Welcome Jackson Carman New Bengals OL

[Older Than You Too]

(05-29-2021, 03:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Not the way to be man. You should be hoping Taylor finally gets it and we make the Playoffs and win a game at least.

Sounds like you are hoping for failure just to get rid of him.


I hated on PA probably more than anyone but he did have some good O-lines. But that was mostly cause the players he got 
were really talented in Willie, Levi, Bobbie, Steinbach, Whit, Braham etc. These guys were polished, when he tried to teach up
unpolished players he just couldn't do it and PA had a monster ego which was his worst problem.


I am not forgetting that is for damn sure which is why I like Pollack so much. If you don't like Pollack either you got problems.

We will see.

1. Taylor is a loser, he'll never win a playoff game here. Hell, I doubt he ever has a winning record here. We'll need another Marvin type to get us out of this second lost decade.

2. I'm just a realist. We brought Zac in to get us over the Marv hump, but after two years of him shitting the bed we're talking about a 1-3 year rebuild. He's had three drafts with his inept fingerprints all over it and two of the biggest FA spending sprees we've ever seen. It all resulted in a regression that makes Dave Shula look semi competent.

3. PA is a moot point at this time. Everyone wanted him gone. I gave him his props for what he did, but he was past his prime. 

4. Pollock is better than Turner, but he's not the cure all everyone here seems to think. That great Dallas line he had, he inherited. He didn't magically make our line better in 2018. He didn't do much for the Jets either in his two years there.

Like your last line says, we will see. But if anyone has delusions of grandeur that Zac and co. are finally gonna just "get it" in the third year of an historically bad run... eh.

[Essex Johnson]

(05-01-2021, 01:34 PM)Waite Hoyt p Wrote: You know the interesting thing is if Carmen would have went in third round and Ossia in the 2 round I wonder if people would still be griping.

I don;t see if someone is discussing who we drafted with position and where in the draft is griping, I see it as a different individual perspective in analysing the draft for team need, where a player was drafted. Myself I have settled on rolling the dice with drafting Carman when we did even if most projections had him  into 3rd round. What I am more concerned about was passing on our first two 4th round picks for a Oline and waiting till end of 4th round to pick another Olineman .

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(05-31-2021, 10:06 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I don;t see if someone is discussing who we drafted with position and where in the draft is griping, I see it as a different individual perspective in analysing the draft for team need, where a player was drafted. Myself I have settled on rolling the dice with drafting Carman when we did even if most projections had him  into 3rd round. What I am more concerned about was passing on our first two 4th round picks for a Oline and waiting till end of 4th round to pick another Olineman .

I’m pretty happy with Smith in the 4th though I don’t remember who went before him in between all those picks. Did you have a specific person in mind we could have grabbed?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-29-2021, 03:30 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Agree with all your points, but wanted to just say how much I still miss Rich Braham. Dude was a beast and one of the most underrated Bengals ever in my eyes. 

Yes, Braham might be our most underrated O-lineman of all time. He was our rock in the middle.

Damn bone bruise.

(05-29-2021, 06:52 PM)Joelist Wrote: I don't know anyone on here who thinks it was wrong to get rid of Piano Man when we did. He clearly had lost the script on teaching effective line technique and his pounding the table for Ogbuehi and Bodine was a death knell too.

That said, this does not instantly make him a complete idiot on NFL linemen. He is a consultant nowadays on offensive lines and linemen and a lot of teams use his services. Also Big Willie was high on Carman too, and if you look at the scouting before and after he had his private workouts the ones after had him as high second / low first while the ones before were almost all second round. He went where he should have been taken.

All true, hated on PA more then about anybody but he isn't a complete idiot. Has too big of an ego though and doesn't 
learn from his mistakes. Dude is stubborn as hell and that doesn't mix well with the owner who is also stubborn. I love 
how Pollack learns as he goes from other OL coaches and played the position himself at a high level.

Willie knows whats up with OL and Carman was on my list right behind Eichenberg in my top 6 OL, I only had Sewell, 
Slater, Darrisaw, Vera Tucker and Eichenberg ahead of Carman. Who knows who will be better...

(05-29-2021, 07:01 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I kind of want Zac gone because my expectations thus far is he doesn’t have what it takes, but he’s still the bengals head coach and I will respect him and hope he takes us to the promised land until he’s no longer the coach. We should all hope the best for our team members. Don’t like Carman? I don’t see why anyone wouldn’t hope he’s a perennial all pro and future hall of famer for us.

Same way man, same way. Just hope the light comes on for Zac, he is young, could happen. Hope it does.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-31-2021, 02:59 AM)Older Than You Too Wrote: 1. Taylor is a loser, he'll never win a playoff game here. Hell, I doubt he ever has a winning record here. We'll need another Marvin type to get us out of this second lost decade.

2. I'm just a realist. We brought Zac in to get us over the Marv hump, but after two years of him shitting the bed we're talking about a 1-3 year rebuild. He's had three drafts with his inept fingerprints all over it and two of the biggest FA spending sprees we've ever seen. It all resulted in a regression that makes Dave Shula look semi competent.

3. PA is a moot point at this time. Everyone wanted him gone. I gave him his props for what he did, but he was past his prime. 

4. Pollock is better than Turner, but he's not the cure all everyone here seems to think. That great Dallas line he had, he inherited. He didn't magically make our line better in 2018. He didn't do much for the Jets either in his two years there.

Like your last line says, we will see. But if anyone has delusions of grandeur that Zac and co. are finally gonna just "get it" in the third year of an historically bad run... eh.

I want better then a Marvin type, agree that Taylor has been terrible so far. I just have to hope being so young is what has held 
him back and not having the players to fit his scheme. Bottom line is this is Taylor's make or break year, make the Playoffs or see
you later pal. It is Pollack, not pollock, he ain't a fish. It isn't a coincidence that the Dallas line fell apart after Pollack left and PA 
took over. Coaching matters. Pollack is a good coach, both PA and Turner are not.

Youth is what Zac has on his side. Lou is the coach who has had the most help in FA here and has sucked it up. Wanted this guy 
gone after last season and think this is our biggest mistake in keeping him around.

[Essex Johnson]

(05-31-2021, 10:57 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I’m pretty happy with Smith in the 4th though I don’t remember who went before him in between all those picks. Did you have a specific person in mind we could have grabbed?

Less about person more about waiting till end of 4th and passing twice.

[Bengalholic]

(05-31-2021, 05:43 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Less about person more about waiting till end of 4th and passing twice.

Only 3 o-linemen were taken between the Bengals 1st 4th round pick and their last (C- Drew Dalman, T- Dan Moore and T- Josh Ball). Sample and Shelvin provided much greater value than any of those 3, IMO.

James Hudson (who was taken before the Bengals 1st pick in the 4th) and D'Ante Smith were the best of the bunch in the 4th round when you consider overall talent and potential. 

The Bengals were able to land one of them, and still build the d-line as well with 2 very good additions. I feel like the 4th round played out extremely well.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-31-2021, 06:23 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Only 3 o-linemen were taken between the Bengals 1st 4th round pick and their last (C- Drew Dalman, T- Dan Moore and T- Josh Ball). Sample and Shelvin provided much greater value than any of those 3, IMO.

James Hudson (who was taken before the Bengals 1st pick in the 4th) and D'Ante Smith were the best of the bunch in the 4th round when you consider overall talent and potential. 

The Bengals were able to land one of them, and still build the d-line as well with 2 very good additions. I feel like the 4th round played out extremely well.

Agreed. The 4th round really made our draft honestly. I’m actually super high on Smith, and if he can put on enough weight and develop into a starter within a couple years that pick is going to be a home run.

[wanga]

(05-31-2021, 02:59 AM)Older Than You Too Wrote: 1. Taylor is a loser, he'll never win a playoff game here. Hell, I doubt he ever has a winning record here. We'll need another Marvin type to get us out of this second lost decade.

2. I'm just a realist. We brought Zac in to get us over the Marv hump, but after two years of him shitting the bed we're talking about a 1-3 year rebuild. He's had three drafts with his inept fingerprints all over it and two of the biggest FA spending sprees we've ever seen. It all resulted in a regression that makes Dave Shula look semi competent.

3. PA is a moot point at this time. Everyone wanted him gone. I gave him his props for what he did, but he was past his prime. 

4. Pollock is better than Turner, but he's not the cure all everyone here seems to think. That great Dallas line he had, he inherited. He didn't magically make our line better in 2018. He didn't do much for the Jets either in his two years there.

Like your last line says, we will see. But if anyone has delusions of grandeur that Zac and co. are finally gonna just "get it" in the third year of an historically bad run... eh.

 Well, tbf, he’s not that big a loser he has to post on Internet forums though. 

[SunsetBengal]

(05-31-2021, 08:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Agreed. The 4th round really made our draft honestly. I’m actually super high on Smith, and if he can put on enough weight and develop into a starter within a couple years that pick is going to be a home run.

That would make a pair of us.  I'm not so concerned with him intentionally adding weight, as I sort of feel like he's going to naturally fill out that massive frame.  I think that the key with Smith is going to simply be not to throw him out there, before he's ready.  We have a good OL coach to work him out of a few bad habits.  As he finishes growing, he should be technically sound, and ready to fill in when needed.

[SuperBowlBound!]

(05-02-2021, 07:40 AM)Older Than You Too Wrote: ... Zac Failure is a spergtard loser. I'll be glad when he, Lou and Duke are gone. Sadly, Duke isn't going anywhere, but at least the other two will be gone after this season with 4-6 wins.

Funny how people cite the Ketchup Man. He hasn't been relevant since the Corey/Rudi era.

Can't imagine being a fan of a team that you want to lose to get rid of the coach. Wouldn't you be better off if ZT, Lou and Duke Tobin plan worked and the Bengals had a successful season that we can build on? Why hate just to hate? Plenty of time to be upset if they actually do have a subpar season. 

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(05-31-2021, 05:43 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Less about person more about waiting till end of 4th and passing twice.

This kind of hits me like being upset the Patriots passed on a QB with their first 6th round pick and taking Tom Brady with their second one. Who cares what the order is if you got someone you liked?

[Older Than You Too]

(05-31-2021, 01:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I want better then a Marvin type, agree that Taylor has been terrible so far. I just have to hope being so young is what has held 
him back and not having the players to fit his scheme. Bottom line is this is Taylor's make or break year, make the Playoffs or see
you later pal. It is Pollack, not pollock, he ain't a fish. It isn't a coincidence that the Dallas line fell apart after Pollack left and PA 
took over. Coaching matters. Pollack is a good coach, both PA and Turner are not.

Youth is what Zac has on his side. Lou is the coach who has had the most help in FA here and has sucked it up. Wanted this guy 
gone after last season and think this is our biggest mistake in keeping him around.

Shula had youth on his side as well. Pollock/Pollack, a typo doesn't change the fact he's a bit over-rated around here. Yes, he's good, but he's not the shroom whisperer people on this forum claim he is. As for the Dallas line after Pollack left, there were several significant injuries in 2018 that hampered that line. Jonathan Cooper missed 12 games and their center was out for the year. And then you add past his prime Piano man. Sure, Pollack was a good steward for two years, but was it the injuries and PA that worsened that line, or Pollack's absence? The world may never know.

(05-31-2021, 11:00 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: Can't imagine being a fan of a team that you want to lose to get rid of the coach. Wouldn't you be better off if ZT, Lou and Duke Tobin plan worked and the Bengals had a successful season that we can build on? Why hate just to hate? Plenty of time to be upset if they actually do have a subpar season. 

Want? LOL, I know he's gonna lose because he's terrible. I don't want him to be a loser, I never did, but what has he shown us? If he wins a playoff game this year. Hell, if he wins the division, I'll change my mind. After three years (this season) and what he's been given from the inept FO, that should be the standard. I see people saying "if he has 7-8 wins that's a W." No, that's not a W. He was brought in to, sooner rather than than later, get us over the Marvin hump. Not to get us a (maybe) playoff appearance when Burrow is 27 years old.

[Essex Johnson]

(05-31-2021, 06:23 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Only 3 o-linemen were taken between the Bengals 1st 4th round pick and their last (C- Drew Dalman, T- Dan Moore and T- Josh Ball). Sample and Shelvin provided much greater value than any of those 3, IMO.

James Hudson (who was taken before the Bengals 1st pick in the 4th) and D'Ante Smith were the best of the bunch in the 4th round when you consider overall talent and potential. 

The Bengals were able to land one of them, and still build the d-line as well with 2 very good additions. I feel like the 4th round played out extremely well.

As I stated Oline was top priority.. if you want to put Dline top go ahead but i don;t know anyone that has said that.. my point is simple  i rather not gamble  with who would be there at end of 4th.. if Smith was that high on Bengals.. pick him higher.. we have been down this road of 4/5 round picks Oline before.. should I say Jordan.... and who is to say the d-line prospects would not have been there either.. 

This year will tell if the Bengals did right, we don;t need projects we need starters if we don;t see major improvement by our Carman and Smith  i would say we failed with the approach we took. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-01-2021, 04:00 AM)Older Than You Too Wrote: Shula had youth on his side as well. Pollock/Pollack, a typo doesn't change the fact he's a bit over-rated around here. Yes, he's good, but he's not the shroom whisperer people on this forum claim he is. As for the Dallas line after Pollack left, there were several significant injuries in 2018 that hampered that line. Jonathan Cooper missed 12 games and their center was out for the year. And then you add past his prime Piano man. Sure, Pollack was a good steward for two years, but was it the injuries and PA that worsened that line, or Pollack's absence? The world may never know.

Want? LOL, I know he's gonna lose because he's terrible. I don't want him to be a loser, I never did, but what has he shown us? If he wins a playoff game this year. Hell, if he wins the division, I'll change my mind. After three years (this season) and what he's been given from the inept FO, that should be the standard. I see people saying "if he has 7-8 wins that's a W." No, that's not a W. He was brought in to, sooner rather than than later, get us over the Marvin hump. Not to get us a (maybe) playoff appearance when Burrow is 27 years old.

People are claiming Pollack is the shroom whisperer? Lol

All I know is we are improved in the trenches from last year significantly which was our biggest weakness last season and has 
been our biggest weakness since Taylor has got here. We will see how many wins we get this year with this improvement and 
if Taylor cannot make the Playoffs and win a game I say move on. I am predicting Playoffs and a win this year. We will see who
is right. I really like this roster, no excuses for Taylor if he cannot win at least 10 games this season.

[Older Than You Too]

(06-01-2021, 02:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: People are claiming Pollack is the shroom whisperer? Lol

All I know is we are improved in the trenches from last year significantly which was our biggest weakness last season and has 
been our biggest weakness since Taylor has got here. We will see how many wins we get this year with this improvement and 
if Taylor cannot make the Playoffs and win a game I say move on. I am predicting Playoffs and a win this year. We will see who
is right. I really like this roster, no excuses for Taylor if he cannot win at least 10 games this season.

Yeah. People are/were acting like he's gonna whip everyone into shape when he couldn't in 2018 or the last two years in New York.

I also wouldn't say we're significantly better in the trenches. Reiff is average (37th overall starting Tackle out of 64). Definitely better than Hart, but that's not saying much.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-01-2021, 06:04 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: Yeah. People are/were acting like he's gonna whip everyone into shape when he couldn't in 2018 or the last two years in New York.

I also wouldn't say we're significantly better in the trenches. Reiff is average (37th overall starting Tackle out of 64). Definitely better than Hart, but that's not saying much.

Reiff gave up less sacks and had less penalties last year than both Thuney and Orlando Brown.

Big time upgrade at RT especially in pass protection.

Carman is going to be a great Guard for is if he can stay healthy and he can also play OT in a pinch.

Spain and XSF with an entire Offseason to prepare will be much better, Jonah will be better as last season was his first playing 
in the NFL. Trey Hill and D'Ante Smith improved our depth over Redmond and Fred Johnson. This along with Pollack I expect us
to be significantly better.

Not even mentioning Reader being healthy and adding Ogunjobi, Hendrickson, Ossai, Shelvin, Sample, Hubert to the DL with 
our new DL coach in Hobby. We just disagree, if we can stay healthy we will be much better IMO.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-01-2021, 06:04 PM)Older Than You Too Wrote: Yeah. People are/were acting like he's gonna whip everyone into shape when he couldn't in 2018 or the last two years in New York.

I also wouldn't say we're significantly better in the trenches. Reiff is average (37th overall starting Tackle out of 64). Definitely better than Hart, but that's not saying much.

But 2018 was the best year our o-line has had in at least the last 5-10 years?

We had our best yards per carry since 2000. I mean, people do realize that the o-line blocks for the run game just as much as with the pass game, right?

We also gave up our fewest sacks in any year since 2015.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(06-01-2021, 07:06 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: But 2018 was the best year our o-line has had in at least the last 5-10 years?

We had our best yards per carry since 2000. I mean, people do realize that the o-line blocks for the run game just as much as with the pass game, right?

We also gave up our fewest sacks in any year since 2015.

All true — and the Bengals started off the season 4-1. Unfortunately the Red Zone offense was less than stellar. This trend is even worse in the Zac era.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-01-2021, 07:06 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: But 2018 was the best year our o-line has had in at least the last 5-10 years?

We had our best yards per carry since 2000. I mean, people do realize that the o-line blocks for the run game just as much as with the pass game, right?

We also gave up our fewest sacks in any year since 2015.

Alright Shake, that is what I am talkin' about brother. 

I would also argue this is a much more talented OL for Pollack to work with than what we had in 2018.

Jonah has great technique and this will be his 2nd year starting, Spain has had success in the past in the NFL, same with XSF,
Hopkins and Reiff. Carman, Adeniji, Trey Hill and D'Ante Smith are all talented and great for molding with their size and attributes
for Pollack to work with.

(06-01-2021, 07:36 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: All true — and the Bengals started off the season 4-1.  Unfortunately the Red Zone offense was less than stellar.  This trend is even worse in the Zac era.

This definitely needs to change, need to get much better in the Red Zone and with the deep balls.