(04-27-2021, 01:36 AM)jason Wrote: How good did AJ Green look to you at any point past October of 2018? Lapham was either lying, or doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'd also like to point out that Jermaine Gresham pancaked a prime Geno Atkins during the Oklahoma drill on the last Hard Knocks the Bengals appeared on. He may not have been a thinking man's player, or even very good, but I don't think he was soft.
I believe Lapham talking about AJ was 2019. This was the year he hurt himself at UD, which happened right in front of me. Dre K did it. Got tangled up with him trying to be a bad ass on a ball neither of them were going to get. Dre K then tried to also act hurt in order to not get ripped for what he did, like when kids do after they know they hurt the person they were playing with. AJ leaves the field and then, after everything blows over, Dre K is up walking around.
I think Gresham could have been awesome, but didn't have that dog in him to cross the finish line with that. I think he got soft as he made money and the team reset. I didn't love the locker room he was drafted into and Marvin ran a lose ship with "his guys".
Ok, so, when you read the below from me... remember who your inside guy is
I've met Dave plenty of times. He is brutally honest with people, is happy to talk Bengals with anyone, and genuinely a super nice, good guy. I was at a closed Bengals practice with only a handful of fans/media in attendance a few years back - Gresham, Shipley, Dunlap, Atkins rookie year. 2010, if I recall.
I asked him, one on one, about Jerome Simpson once and why he couldn't find his way onto the field. Dave's answer, and I'll never forget how candid he was: "He's a dumbass. Most athletically gifted wide receiver the Bengals have maybe ever had, but he cannot understand even basic NFL level offense concepts, route trees, or work with Carson to make changes at the line. He's lost and not smart enough to do anything but run the one route given in the huddle. He only knows Chad's spot and he's not playing over Chad. So, basically, he's a dumbass who doesn't put the work in mentally to be on the field over anyone else. Too busy goofing off to be bothered by it."
And you know what... he was right.
After the practice was done Marvin spoke to us all there on the field... BTW, it was AMAZING to see this all up close and at full speed. It was as if Carson could teleport a ball into a receiver's hands, like the football was Night Crawler from the X-Men... "BAMF!" and it was there... Marvin was asked questions about passing more due to NFL trends and his answer was so disheartening given how the league was changing. Marvin sort of quoted the old Woody Hayes saying "Only 3 things happen when you throw the football, and 2 of them are bad. We want to be big up front and run the ball, control the clock, and play great defense". I was floored because it was obvious the NFL rule changes were giving way a different style of football and that approach wasn't going to work... ESPECIALLY with the talent the Bengals had on offense.
Anyway, at the end, the team was offered a chance to go through with us all and sign autographs. Literally EVERY member of the defense came through and were super polite. Asked us questions about ourselves, said thank you for coming out, spoke to kids, etc. They were all very very nice. Jordan Shipley came through. Super nice... But the rest of the prima donna offense guys? Nope. They just walked off the field. Not going to bother with the fans. Gresham was the only rookie to not sign. He walked in with Carson and the other guys. I'm not sure he ever really wanted to be in Cincy.
(04-27-2021, 10:47 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Before the Skins game when Burrow got hurt Higgins was averaging 67 ypg and Boyd was averaging 69 ypg. Both of them were on pace to get close to or beyond 1100 total yards, and Higgins was getting better every game until Burrow went down. After Burrow got hurt starting with the Skins game, Higgins averaged 43 ypg and Boyd averaged 30 ypg. Big difference.
Bottom line, we have 2 pro bowl level WR's on the team who were both on pace to get over 1000 before Burrow got hurt and one was a rookie. Add to that how many sacks Burrow had while he was playing and those are exceptional numbers. I personally think Auden Tate can be at least as productive if not more than AJ Green was last year if given the chance. He is no Green in Green's prime, but he can be a very solid WR and red zone threat.
Chase would put the WR core in position to be one of the best in the NFL within the next year or 2 no doubt but do we really need that is the biggest question in my mind. If we can get Mixon to being a 1200+ yard RB it would be more helpful than having the best 3 WR tandem in the NFL in my opinion.
I agree and this was really the question I was trying to ask. I don't think its exaggerating to say Boyd has developed into a top 5 slot WR and Higgins showed alot of potential. It's hard to say right now how good Higgins can be because it was his first year and he didn't have Burrow all year. So could he be a top 10 WR or a top 20 WR I don't know. If we draft Chase at 5 I think the hope is he's a top 10 WR in the league. Which would give us one of the top WR cores in the NFL. But that's alot of guys that want the ball in there hands at one position group and all feel they are on an even playing field with each other.
Or do you draft a guy a little later who knows his role is to compliment the other guys and focus on building a front that can run consistently which can be just as good for the passing game. Plus take a little pressure off Joe Burrow. No matter what happens I believe we'll add to the oline but as I've heard mentioned in the past no matter how good your line is the more you drop back to pass or become 1 dimensional the more you put your quarterback at risk.
(04-27-2021, 12:29 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I believe Lapham talking about AJ was 2019. This was the year he hurt himself at UD, which happened right in front of me. Dre K did it. Got tangled up with him trying to be a bad ass on a ball neither of them were going to get. Dre K then tried to also act hurt in order to not get ripped for what he did, like when kids do after they know they hurt the person they were playing with. AJ leaves the field and then, after everything blows over, Dre K is up walking around.
I think Gresham could have been awesome, but didn't have that dog in him to cross the finish line with that. I think he got soft as he made money and the team reset. I didn't love the locker room he was drafted into and Marvin ran a lose ship with "his guys".
Ok, so, when you read the below from me... remember who your inside guy is
I've met Dave plenty of times. He is brutally honest with people, is happy to talk Bengals with anyone, and genuinely a super nice, good guy. I was at a closed Bengals practice with only a handful of fans/media in attendance a few years back - Gresham, Shipley, Dunlap, Atkins rookie year. 2010, if I recall.
I asked him, one on one, about Jerome Simpson once and why he couldn't find his way onto the field. Dave's answer, and I'll never forget how candid he was: "He's a dumbass. Most athletically gifted wide receiver the Bengals have maybe ever had, but he cannot understand even basic NFL level offense concepts, route trees, or work with Carson to make changes at the line. He's lost and not smart enough to do anything but run the one route given in the huddle. He only knows Chad's spot and he's not playing over Chad. So, basically, he's a dumbass who doesn't put the work in mentally to be on the field over anyone else. Too busy goofing off to be bothered by it."
And you know what... he was right.
After the practice was done Marvin spoke to us all there on the field... BTW, it was AMAZING to see this all up close and at full speed. It was as if Carson could teleport a ball into a receiver's hands, like the football was Night Crawler from the X-Men... "BAMF!" and it was there... Marvin was asked questions about passing more due to NFL trends and his answer was so disheartening given how the league was changing. Marvin sort of quoted the old Woody Hayes saying "Only 3 things happen when you throw the football, and 2 of them are bad. We want to be big up front and run the ball, control the clock, and play great defense". I was floored because it was obvious the NFL rule changes were giving way a different style of football and that approach wasn't going to work... ESPECIALLY with the talent the Bengals had on offense.
Anyway, at the end, the team was offered a chance to go through with us all and sign autographs. Literally EVERY member of the defense came through and were super polite. Asked us questions about ourselves, said thank you for coming out, spoke to kids, etc. They were all very very nice. Jordan Shipley came through. Super nice... But the rest of the prima donna offense guys? Nope. They just walked off the field. Not going to bother with the fans. Gresham was the only rookie to not sign. He walked in with Carson and the other guys. I'm not sure he ever really wanted to be in Cincy.
I like hearing some of your opinions of Lapham and or experiences of meeting or listening to him on the radio. I never really listen radio but I've heard enough to get the humor. That practice experience sounds very cool. I went to the first practice of the 2010 training camp and they signed TO after the morning practice and he was there for the afternoon practice. I know he sucked for us but it was still cool getting his autograph because he was such a big personality. The other thing that stuck out to me was just how fast Chad Johnson's feet were going thru the agility drills. That seems like an odd thing to be impressed with but they were so fast it really shocked.
Makes sense with Jerome Simpson. The two things he'll be rembered for are doing a straight up front flip over that Cardinals player and getting busted with a couple pounds in the mail. Could be worse things to be remembered for I suppose.
(04-27-2021, 01:40 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Why do people keep worrying about this? Every time the Bengals have been the most successful they’ve had 3 really good WR’s (Chad/TJ/Henry - AJ/Jones/Sanu + Eifert, etc). They clearly want to recreate the 2019 LSU offense, and that team spread the ball around plenty. Chase was obviously the big play guy, but Jefferson and Marshall had huge roles as well. Anyway, here’s what ZT had to say on the matter...
I guess it depends on what your ultimate goal is. Most, if not all, teams that win the Super Bowl have great O-lines. Some have had great WRs, but for the most part the QB is more important.
(04-27-2021, 05:47 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I went to the first practice of the 2010 training camp and they signed TO after the morning practice and he was there for the afternoon practice. I know he sucked for us
Sorry, but I gotta correct this.
Terrell Owens was pretty damn good for us that year. In fact, I'd argue he was really good.
He had 983 yards and 9 TD's in only 14 games. Fwiw, he only started 11 games so I'm not sure if he was hurt in others or what. But I think it's safe to say he missed more than 2 games of playing time.
Keep in mind, he accomplished these numbers on an offense that was: 22nd in points scored, 20th in yards, and 29th in TD's. Oh, and Bob Bratowski was the coordinator. (Bonus points for any offensive player subjected to that man's offense post 2006)
You start to projected those numbers out with only 2 more games and he sits at 1,123 yards and 10 TD's. And what's even crazier is he did this at the age of 37.
This probably sounds like I'm a huge TO fan but I'm really not. (I think the dude is kind of a chode). But I think a lot of people associate him with being terrible because that team was such a disappointment.
I guess it depends on what your ultimate goal is. Most, if not all, teams that win the Super Bowl have great O-lines. Some have had great WRs, but for the most part the QB is more important.
And nobody is saying we shouldn’t try to build a great OL. We’ve done it before without a top 5 pick, and we can do it again.
(04-27-2021, 06:28 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Sorry, but I gotta correct this.
Terrell Owens was pretty damn good for us that year. In fact, I'd argue he was really good.
He had 983 yards and 9 TD's in only 14 games. Fwiw, he only started 11 games so I'm not sure if he was hurt in others or what. But I think it's safe to say he missed more than 2 games of playing time.
Keep in mind, he accomplished these numbers on an offense that was: 22nd in points scored, 20th in yards, and 29th in TD's. Oh, and Bob Bratowski was the coordinator. (Bonus points for any offensive player subjected to that man's offense post 2006)
You start to projected those numbers out with only 2 more games and he sits at 1,123 yards and 10 TD's. And what's even crazier is he did this at the age of 37.
This probably sounds like I'm a huge TO fan but I'm really not. (I think the dude is kind of a chode). But I think a lot of people associate him with being terrible because that team was such a disappointment.
Your 100 percent correct. I just remember the Bengals were bad and didn't remember his individual #s.
(04-27-2021, 06:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And nobody is saying we shouldn’t try to build a great OL. We’ve done it before without a top 5 pick, and we can do it again.
Chad, TJ, Henry, Washington, Tab Perry - 0 first round picks
AJ, Marvin Jones, Sanu - 1 first round pick and a bunch of later guys.
And nobody is saying we shouldn't try to build a great WR corps. We've done it before with multiple 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th rounders playing with a franchise QB and we can do it again,.
(04-27-2021, 06:41 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Chad, TJ, Henry, Washington, Tab Perry - 0 first round picks
AJ, Marvin Jones, Sanu - 1 first round pick and a bunch of later guys.
And nobody is saying we shouldn't try to build a great WR corps. We've done it before with multiple 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th rounders playing with a franchise QB and we can do it again,.
Ofc it’s possible, but I happen to agree with the team that the depth in this draft at OL is much better than it is for outside WR’s. And I also think it’s more likely we’ll find another Clint Boling type player in the 4th, than it is we’ll find another Marvin Jones in the 5th. Especially in this draft.
(04-27-2021, 07:14 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Ofc it’s possible, but I happen to agree with the team that the depth in this draft at OL is much better than it is for outside WR’s. And I also think it’s more likely we’ll find another Clint Boling type player in the 4th, than it is we’ll find another Marvin Jones in the 5th. Especially in this draft.
That's the unknown and that's why there is so much discussion. If we had a crystal ball and we knew that a later round guy would turn into Marvin, it's an easy pick.
Hell, you just don't know. Either way, they can't really go wrong with the first pick. Its the next 5 that they need to hit on 1-2 starters.
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