Carman At Guard- Consulted Willie Anderson

[CoachGeorge]

(05-20-2021, 04:20 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So people not in the organization knew the players were “whining incessantly”? And is it even possible to whine “incessantly” for only seven weeks?

Also, your quote was from Alexander, not Columbo.

7 games doesn’t really match reality now does it? From the time he was hired, through OTA, training camp and preseason is a little short of a few games in my book. After too also counts because that’s what people tend to do. Heck, people on this board are whining about stuff that happened decades ago.

Yes, the quote was from PA. The “alluding” part reflects what I took from what Columbo said in the rest of the link. YMMV. Collectively I’m pretty sure my thoughts match what I heard in case you’re a Dallas fan or just some kind of PA hater.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-20-2021, 06:39 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: 7 games doesn’t really match reality now does it? From the time he was hired, through OTA, training camp and preseason is a little short of a few games in my book. After too also counts because that’s what people tend to do. Heck, people on this board are whining about stuff that happened decades ago.

Yes, the quote was from PA. The “alluding” part reflects what I took from what Columbo said in the rest of the link. YMMV. Collectively I’m pretty sure my thoughts match what I heard in case you’re a Dallas fan or just some kind of PA hater.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2018/10/30/what-the-decision-to-fire-o-line-coach-paul-alexander-and-promote-marc-colombo-came-down-to-for-the-cowboys/%3foutputType=amp

Quote: "Some guys have picked it up immediately, some guys it takes a little longer, some guys haven't wanted to mess with it,'' Alexander said.

Were the guys who picked it up immediately part of the players whining incessantly?

[SladeX]

(05-20-2021, 02:08 PM)PDub80 Wrote: It has leaked out, via ... if I recall... the Hear That Podcast Growlin that Paul Dehner Jr & Jay Morrison do explicitly on the Bengals, that Marvin adamantly wanted Jonathan Allen and was furious at the Ross pick.

He also mentioned in a recent interview something to the tune of: "I wanted big linemen for the AFC North, but the front office wanted Ferraris." In response to a roster or draft question that hinted around the Ross draft. This all came out in bits and pieces over the last year or so.

And no side is always correct. There are instances where Mike Brown did what the coaches wanted instead of what he thought was right... Justin Smith over Drew Breese. Dailton over Kaepernick are 2 morw famous instances where Brown did what the coaches asked.

All I'm saying with any of this is that teams... ALL TEAMS... pull and value input from multiple sources inside and outside of their organizations. No one has a perfect system... and coaches don't always get what they want. Scouts and front office people (Tobin) overrule or outweigh them all the time in the draft. Those guys do wayyyyy more research on prospects than a coach can over the course of a year.

I thought Brown wanted Mallet?

[PDub80]

(05-21-2021, 08:23 AM)SladeX Wrote: I thought Brown wanted Mallet?

You are correct. I typed Kaepernick not thinking. It was Mallet. I will edit!

[PDub80]

(05-20-2021, 04:13 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Can you give me the definition of “fact”?

Sure, right after you give me the definition of "Beyond a reasonable doubt". If it's good enough to convict someone for murder, it's good enough for me. Are you the type of person that needs a smoking gun to be convinced of something?

If the Bengals beat reporters/writers reporting from multiple sources inside of PBS that Marvin DID NOT want Ross and wanted the Bengals to draft Allen - and no one from the club came out to dispute this, coupled with Marvin's treatment of Ross and Mavin's own comments in a Nov 17, 2020 article from The Athletic written by Dan Pompei titled "To Marvin Lewis, Wisdom Has Come Through Recognizing What's Important", which covers Marvin's exit and life after football don't qualify as "Beyond a reasonable doubt" I also need you to give me the definitions of the word "dense".

Other than it not going with your what you thought was reality, what evidence do you have against anyone covering the Bengals' journalistic integrity as to where you wouldn't believe their reports? <--------------- Anyone NOT directly employed by the team, that is.

[*Synric*]

(05-17-2021, 07:55 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: 1. PA teaches independent hands (outside high, inside low). Dallas uses the two hand punch.  Dallas’ players whined incessantly about it, didn’t take to it in any way.  

Paul also believe independent hands will extend your playing career because it does put as much force on the joints as 2 handed punch. Seeing how Big Whit is still playing at a very high level I can almost believe him.

I believe Bill Callahan also teaches independent hands and Pollack was his assistant for a couple years. I do know Dillon Radunz and Samuel Cosmi both favor the 2 handed punch and Jackson Carman uses independent hands along with some other advances hand techniques. Jackson biggest issue is footwork.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-21-2021, 11:39 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Sure, right after you give me the definition of "Beyond a reasonable doubt". If it's good enough to convict someone for murder, it's good enough for me. Are you the type of person that needs a smoking gun to be convinced of something?

If the Bengals beat reporters/writers reporting from multiple sources inside of PBS that Marvin DID NOT want Ross and wanted the Bengals to draft Allen - and no one from the club came out to dispute this, coupled with Marvin's treatment of Ross and Mavin's own comments in a Nov 17, 2020 article from The Athletic written by Dan Pompei titled "To Marvin Lewis, Wisdom Has Come Through Recognizing What's Important", which covers Marvin's exit and life after football don't qualify as "Beyond a reasonable doubt" I also need you to give me the definitions of the word "dense".

Other than it not going with your what you thought was reality, what evidence do you have against anyone covering the Bengals' journalistic integrity as to where you wouldn't believe their reports? <--------------- Anyone NOT directly employed by the team, that is.

Wouldn’t it have been easier to write a fact is something which is proven to be true? And if what you claimed was fact then you would be able to provide evidence to corroborate your claim which would shut me the F up instead of this beyond a reasonable doubt song and dance BS.

[CoachGeorge]

(05-21-2021, 07:22 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2018/10/30/what-the-decision-to-fire-o-line-coach-paul-alexander-and-promote-marc-colombo-came-down-to-for-the-cowboys/%3foutputType=amp

Quote:
"Some guys have picked it up immediately, some guys it takes a little longer, some guys haven't wanted to mess with it,'' Alexander said.

Were the guys who picked it up immediately part of the players whining incessantly?

Apples meet oranges. You do realize that because you pick something up doesn’t imply that you like it, respect it or think that is the ‘right’ way to do something, right?

Pretty weird comment to get hung up over.

[SladeX]

(05-21-2021, 10:25 AM)PDub80 Wrote: You are correct. I typed Kaepernick not thinking. It was Mallet. I will edit!

I only remember because I wanted Mallet as well. One helluva talent wasted, in the end.

[BengalsRocker]

(05-22-2021, 04:31 AM)SladeX Wrote: I only remember because I wanted Mallet as well. One helluva talent wasted, in the end.

I wanted Mallet too.

The throws he made on his pro day were fantastic.

Too bad he just didn't have it between the ears.

Apparently he was a dope.

Good thing Jay Gruden stayed away from him.

[fredtoast]

(05-22-2021, 04:31 AM)SladeX Wrote: I only remember because I wanted Mallet as well. One helluva talent wasted, in the end.

He is still playing in The Spring League which is supposed to be a "developmental" league.  Why would they have 33 year old players in a "developmental" league?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-22-2021, 08:24 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I wanted Mallet too.

The throws he made on his pro day were fantastic.

Too bad he just didn't have it between the ears.

Apparently he was a dope.

Good thing Jay Gruden stayed away from him.

Same, thought Mallet was a great talent, that is the thing in the end that just doesn't really matter.

Dalton was the better QB cause he is smart.

[samhain]

(05-19-2021, 08:54 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: we also stopped supplying him with talent.. I mean we gave him Stacy Andrews and expected magic

The front office gave Alexander the exact guys he wanted.  He was they guy banging the drum for Ogbuehi and Fisher in 15.  Let's not pretend that Paul was an innocent bystander in the epic downfall of the o-line.  He was also the run game coordinator when Jeremy Hill mysteriously went from being a guy that looked like he was going to mow down the league at the end of his rookie year to being a tap dancer for the remainder of his time here.  The run blocking was bad even before the 2 2015 draft picks were inserted into the lineup.  That's with Whitworth, Boling, Zietler, and Smith starting, ie one of the most highly regarded groups the team has ever had up front.  

PA got cute, plain and simple.  He changed his approach to nuanced technique and broad teaching of multiple positions to all players.  He also started drafting athletes over real o-linemen.  Most of the guys he'd had success with were big mauling monsters who could win in the run game.  Why he went away from that, I'll never know, but it set this team back for whats been a 6-year running clock now.  

Yes, PA was once a great OL coach.  At one point he was one of the league's best.  Yes, his opinion still has great value, particularly if he's learned anything from the experience that got him fired here.  Yes, he's a better coach than Jim Turner and it's not even close.  No, his failure was not someone else's fault.  He owns it.  He had as much clout with the Brown family as any coach they've ever employed.  He was here through multiple coaching regimes.  The fact that they still rely on hs opinion heavily for draft eval makes that point obvious.  Paul done f-ed up all on his own.

[SladeX]

(05-22-2021, 08:24 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I wanted Mallet too.
The throws he made on his pro day were fantastic.
Too bad he just didn't have it between the ears.

Apparently he was a dope.

Good thing Jay Gruden stayed away from him.

(05-22-2021, 01:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Same, thought Mallet was a great talent, that is the thing in the end that just doesn't really matter.
Dalton was the better QB cause he is smart.

Mallet has a good mind for the game. But when it come to life, he was a dope. I would say Dalton turned out to be the better QB because he was a good man, and smarter about life, and thus able to handle the money and such. Mallet clearly did NOT handle himself well. He had a golden opportunity to learn from the GOATs and he blew it.

(05-22-2021, 12:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He is still playing in The Spring League which is supposed to be a "developmental" league.  Why would they have 33 year old players in a "developmental" league?

Either he has drug addled delusions of making it back, or maybe he just loves the game. My take on the guy is choice B.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-23-2021, 12:01 PM)SladeX Wrote: Mallet has a good mind for the game. But when it come to life, he was a dope. I would say Dalton turned out to be the better QB because he was a good man, and smarter about life, and thus able to handle the money and such. Mallet clearly did NOT handle himself well. He had a golden opportunity to learn from the GOATs and he blew it.


Either he has drug addled delusions of making it back, or maybe he just loves the game. My take on the guy is choice B.

Agree.

[Joelist]

(05-23-2021, 11:15 AM)samhain Wrote: The front office gave Alexander the exact guys he wanted.  He was they guy banging the drum for Ogbuehi and Fisher in 15.  Let's not pretend that Paul was an innocent bystander in the epic downfall of the o-line.  He was also the run game coordinator when Jeremy Hill mysteriously went from being a guy that looked like he was going to mow down the league at the end of his rookie year to being a tap dancer for the remainder of his time here.  The run blocking was bad even before the 2 2015 draft picks were inserted into the lineup.  That's with Whitworth, Boling, Zietler, and Smith starting, ie one of the most highly regarded groups the team has ever had up front.  

PA got cute, plain and simple.  He changed his approach to nuanced technique and broad teaching of multiple positions to all players.  He also started drafting athletes over real o-linemen.  Most of the guys he'd had success with were big mauling monsters who could win in the run game.  Why he went away from that, I'll never know, but it set this team back for whats been a 6-year running clock now.  

Yes, PA was once a great OL coach.  At one point he was one of the league's best.  Yes, his opinion still has great value, particularly if he's learned anything from the experience that got him fired here.  Yes, he's a better coach than Jim Turner and it's not even close.  No, his failure was not someone else's fault.  He owns it.  He had as much clout with the Brown family as any coach they've ever employed.  He was here through multiple coaching regimes.  The fact that they still rely on hs opinion heavily for draft eval makes that point obvious.  Paul done f-ed up all on his own.

Yep! PA messed up here all by himself. But that does not mean he suddenly is worthless as a consultant (and a lot of teams use him as one). His time is up as an OL coach/coordinator but he still has valuable insights. So does Big Willie - why is the idea that the team consulted with the two of them an issue? 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-21-2021, 09:01 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: Apples meet oranges. You do realize that because you pick something up doesn’t imply that you like it, respect it or think that is the ‘right’ way to do something, right?

Pretty weird comment to get hung up over.

You know what I think is weird? You’re literally the only person in the world who I’ve found who has reported this alleged incessant whining. Which would suggest they were able to shut their whining up around the media long enough for it never to be reported. So, at most, maybe you’ve got intermittent, secretive whining? Hardly incessant. Is it?

[Shake n Blake]

(05-17-2021, 07:55 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: Now that the o-line is older and more susceptible to injury, PA’s methods would serve this version of Dallas much better, but that ship has soared.

Seems the ship has sailed on PA coaching with any NFL team.

(05-20-2021, 02:49 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: I know this from multiple sources. Long-time coaching connections in the A&M program told me this a week or so after he was let go. PA has alluded to this in both his Twitter account and his Zoom clinics. Finally the words of his replacement confirmed as such.

“”Colombo, 40, is finding a balance between returning to familiar techniques from years past while not completely erasing what the team has been doing under Alexander. Alexander is known for a high-hand, low-inside hand technique that emphasized linemen becoming a stabber/striker over a puncher, which some of the players didn't want to "mess with," Alexander said recently.””

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2018/11/05/we-know-it-wasn-t-right-inside-what-marc-colombo-hudson-houck-are-already-doing-to-fix-cowboys-offensive-line/

One more point, the “game” has not passed PA by. Quite the contrary, he is spot-on with the trends in O-line play and amongst O-line coaches and players (including our beloved Willie Anderson and Andrew Whitworth) he remains enormously respected. Pity that some on this board loudly proclaim PA was garbage.

If he's so spot on with the trends and such a brilliant mind, why does that not jive with the results?

1. Pathetic rushing efficiency by his lines for almost 2 decades.
2. Spotty at best pass blocking for the last decade.
3. All the players he pushed for in the draft recently were some of the worst linemen in franchise history.
4. He was swiftly fired by Dallas.
5. Now out of the league

The actual facts paint a far less rosy picture of Mr Piano Man.

(05-21-2021, 08:23 AM)SladeX Wrote: I thought Brown wanted Mallet?

It was Mallet. I believe it was Jay Gruden who said Mikey wanted Mallet.

Then when Kaepernick had his SB run, Mikey leaked a quote that he wanted Kaep.

Then when all the ish hit the fan with Kaep, it went back to being Mallet.

[PDub80]

(05-24-2021, 03:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Seems the ship has sailed on PA coaching with any NFL team.


If he's so spot on with the trends and such a brilliant mind, why does that not jive with the results?

1. Pathetic rushing efficiency by his lines for almost 2 decades.
2. Spotty at best pass blocking for the last decade.
3. All the players he pushed for in the draft recently were some of the worst linemen in franchise history.
4. He was swiftly fired by Dallas.
5. Now out of the league

The actual facts paint a far less rosy picture of Mr Piano Man.


It was Mallet. I believe it was Jay Gruden who said Mikey wanted Mallet.

Then when Kaepernick had his SB run, Mikey leaked a quote that he wanted Kaep.

Then when all the ish hit the fan with Kaep, it went back to being Mallet.

A lot of hyperbole and conjecture in this post. Links and data would be helpful. You hate Mike Brown. We get it.

[*Synric*]

(05-24-2021, 03:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If he's so spot on with the trends and such a brilliant mind, why does that not jive with the results?

1. Pathetic rushing efficiency by his lines for almost 2 decades.
2. Spotty at best pass blocking for the last decade.
3. All the players he pushed for in the draft recently were some of the worst linemen in franchise history.
4. He was swiftly fired by Dallas.
5. Now out of the league

The actual facts paint a far less rosy picture of Mr Piano Man.

Facts.

Quote:In 2015 Alexander was featured on the cover of Sports Illustrated in its article: “The Mozart behind the Bengals 6-0 record”.   In 2017, Pro Football Focus ranked his offensive line #1 statistically in pass protection over the 11 year life of their measure; also in 2017, he was once again recognized by Sports Illustrated as the top offensive line coach in the business and named to their “Dream Team Coaching Staff”.