Is Collinsworth underrated as a Bengals great?

[Murdock2420]

I think Fred hit on it pretty well. The issue with Collinsworth was injuries and a short career.

When healthy, he was great hitting 1000 yards 4 times, and this is back in the 80's when they would mug the WR's and QB's.

He just physically got beat up too much so it's a case of we'll never know what could have been.

[TecmoBengals]

Collinsworth had a great career & ranks behind Chad Johnson, A.J. Green, Isaac Curtis, and Carl Pickens for all time receiving yards with the Bengals. The original poster mentioned bringing up other underrated Bengals.

How about the WR who ranks just below Collinsworth in receiving yards - Eddie Brown. Was he underrated?

[impactplaya]

(04-23-2021, 11:44 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Collinsworth had a great career & ranks behind Chad Johnson, A.J. Green, Isaac Curtis, and Carl Pickens for all time receiving yards with the Bengals. The original poster mentioned bringing up other underrated Bengals.

How about the WR who ranks just below Collinsworth in receiving yards - Eddie Brown. Was he underrated?

Eddie Brown yep under rated.
He still holds a team record that will never be broken.
He averaged 24.3 yds a catch in that 1988 SB season.
He was drafted same year as Rice. 
So.He does get overshadowed obviously

Think about it 24.3 YPC.
He was a big time clutch WR too. 

[fredtoast]

(04-23-2021, 12:27 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Think about it 24.3 YPC.
He was a big time clutch WR too. 

 He is one of only 2 players in NFL history to have a season with over 1250 receiving yards and average over 24.0 per catch.

I can't easily access all the stats from 1988, but just looking at his longest reception for each game he had at least 5 receptions of 60+ yards and 4 more of 30+.  There were only 2 games where he did not have at least one catch of 24+ yards.  He and Boomer just scorched defenses that year.

[fredtoast]

(04-23-2021, 12:27 PM)impactplaya Wrote: He was drafted same year as Rice. 

And won Offensive Rookie of the Year (53 rec, 942 yds, 17.8 avg, 8 td) over Rice (49-927-18.9-3)

[Shake n Blake]

(04-23-2021, 09:13 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: constantly had bad things to say about the bengals.   Kinda like boomer.

Good players though

Those old guys are just prideful. They know that people associate the Bengals with THEM...and the Bengals have been pretty embarrassing for most of the last 30 years. I'm sure they want the Bengals to win. It seems obvious to me. They were both giddy to get Joe Burrow and admitted as much.

So clearly they care, but they're also ticked the Bengals havent won a playoff game since they were playing.

[impactplaya]

(04-23-2021, 12:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote:  He is one of only 2 players in NFL history to have a season with over 1250 receiving yards and average over 24.0 per catch.

I can't easily access all the stats from 1988, but just looking at his longest reception for each game he had at least 5 receptions of 60+ yards and 4 more of 30+.  There were only 2 games where he did not have at least one catch of 24+ yards.  He and Boomer just scorched defenses that year.

I recall he suffered a neck injury vs the Colts I think in pre-season. He had 3 to 5 years left in him IMO if he doesnt get hurt.
So he had to retire. 
But he simply just ran past CBs and S. 
He was like a thicker Anthony Carter and very similar to
Stephone Paige , Wesley Walker, and Roy Green

[Shake n Blake]

(04-22-2021, 10:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1. Kyle Cook, OC Before the 2012 season Pat Kirwan wrote an article about offensive linemen that had not gotten the Pro Bowl credit they deserve. He had Cook #1 at OC..... "1. Kyle Cook, Cincinnati Bengals: Offensive line coach Paul Alexander knew he found a very good player when the undrafted rookie free agent was signed from Michigan State in 2008. Four years and 48 starts later, Cook has given up one sack every 12 games. " Unfortunately Cook suffered a foot injury in preseason that year and never fully recovered. He played the first four games before going on IR. He returned in 2013 and started all 16 games, but he was not the same player. He retired after the season.


2. Rodney Holman, TE In Holeman's era tight ends were more blocker and less receiver. Holeman was not a big bruiser, but he thrived on the Wyche/Esiason teams. He was one of the top TEs in the league for a six year stretch ('85-'90). Over that period he ranked #1 among TEs in TDs and #3 in receiving yards. Among the 30 TEs that had at least 100 receptions he ranked #1 in yards per catch. Holman went to three Pro Bowls ('88-'90). He was second in receptions on our '88 Super Bowl team, and he was the leading receiver in our last playoff victory.

3. Dan Wilkinson, DT/DE Never lived up to his draft hype, but was one of the best Bengal DTs ever. Led AFC interior linemen in sacks in '95, and his total of 20 from '94 to '96 was 6th among NFL DT/NT. Moved to DE in '97. His true value was reflected in the fact that when we traded him to Washington we got a 1st and a 3rd pick in return. Played 13 seasons in the NFL starting 182 games. Gets a lot of hate for being an underachiever and calling Cincinnati a "racist city".

(04-23-2021, 11:44 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: How about the WR who ranks just below Collinsworth in receiving yards - Eddie Brown. Was he underrated?

Dan Wilkinson is always one of my favs when this subject comes up. Like Justin Smith, he was a victim of hype and expectations. Both were great, but because they didn't single handedly turn the defense around and post 15 sack seasons, people unfairly slapped them with bust labels.

Eddie Brown is another guy that posted better stats than I expected. That 88 season was one for the ages, and his career stats are right there with Curtis, Pickens, Collinsworth and Housh.

I'll throw out Peko, Pdub (who flashed serious potential prior to injury), Tony McGee and Daryl Williams. Tory James quietly had a great run for us as well.

[CoachGeorge]

(04-23-2021, 04:43 AM)kevin Wrote: Young people like to think the athletes today are the best ever. All generations of young people do this. I did it when I was young. It just isn't so.

Yes it is so. Today’s athletes are bigger, stronger, faster, more dedicated, more technical and have advantages that players of old simply didn’t have. Training, nutrition, film study, etc. I’m an old guy but reality is reality. My all-time favorite guard (who was named to an All-Decade) team played at 6’2” 254 pounds. Different game today.

[TheBengalsMind]

You know something that's underrated is the Bengals ability to draft QB's. Seriously look at the trouble that teams like the Jets and Bears and numerous others have had finding a QB.

Seriously, we started by drafting the single greatest QB talent in NFL history with Greg Cook, at least according to Bill Walsh and Paul Brown.

We replace him, after his injury, with arguably one of the 5 most accurate passers in NFL history Ken Anderson. My favorite player! A HOF in my book.

We replaced him with Boomer Esiason, one of the five most cerebral QB's in NFL history. A borderline HOF'er.

We then have Jeff Blake and his moon ball. A above average QB in his time with us.

We then go to Jon Kitna, comeback player of the year, and great mentor and also above average QB in his time with us.

Then we go to Carson Palmer, who had a beautiful deep ball, and another borderline HOF'er.

Then we go to above average QB Andy Dalton who was one of the best overachiever's ever. Very solid and steady QB.

Then we get the hometown hero Joey Burrow. Heaven sent for Cincinnati!

Yeah, we had some David Klinglers and Akili Smiths in there, but most franchises would die to have had that QB play over 50 year's. Heck, we even started the legend of Fitz Magic. Lol

Which is kind of depressing in a way knowing we have exactly zero Super Bowl's to show for it.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-23-2021, 05:36 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: Yes it is so.  Today’s athletes are bigger, stronger, faster,  more dedicated, more technical and have advantages that players of old simply didn’t have.  Training, nutrition, film study, etc.  I’m an old guy but reality is reality.  My all-time favorite guard (who was named to an All-Decade) team played at 6’2” 254 pounds.  Different game today.

Lineman got bigger, yes. Weight training and nutrition vastly improved.

But the idea that players "evolved" as athletes in just 20-30 years is complete BS.

Plenty of guys were running 4.2 and 4.3 forties back in the day. Deion and Bo are still probably the 2 best athletes to ever lace them up.

Guys like Elway and Marino had better arms than 90% of today's QB's. Cunningham and Young were just as good at running the football as just about anyone playing now. People make the mistake of looking at the offensive explosions and thinking that = improved athletes. You have to account for all the rule changes. How good would the elite guys of yesteryear look now? Collinsworth was talking about the gloves receivers use now. It's basically like using stick-em.

[Burma]

Not in his own head.

[sonofstat]

(04-22-2021, 10:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1. Kyle Cook, OC Before the 2012 season Pat Kirwan wrote an article about offensive linemen that had not gotten the Pro Bowl credit they deserve. He had Cook #1 at OC..... "1. Kyle Cook, Cincinnati Bengals: Offensive line coach Paul Alexander knew he found a very good player when the undrafted rookie free agent was signed from Michigan State in 2008. Four years and 48 starts later, Cook has given up one sack every 12 games. " Unfortunately Cook suffered a foot injury in preseason that year and never fully recovered. He played the first four games before going on IR. He returned in 2013 and started all 16 games, but he was not the same player. He retired after the season.


2. Rodney Holman, TE In Holeman's era tight ends were more blocker and less receiver. Holeman was not a big bruiser, but he thrived on the Wyche/Esiason teams. He was one of the top TEs in the league for a six year stretch ('85-'90). Over that period he ranked #1 among TEs in TDs and #3 in receiving yards. Among the 30 TEs that had at least 100 receptions he ranked #1 in yards per catch. Holman went to three Pro Bowls ('88-'90). He was second in receptions on our '88 Super Bowl team, and he was the leading receiver in our last playoff victory.

3. Dan Wilkinson, DT/DE Never lived up to his draft hype, but was one of the best Bengal DTs ever. Led AFC interior linemen in sacks in '95, and his total of 20 from '94 to '96 was 6th among NFL DT/NT. Moved to DE in '97. His true value was reflected in the fact that when we traded him to Washington we got a 1st and a 3rd pick in return. Played 13 seasons in the NFL starting 182 games. Gets a lot of hate for being an underachiever and calling Cincinnati a "racist city".

Great shout with Rodney Holman   - superb blocker and would have caught a lot more but the late 80's offense was stacked with options..not enough football's to go around.

In terms of greater recognition I would also shout out for David Fulcher.

Not many times you could say a Bengal defender was consistently the best in his position in the league - not only did he have great production at Strong Safety but kinda broke the mould with his LB size too.  

I always felt whenever everyone was raving about Seattle's Kam Chancellor in the Legion of Boom they should have mentioned #33