pass heads towards the endzone *BLOORRRGH!!!!!* 

Ok, is thay an exuberant yell indicating a TD or a pained yell indicating an INT?

Funny how you typed this as my post right above yours is exactly what two Colorado sports hosts were saying about the Bengals broadcast team. I'd almost think you were D-Mac or Big Al (I kid lol).

[bengaloo]

Before the Skins game when Burrow got hurt Higgins was averaging 67 ypg and Boyd was averaging 69 ypg. Both of them were on pace to get close to or beyond 1100 total yards, and Higgins was getting better every game until Burrow went down. After Burrow got hurt starting with the Skins game, Higgins averaged 43 ypg and Boyd averaged 30 ypg. Big difference.

Bottom line, we have 2 pro bowl level WR's on the team who were both on pace to get over 1000 before Burrow got hurt and one was a rookie. Add to that how many sacks Burrow had while he was playing and those are exceptional numbers. I personally think Auden Tate can be at least as productive if not more than AJ Green was last year if given the chance. He is no Green in Green's prime, but he can be a very solid WR and red zone threat.

Chase would put the WR core in position to be one of the best in the NFL within the next year or 2 no doubt but do we really need that is the biggest question in my mind. If we can get Mixon to being a 1200+ yard RB it would be more helpful than having the best 3 WR tandem in the NFL in my opinion.

[*Nately120*]

I just want to reiterate how nice it is to actually be talking about Chase and Higgins being good WRs for us at a time when we are normally attempting to declare guys like Armon Binns, Rashaun Simonise, Denarius Moore, John Ross, and about 100 guys who never made it off our bench to be UNCOVERABLE by an NFL defense made of mere mortals.

[PDub80]

(04-27-2021, 10:09 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I know this is a "WR" thread, but people have brought up Lapham...

I lived in Colorado for awhile and there was this sports talk show hosted by  two dudes named D-Mac & Big Al (Big Al being former Bengals player Alfred Williams); Mark Schlereth was also part of the show for awhile. D-Mac and Big Al were a hilarious pairing and their show was top-notch. They'd frequently play Bengals-homer sound bits of Lapham not even calling plays, but just randomly cheering, screaming, and grunting during a big on the field moment for the Bengals. It was pretty funny how long they kept the "make fun of Lapham" bit up. I appreciated the humor even more since I was in the know as a Bengals fan.

Big Al was a great listen. Every once in awhile he'd talk about the Bengals ownership being cheap and how he was a bad player because the Bengals never had NFL quality coaches to coach him up.

(04-27-2021, 10:10 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Lapham and Hoard are a duo straight out of a comedy skit.  The pencil necked geek attempting to call the action while the former jock screams and bellows gutteral nonsense over him. 

It's fun trying to figure out what happened based upon the tone of Laps roaring.  

Daltons pass heads towards the endzone *BLOORRRGH!!!!!* 

Ok, is thay an exuberant yell indicating a TD or a pained yell indicating an INT?

The most exciting 3 yard loss in football is a Bengals run.

Hoard: (calmly, almost clinically as if he were reading it off a page) Burrow under center, one deep behind him in the backfield, the snap, hand off to Mixo....
Lapham: Go! Go! Go! Go! Ah!
Hoard: (again, as if he were reading the periodic table) Joe Mixon with the carry for a 3 yard loss and the Bengals will have to punt.

^ LOVE it. It's honestly hilarious and my buddies and I sometimes just do random Dave Lapham style voice mails on non-football things or live Lap play by play of real life events that are incredibly boring or turn out poorly. It's a fun time.

[*jason*]

(04-27-2021, 10:47 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Before the Skins game when Burrow got hurt Higgins was averaging 67 ypg and Boyd was averaging 69 ypg. Both of them were on pace to get close to or beyond 1100 total yards, and Higgins was getting better every game until Burrow went down. After Burrow got hurt starting with the Skins game, Higgins averaged 43 ypg and Boyd averaged 30 ypg. Big difference.

Bottom line, we have 2 pro bowl level WR's on the team who were both on pace to get over 1000 before Burrow got hurt and one was a rookie. Add to that how many sacks Burrow had while he was playing and those are exceptional numbers. I personally think Auden Tate can be at least as productive if not more than AJ Green was last year if given the chance. He is no Green in Green's prime, but he can be a very solid WR and red zone threat.

Chase would put the WR core in position to be one of the best in the NFL within the next year or 2 no doubt but do we really need that is the biggest question in my mind. If we can get Mixon to being a 1200+ yard RB it would be more helpful than having the best 3 WR tandem in the NFL in my opinion.

Is Higgins drop in yards per game factoring in the Steelers game (where we decided Gio and Finley's legs were gonna be the offense), and him missing week 17? I remember looking at his game logs, and (those 2 games aside) his drop-off didn't look too severe. He'd have no doubt been better if Joe finished the season, but he didn't disappear.