2021 Offseason - Overall Thoughts

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(05-07-2021, 02:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree on the part of us not knowing how this will turn out. Who knows, all I know is that I knew ADG would take time to 
adapt to the NFL as a rookie. I was right. I knew Wilson would be a solid pick, I was right. I knew Og was a shitty pick, I was
right. I knew Bates would be a great pick and I was right. I don't like to toot my own horn but I am not always wrong and to 
act like Carman is some punk is idiotic to me. Same with Ossai who was a 2nd rounder in my opinion with crazy talent.

No kool-aid here. Just calling it like it is. You are calling both Carman and Ossai shit or at least better than spit.

You might need to drink some kool-aid...

Do you lack reading comprehension skills or are you inherently dishonest?

No one is saying Ossai or Carman are bad players. Just unproven. One was a reach in the second that is going to have to learn a new spot. One is a former LB who moved to EDGE last year. A little light for an NFL edge but with great athleticism. But still a noob at his position. And he plays for Lou. So I will temper my enthusiasm some.

There is some distance between saying someone is crap (which I did not do), and saying they are the bestest pick EV-ER! And totally AWESOME! (Which is what you are doing). It isn't one or the other, it is more like a sliding scale/continuum type deal. Get it?

And people would likely take you more seriously if you could correctly identify what conference Clemson plays in. You weren't right about that, for certain.

[DesertBengal]

My long winded opinion on the 2021 offseason so far.

Free Agency:
I like some of the additions we made, even though I don’t we improved much with some of the moves.  The addition of Henrickson cancels out the loss of Lawson.  The addition of Awuzie and Hilton cancel the loss out the loss of WJ3 and M. Alexander.  I would have liked the FO to make a stronger push for a starting caliber experienced guard like Feiler or Zeitler.  Not landing one of those 2 put extra pressure on the draft, especially since we’re still sitting on a lot of cap space.  Overpaying a little to land one of those 2 guards would have been financially possible.  I still have my fingers crossed for a free agent veteran LB and WR.


Draft:
I’m happy with the Chase selection and like the value of the trade back in the 2nd round.  I understand the Carmen has positional versatility, but given the gaping hole at Guard, I think it would have been better to get a player that is a pure guard of a player IOL experience and can be plug and play on the interior o-line without the added uncertainty of having a player transition from tackle to guard. The draft was solid for building the trenches and getting a kicker that can hopefully be with the team for the next decade.  

Especially given the 2 extra 4th round picks I would have liked to see the Bengals double dip at WR.  Chase is great, but the depth behind Boyd, Higgins and Chase could be improved.


Pressure on Frank Pollack:
The entire fanbase was ecstatic to have turner ousted and replaced with Frank Pollack.  I think Frank pollack has a great deal of pressure on him. There was already the expectation that he improves what we got out of our existing OL talent on the roster, while simultaneously transitioning them to a wide-zone blocking scheme.  

Then in the draft he got 3 OL prospects that all need some form of development – transitioning Carmen from T to G and hopefully getting him ready to start on day one and developing D’Ante Smith and Trey Hill.  The verdict on the Chase Vs. Sewell debate and the overall grade for this draft hinges on improvements in the O-line, which relies on Carmen becoming an average guard in an offseason and the development of Smith into a tackle.

That is a lot of pressure and expectations on Frank Pollack.  I hope he is up to it.  But also, are we fans expecting too much from him…


Unleash the Offense:
We will finally get to see Zach unleash his 3 WR set offense and see what how good it really is.  In 2019, AJ was unexpectedly out for the whole season and ZT had to roll with Boyd, Ross, Tate and Erickson.  Then in 2020, ZT had Boyd, Higgins and the ghost of AJ Green (along with a terrible o-line).  So, we are yet to see the full potential of Zac Taylor’s offense.

I for one, am extremely excited to see the offense unleashed now that he has the pieces in place to properly run it.


Coaching:
Zac should rightfully be on the hot seat this season.  But given the relationship with Burrow, value in keeping the offensive scheme consistent, and the rebuilding on offense that has needed to happen since he took over, I’m ok with him being kept around for this season.  

However, I think Lou should have been shown the door.  He doesn’t seem to be able to get the most out of his players, his system seems ineffective and leading players into the wrong place at times, and he doesn’t seem like he is able to connect and build relationships with the players.  The last bit is of course speculation on my part, but over his 2 years here, he ineffectively communicated roster changes leading to disgruntled players.  There hasn’t been defensive free agents of ours that have seemed keen to come back and continue to play for him.  And I haven’t seen any of the defensive players ever speak out publicly in support of him or say anything positive.  

Since we are stuck with him for at least this season, I sincerely hope that he can improve the defense.  He has been given a lot of pieces in free agency and the draft over the past couple years to fit his “system”, now anything less than a big step forward would be disappointing to me.


Excitement:
I'm damn excited for the upcoming season and seeing how everything unfolds.  September can't get here fast enough.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-07-2021, 07:06 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Do you lack reading comprehension skills or are you inherently dishonest?

No one is saying Ossai or Carman are bad players. Just unproven. One was a reach in the second that is going to have to learn a new spot. One is a former LB who moved to EDGE last year. A little light for an NFL edge but with great athleticism. But still a noob at his position. And he plays for Lou. So I will temper my enthusiasm some.

There is some distance between saying someone is crap (which I did not do), and saying they are the bestest pick EV-ER! And totally AWESOME! (Which is what you are doing). It isn't one or the other, it is more like a sliding scale/continuum type deal. Get it?

And people would likely take you more seriously if you could correctly identify what conference Clemson plays in. You weren't right about that, for certain.

I think I will put you on ignore before I get pissed off.

You lost all my respect with this post, I admitted my mistake. I watched Clemson beat on the SEC so much I forgot they were 
in the ACC. BTW you will be the only poster I have ever put on ignore, congratulations. I love the Carman and Ossai picks, sorry.

[fredtoast]

Little late to the show, but I hate to start a new thread just for my offseason evaluation.

DEFENSE

CB... I Waynes returns 100% healthy then we will be better off than last year.  Free-agent trade of Jackson and Alexander for Hilton and Awuzie was about even.  I think we may have lost more than we gained, but not enough to make a big difference.  And theoretically those guys would be #2 and #3 instead of #1 and #2.

Safety... I really thought we would see more 3 safety sets last year, but Shawn Williams only played 86 snaps on defense.  So we can't really consider him a loss at all.  Set here with Bates and Bell.

LB... We had to give these young guys a year to grow.  That was last year.  If these guys don't show improvement then we will be shopping for new LBs next year.  So far I have seen some evidence these guys may be good.  Logan Wilson only played 343 snaps, but he looked very good for a third round rookie.  Davis-Gaither was a fourth round pick from a small college, but he looked decent in 314 snaps.  Germain Pratt played very well over the last four games of 2019.  Then in 2020 he racked up 89 tackles despite playing less than two thirds of the snaps on defense (686).  That was 4th on the team, but I believe he was the second leading tackler on third down behind only Vonn Bell.   I have a theory that LB play depends more on coaching than any other defensive group.  It is all about making split second reads and reacting properly.  So hard for me to judge what we really have here.

DE...  Bengals came out ahead on Hendrickson-for-Lawson if for no other reason than Lawson's terrifying injury history.  Hendrickson is also bigger than Lawson and can be more of a traditional 4-3 DE.  Hubbard is a very good DE.  But we had zero depth behind those two.  I am the guy always saying you can't count on third and fourth round picks to be any good as rookies, but we desperately need immediate production from both Ossai and Sample.  Not a good situation to be in but no 4 win team is going to be able to completely rebuild its roster in just one season.

DT...  If Reader and Ogunjobi can stay health then this will be by far the most improved position on the team.  Both reader and Ogunjobi are young.  If they can both just produce like they did in 2019 we will have one of the best DT duos in the league.  Look at where they ranked among all DT/NTs that year


................Reader.......Ogunjobi
Tackles.......10th (52).... 11th (50)
OB Hits........ 5th (13)....  5th (13)
TFL.............16th (6).....  3rd (10)
Sacks..........26th (2.5)..   8th (5.5)

We are thin behind these two, and, again, are in the position of needing immediate production form our 4th round pick (Shelvin).  But when we have both Reader and Ogunjonbi on the field our DEs will suddenly look a lot better.  Their sack numbers will go up a lot if the QB can't just step up in the pocket.


OFFENSE

QB,,,  Set here.  I'd be shocked if Burrows knee was any kind of a big problem this year

RB... I really like our talent here with Mixon, Williams, Perine, and Chris Evans.

WR... Great top 3.  Huge drop off after that.  I look for us to add a veteran cut from another team.   I never agreed with the crowd who thought Auden Tate was a great WR, but he should be serviceable as a #4.

TE...  If Uzomah stays healthy he finishes in the top 16 among TEs in receptions and yards.  Sample is a good blocker and will be a very good #2 TE.  No stars to put us near the top of the league at this position group, but far from the weakness some people claim it to be.

OL...  Still the biggest question about this team. RT is the only position where I don't have some big concerns.  Jonah's injury history has me really spooked.   Trey was just an average to above average C before the injury and he was not hurt until January of this year.  I have serious concerns about him being available or effective this year.  I really like Jackson Carman, but there is always concern when a second round pick is forced to start as a rookie.  A lot of people are high on Spain, but there was plenty of film on his play last year and we were able to re-sign him for league minimum.  Su'a-Filo  was a back up at Dallas and he has missed almost half of his games (23 of 48) over the last three years.  Still tons of questions.



COACHING

This is by far the biggest problem this team faces.  None of the HC/OC/DC have any history of being good anywhere at any level above position coach.  I often point out that our O-line gave up a lot of pressure because they could not deal with blitzes and line stunts, but at the same time our defense did not come up with any effective blitz schemes to make up for our complete lack of pressure from the D-line.  Our 2 minute defense was helpless.  On offense our passing schemes were not getting players open consistently.


CONCLUSION

If we get really lucky with injuries this year we should have the talent to be competitive.  To me it is all about the coaching.  I am not saying this is the type of roster that should be racking up playoff wins, but with good coaches it could be a playoff team.  Especially if Burrow shows a lot of improvement this year.  Really good play at the QB position can turn an average roster into big winners.

Sounds kind of negative, but I will end on a positive note.  If this team does win we don't have to worry about the window slamming shut quickly.  This team is will be pretty young across most of the roster.

[SladeX]

I like the move they made to get extra picks. Depth at T worries me.

I would have liked this offseason better had we made on more vet OL signing, or

Had we addressed WR with the vet many here wanted (name escapes me atm), made the same moves we made 2nd round and on, and drafted sewell I would feel much more confident about the OL.

[Luvnit2]

(05-07-2021, 06:04 PM)EasyPeasy Wrote: I haven't said anything negative about Carman. I'm just correcting some gross errors and misstatements about his Clemson teams' supposed SEC Championships. 

I have tried to stay silent, but can't. The Big Ten used to be an elite football conference, now it is the SEC far above #2 conference and so on. What has been special about the Big Ten the last 2 or 3 years?

1. OSU is only team consistently top 5. After that, Michigan and MSU programs on the demise. Penn State on demise. Wisconsin is not elite nor is Indiana, Nonwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois. Minn. or Rutgers. Overall Big Ten is not churning out top 100 picks in the draft if you remove OSU. Clemson, LSU. Alabama and the SEC are.

I am not picking on OSU, but to act like the Big Ten is a huge upgrade over the ACC the past few years especially when ND played in the SEC in 2020 is wrong in my opinion. We have witnessed a lot of OSU OL and DL not fulfill their draft positions also. Price is just one of many.

[BengalsRocker]

(05-07-2021, 07:10 PM)DesertBengal Wrote: My long winded opinion on the 2021 offseason so far.

Free Agency:
I like some of the additions we made, even though I don’t we improved much with some of the moves.  The addition of Henrickson cancels out the loss of Lawson.  The addition of Awuzie and Hilton cancel the loss out the loss of WJ3 and M. Alexander.  I would have liked the FO to make a stronger push for a starting caliber experienced guard like Feiler or Zeitler.  Not landing one of those 2 put extra pressure on the draft, especially since we’re still sitting on a lot of cap space.  Overpaying a little to land one of those 2 guards would have been financially possible.  I still have my fingers crossed for a free agent veteran LB and WR.


Draft:
I’m happy with the Chase selection and like the value of the trade back in the 2nd round.  I understand the Carmen has positional versatility, but given the gaping hole at Guard, I think it would have been better to get a player that is a pure guard of a player IOL experience and can be plug and play on the interior o-line without the added uncertainty of having a player transition from tackle to guard. The draft was solid for building the trenches and getting a kicker that can hopefully be with the team for the next decade.  

Especially given the 2 extra 4th round picks I would have liked to see the Bengals double dip at WR.  Chase is great, but the depth behind Boyd, Higgins and Chase could be improved.


Pressure on Frank Pollack:
The entire fanbase was ecstatic to have turner ousted and replaced with Frank Pollack.  I think Frank pollack has a great deal of pressure on him. There was already the expectation that he improves what we got out of our existing OL talent on the roster, while simultaneously transitioning them to a wide-zone blocking scheme.  

Then in the draft he got 3 OL prospects that all need some form of development – transitioning Carmen from T to G and hopefully getting him ready to start on day one and developing D’Ante Smith and Trey Hill.  The verdict on the Chase Vs. Sewell debate and the overall grade for this draft hinges on improvements in the O-line, which relies on Carmen becoming an average guard in an offseason and the development of Smith into a tackle.

That is a lot of pressure and expectations on Frank Pollack.  I hope he is up to it.  But also, are we fans expecting too much from him…


Unleash the Offense:
We will finally get to see Zach unleash his 3 WR set offense and see what how good it really is.  In 2019, AJ was unexpectedly out for the whole season and ZT had to roll with Boyd, Ross, Tate and Erickson.  Then in 2020, ZT had Boyd, Higgins and the ghost of AJ Green (along with a terrible o-line).  So, we are yet to see the full potential of Zac Taylor’s offense.

I for one, am extremely excited to see the offense unleashed now that he has the pieces in place to properly run it.


Coaching:
Zac should rightfully be on the hot seat this season.  But given the relationship with Burrow, value in keeping the offensive scheme consistent, and the rebuilding on offense that has needed to happen since he took over, I’m ok with him being kept around for this season.  

However, I think Lou should have been shown the door.  He doesn’t seem to be able to get the most out of his players, his system seems ineffective and leading players into the wrong place at times, and he doesn’t seem like he is able to connect and build relationships with the players.  The last bit is of course speculation on my part, but over his 2 years here, he ineffectively communicated roster changes leading to disgruntled players.  There hasn’t been defensive free agents of ours that have seemed keen to come back and continue to play for him.  And I haven’t seen any of the defensive players ever speak out publicly in support of him or say anything positive.  

Since we are stuck with him for at least this season, I sincerely hope that he can improve the defense.  He has been given a lot of pieces in free agency and the draft over the past couple years to fit his “system”, now anything less than a big step forward would be disappointing to me.


Excitement:
I'm damn excited for the upcoming season and seeing how everything unfolds.  September can't get here fast enough.

Great post!  You pretty much summed up how I feel about moves and the state of the team.  

[yang]

(05-06-2021, 02:02 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Ossai, Sample, and Shelvin are mid round picks (3rd/4th) with potential. None are going to be starters. They all will make the team. Those are depth guys. Perhaps they develop into starters or remain solid depth guys, or perhaps they never pan out. 

Do you recall ADG lighting things up last year? I don't. Even Wilson only had flashes. 

Carman was a reach who most had going in the 3rd (or 4th). He is being asked to play a new position. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. 

All these guys are unproven. That is a fact. Our OL hit rate has been pretty low lately (Price, Ogbeuhi, Fisher, Jordan, etc) and those guys were all rated higher than Carman save for Jordan.

Look, I find all you kool-aid drinkers hillarious. I mean, sure, I guess it is possible most of these hit and turn into studs, but that is somethibg that has not happened yet. Just go back and look at our draft classes. 

The last Bengals draft picks to make the Pro-Bowl (for us) were AJ and Andy in 2011. And Andy was an injury replacement. 2010 was excellent (Gresham, Dunlap, Geno). But 2-3 starters + 1-2 depth guys is a good as we ever do.

Chase is a legit stud. Carman will start because we have no RGs worth spit. We'll see how he does. McPherson will start. The others have some potential but are depth pieces for now. I like the defensive guys more (Ossai, Sample, Shelvin). They upgrade our depth, I think. But our DL was the worst in the league last year (as was the O-line). 

It’s funny on Twitter when people post horrible takes like this people just ban them.   

[yang]

There have been enough bad takes about the offensive line but I’ll defend Carmen once again, not that it will do any good for the haters. He dropped to the 2nd round because of a few issues; one being injury, which medical staff cleared. Some question is ability to handle speed rushers on the edge but admit he has the tools to be an all pro guard. Most offensive line experts including Willie Anderson and Paul Alexander fully believe he can play tackle. He was measured with under 32.5” arms on his pro day. Paul Alexander measured him at 33 1/4”. Carmen was one of the top offensive line picks in the draft and has the physical tools and experience to be very good. Except for a few misfortunes he would have been a first round pick. Google and message board experts that don’t listen actual experts are just spewing bad takes. He was a steal where he was drafted.

I am old enough to remember a few months ago when their was a huge debate raging when Hobson suggested we needed to draft defense because we were bad at stopping the run and rushing the passer. He noted our division is loaded with some of the top running games in the NFL. An early mock Geoff had us taking a 2nd round corner. Looking back at the full offseason we came a long way and we have a lot to be thrilled. The last couple years we have attacked free agency like never before. We filled a lot of holes and then hammered the draft with 7 lineman/rushers, 4 on defense. That’s crazy! That’s awesome!

They took high character, high motor tough physical players. It is theme under Zach. He is building a culture and concept and effort that we have to support. How anyone not be enthusiastic about our offseason additions and the direction is mind boggling to me.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(05-08-2021, 03:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I think I will put you on ignore before I get pissed off.

You lost all my respect with this post, I admitted my mistake. I watched Clemson beat on the SEC so much I forgot they were 
in the ACC. BTW you will be the only poster I have ever put on ignore, congratulations. I love the Carman and Ossai picks, sorry.

And you lost mine when you kept saying I called Carman & Ossai crap when I didn't.

The Clemson thing was just a cherry on top. No worries there. Honest mistake. Everyone makes them. 

But saying I said something I clearly did not say, that was not a mistake. That was intentional, and it ticked me off. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(05-07-2021, 07:10 PM)DesertBengal Wrote: My long winded opinion on the 2021 offseason so far.

Free Agency:
I like some of the additions we made, even though I don’t we improved much with some of the moves.  The addition of Henrickson cancels out the loss of Lawson.  The addition of Awuzie and Hilton cancel the loss out the loss of WJ3 and M. Alexander.  I would have liked the FO to make a stronger push for a starting caliber experienced guard like Feiler or Zeitler.  Not landing one of those 2 put extra pressure on the draft, especially since we’re still sitting on a lot of cap space.  Overpaying a little to land one of those 2 guards would have been financially possible.  I still have my fingers crossed for a free agent veteran LB and WR.


Draft:
I’m happy with the Chase selection and like the value of the trade back in the 2nd round.  I understand the Carmen has positional versatility, but given the gaping hole at Guard, I think it would have been better to get a player that is a pure guard of a player IOL experience and can be plug and play on the interior o-line without the added uncertainty of having a player transition from tackle to guard. The draft was solid for building the trenches and getting a kicker that can hopefully be with the team for the next decade.  

Especially given the 2 extra 4th round picks I would have liked to see the Bengals double dip at WR.  Chase is great, but the depth behind Boyd, Higgins and Chase could be improved.


Pressure on Frank Pollack:
The entire fanbase was ecstatic to have turner ousted and replaced with Frank Pollack.  I think Frank pollack has a great deal of pressure on him. There was already the expectation that he improves what we got out of our existing OL talent on the roster, while simultaneously transitioning them to a wide-zone blocking scheme.  

Then in the draft he got 3 OL prospects that all need some form of development – transitioning Carmen from T to G and hopefully getting him ready to start on day one and developing D’Ante Smith and Trey Hill.  The verdict on the Chase Vs. Sewell debate and the overall grade for this draft hinges on improvements in the O-line, which relies on Carmen becoming an average guard in an offseason and the development of Smith into a tackle.

That is a lot of pressure and expectations on Frank Pollack.  I hope he is up to it.  But also, are we fans expecting too much from him…


Unleash the Offense:
We will finally get to see Zach unleash his 3 WR set offense and see what how good it really is.  In 2019, AJ was unexpectedly out for the whole season and ZT had to roll with Boyd, Ross, Tate and Erickson.  Then in 2020, ZT had Boyd, Higgins and the ghost of AJ Green (along with a terrible o-line).  So, we are yet to see the full potential of Zac Taylor’s offense.

I for one, am extremely excited to see the offense unleashed now that he has the pieces in place to properly run it.


Coaching:
Zac should rightfully be on the hot seat this season.  But given the relationship with Burrow, value in keeping the offensive scheme consistent, and the rebuilding on offense that has needed to happen since he took over, I’m ok with him being kept around for this season.  

However, I think Lou should have been shown the door.  He doesn’t seem to be able to get the most out of his players, his system seems ineffective and leading players into the wrong place at times, and he doesn’t seem like he is able to connect and build relationships with the players.  The last bit is of course speculation on my part, but over his 2 years here, he ineffectively communicated roster changes leading to disgruntled players.  There hasn’t been defensive free agents of ours that have seemed keen to come back and continue to play for him.  And I haven’t seen any of the defensive players ever speak out publicly in support of him or say anything positive.  

Since we are stuck with him for at least this season, I sincerely hope that he can improve the defense.  He has been given a lot of pieces in free agency and the draft over the past couple years to fit his “system”, now anything less than a big step forward would be disappointing to me.


Excitement:
I'm damn excited for the upcoming season and seeing how everything unfolds.  September can't get here fast enough.

Great post. I largely concur with everything you said. I was really enthused for last season and that went splat, so not quite as pumped this year. I have little faith in ZT or Lou at this point. 

[thompson19osu]

My only concern to begin the season is the interior of the o-line, namely Price. He seems to get bull rushed so easily I’m afraid we may see pressure right up the gut. I’m hoping Hopkins can get in there early.

[impactplaya]

I think.the pressure is squarely on the coaches produce results this year.

FREE AGENCY
I think this off season the front office went looking for playmakers
And finishers on the defensive side.
When was the last time this defense had a edge guy finish with
10 sacks or more?
Pressures are nice but you have to put the QB in.the ground
With the ball. It demoralizes a drive. It makes the offense 1 dimensional....2nd and 7 turns into 3rd and 15 now with a sack
Not a pressure.
Hendrickson.Ogenjobi, and Hilton are known for putting QBs
On the ground.
Ricardo.Allen is a underated signing. Coming.from the NFC South
He has faced great WRs in practice and division rivals
Its seems commonplace to bash the FO for not signing Joe Thuney
Or Kevin Zeitler.
It takes 2 to tango in FA. There as to be legitimate mutual interest
At the right price.
Riley Reiff is a rock solid replacement for Hart. His resume speaks
For itself.
I would have like to have seen the front office add a proven LB
Like Justin Houston who can rush the passer and help mentor
These young pass rushers that were drafted.

DRAFT
I thought drafting Chase was a situation very few teams are allowed
To.do...that is being able to draft your franchise QBs favorite hook up in college. Its a very rare occurrence.
The Colts werent able to.draft Peerless Price after getting Manning
Doubling down on pass rushers like Sample and Ossai is just
Smart roster building.
Plus it tells lightweights like Hubbard " step your game up, you can
Be replaced"...let's not forget...Hubbard was drafted under Lewis.
I think.Evan McPherson.can be our Justin Tucker of the Ravens.
Automatic from 55 to 50 yds.

Its do or die for these coaches. Like I said neither coordinators have
Been able to put together back to back weeks of intelligent gameplans.
Hopefully Marion Hobby and Frank Pollack can turn these guys
In the trenches from cremepuffs to steamrollers

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-07-2021, 03:37 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Honestly, this is why I was so against the Chase pick and so on board with fix the line.

If Zac is determined to run it empty like that, you can't be "average" on the line.

Of course if you go empty all the time like that eventually your QB is going to get killed. Just can't be one dimensional and predictable.

Actually, the statistics show that the ball comes out faster in those formations and the pressure %s are lower than normal formations.  You have a to have WRs that can generate quick separation, and that is something that was significantly upgraded. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-07-2021, 07:06 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Do you lack reading comprehension skills or are you inherently dishonest?

No one is saying Ossai or Carman are bad players. Just unproven. One was a reach in the second that is going to have to learn a new spot. One is a former LB who moved to EDGE last year. A little light for an NFL edge but with great athleticism. But still a noob at his position. And he plays for Lou. So I will temper my enthusiasm some.

There is some distance between saying someone is crap (which I did not do), and saying they are the bestest pick EV-ER! And totally AWESOME! (Which is what you are doing). It isn't one or the other, it is more like a sliding scale/continuum type deal. Get it?

And people would likely take you more seriously if you could correctly identify what conference Clemson plays in. You weren't right about that, for certain.

Dude, Nate is in the HOF, and his reference to Clemson beating up on the SEC was in head to head matches.  Clemson has been a consistent, top 3 team that only has ONE loss over that time where they got beat by a fairly significant score.  That was against the legendary Burrow-led 2019 Championship team.  

Moving to the Bengals:  I was down on the Ossai pick because I REALLY wanted Spencer Brown with that pick, but I put a lot of stock in Nate's opinion on Ossai.  He isn't being a homer.  If you don't believe that, listed to the most recent podcast of Dan Hoard's "Bengals Booth Podcast", titled "Moving on up".  He had Greg Cosell on and the guy RAVED about Ossai's effort and athleticism, exactly what Nate described to me and others on here.

Stay classy, Isaac.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-08-2021, 04:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Little late to the show, but I hate to start a new thread just for my offseason evaluation.

DEFENSE

CB... I Waynes returns 100% healthy then we will be better off than last year.  Free-agent trade of Jackson and Alexander for Hilton and Awuzie was about even.  I think we may have lost more than we gained, but not enough to make a big difference.  And theoretically those guys would be #2 and #3 instead of #1 and #2.

Safety... I really thought we would see more 3 safety sets last year, but Shawn Williams only played 86 snaps on defense.  So we can't really consider him a loss at all.  Set here with Bates and Bell.

LB... We had to give these young guys a year to grow.  That was last year.  If these guys don't show improvement then we will be shopping for new LBs next year.  So far I have seen some evidence these guys may be good.  Logan Wilson only played 343 snaps, but he looked very good for a third round rookie.  Davis-Gaither was a fourth round pick from a small college, but he looked decent in 314 snaps.  Germain Pratt played very well over the last four games of 2019.  Then in 2020 he racked up 89 tackles despite playing less than two thirds of the snaps on defense (686).  That was 4th on the team, but I believe he was the second leading tackler on third down behind only Vonn Bell.   I have a theory that LB play depends more on coaching than any other defensive group.  It is all about making split second reads and reacting properly.  So hard for me to judge what we really have here.

DE...  Bengals came out ahead on Hendrickson-for-Lawson if for no other reason than Lawson's terrifying injury history.  Hendrickson is also bigger than Lawson and can be more of a traditional 4-3 DE.  Hubbard is a very good DE.  But we had zero depth behind those two.  I am the guy always saying you can't count on third and fourth round picks to be any good as rookies, but we desperately need immediate production from both Ossai and Sample.  Not a good situation to be in but no 4 win team is going to be able to completely rebuild its roster in just one season.

DT...  If Reader and Ogunjobi can stay health then this will be by far the most improved position on the team.  Both reader and Ogunjobi are young.  If they can both just produce like they did in 2019 we will have one of the best DT duos in the league.  Look at where they ranked among all DT/NTs that year


................Reader.......Ogunjobi
Tackles.......10th (52).... 11th (50)
OB Hits........ 5th (13)....  5th (13)
TFL.............16th (6).....  3rd (10)
Sacks..........26th (2.5)..   8th (5.5)

We are thin behind these two, and, again, are in the position of needing immediate production form our 4th round pick (Shelvin).  But when we have both Reader and Ogunjonbi on the field our DEs will suddenly look a lot better.  Their sack numbers will go up a lot if the QB can't just step up in the pocket.


OFFENSE

QB,,,  Set here.  I'd be shocked if Burrows knee was any kind of a big problem this year

RB... I really like our talent here with Mixon, Williams, Perine, and Chris Evans.

WR... Great top 3.  Huge drop off after that.  I look for us to add a veteran cut from another team.   I never agreed with the crowd who thought Auden Tate was a great WR, but he should be serviceable as a #4.

TE...  If Uzomah stays healthy he finishes in the top 16 among TEs in receptions and yards.  Sample is a good blocker and will be a very good #2 TE.  No stars to put us near the top of the league at this position group, but far from the weakness some people claim it to be.

OL...  Still the biggest question about this team. RT is the only position where I don't have some big concerns.  Jonah's injury history has me really spooked.   Trey was just an average to above average C before the injury and he was not hurt until January of this year.  I have serious concerns about him being available or effective this year.  I really like Jackson Carman, but there is always concern when a second round pick is forced to start as a rookie.  A lot of people are high on Spain, but there was plenty of film on his play last year and we were able to re-sign him for league minimum.  Su'a-Filo  was a back up at Dallas and he has missed almost half of his games (23 of 48) over the last three years.  Still tons of questions.



COACHING

This is by far the biggest problem this team faces.  None of the HC/OC/DC have any history of being good anywhere at any level above position coach.  I often point out that our O-line gave up a lot of pressure because they could not deal with blitzes and line stunts, but at the same time our defense did not come up with any effective blitz schemes to make up for our complete lack of pressure from the D-line.  Our 2 minute defense was helpless.  On offense our passing schemes were not getting players open consistently.


CONCLUSION

If we get really lucky with injuries this year we should have the talent to be competitive.  To me it is all about the coaching.  I am not saying this is the type of roster that should be racking up playoff wins, but with good coaches it could be a playoff team.  Especially if Burrow shows a lot of improvement this year.  Really good play at the QB position can turn an average roster into big winners.

Sounds kind of negative, but I will end on a positive note.  If this team does win we don't have to worry about the window slamming shut quickly.  This team is will be pretty young across most of the roster.

This is good stuff, specifically in relation to the DTs.  I remember that Cleveland was disappointed in Ogunjobi's 2020, but he was asked to play more NT than his traditional 3T and that was where he had more struggles.  He has been kind of overshadowed by guys like Hendrickson but he could be a very critical part of this team's success.  Plus, he is only on a one-year deal, so I think effort won't be an issue.  

[*SHRacerX*]

One final point about the upcoming season: I think the young LBs last year took a lot of the blame for the pathetic play on the interior of the defensive line. I am glad they got the playing time, but those guys we had to bring in off the street were awful and the LBs had guys on them in a lot of the running plays. A stronger interior defensive line makes for a more productive LB corps as well.

[Waite Hoyt]

On paper I like what they have done this off season.

Really believe we have wrapped up a major overhaul of the roster and are ready to move forward. The last two years was about turning over the roster and that has been accomplished.

Offensively we added Chase, Reiff and Carmen. Couple those with a healthy Hopkins, Burrow, Mixon, CJ and Williams and you have to like our offense. Add in a normal preseason to prepare and I think you’ll see a group that puts up lots of points.


Defensively we get back Reader, Wayans from injuries. Added Hendrickson, Hilton, some nice pieces in the draft.

We also added a reliable kicker with range.

While I know many want to grade Taylor on his first 2 years won/lost record but that is misleading. Those rosters hadv very little chance to make playoffs playing in a division with 3 playoff teams, a injury depleted roster and a ownership looking to move on from high priced aging vets. Taylor accomplished that goal and has rebuilt the team and it is this year that we can begin to honestly expect to see improvement in the win column. We have turned over this roster in 2 years. For that I give him a A.

[TJ528]

(05-09-2021, 08:40 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I have tried to stay silent, but can't. The Big Ten used to be an elite football conference, now it is the SEC far above #2 conference and so on. What has been special about the Big Ten the last 2 or 3 years?

1. OSU is only team consistently top 5. After that, Michigan and MSU programs on the demise. Penn State on demise. Wisconsin is not elite nor is Indiana, Nonwestern, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois. Minn. or Rutgers. Overall Big Ten is not churning out top 100 picks in the draft if you remove OSU. Clemson, LSU. Alabama and the SEC are.

I am not picking on OSU, but to act like the Big Ten is a huge upgrade over the ACC the past few years especially when ND played in the SEC in 2020 is wrong in my opinion. We have witnessed a lot of OSU OL and DL not fulfill their draft positions also. Price is just one of many.

On the DL??? You do realize Joey Bosa, Nick Bosa, Chase Young....all 3 have came out of OSU in the past 5 years.  Then look at the DB's that have came out of Ohio State.  

Have there been some stinkers on OL from Ohio State, YEP.  However, historically Ohio State's OL draft picks are dominant.